Warning new boaters...prepare for winter.

[Guest]

Should a calorifier be drained if the boat is being left over winter...?

It depends where it is. Some are located under the boards covering a cruiser stern making them potentially at risk.

 

Ours is under a bunk inside the boat. We do not drain ours but we don't leave our boat for weeks on end over the winter.

[Doorman]

Just so some new folk get the idea of what you might be in for. Preparation is therefore important.

 

 

 

Stunningly good photo's Dean,

 

Can't wait for winter after seeing those!

[Kaidapip7]

A big thank`s for this guys. I`ll be spending my first winter on board this year.

I bought the boat in march and have been c,c`ing since the end of April.I was planning on continuing throughout the winter but chickened out and have now booked into a marina for three months.November, December and January.I hope this will get me through the worst of it.

[Guest]

A big thank`s for this guys. I`ll be spending my first winter on board this year.

I bought the boat in march and have been c,c`ing since the end of April.I was planning on continuing throughout the winter but chickened out and have now booked into a marina for three months.November, December and January.I hope this will get me through the worst of it.

 

Spend some time boating though - it can be a great time to go boating....

[mrsmelly]

 

Spend some time boating though - it can be a great time to go boating....

Its the very best time of the twelve months boating season indeed.

 

Tim

[matty40s]

Is it cold in winter?

[Doorman]

Is it cold in winter?

Lol, never heard that question before!

[brian1042]

I quite like the idea of one of those ..... any advice on which one to buy?

 

I got a Meaco 10L. It is now advertised by a different supplier (the place I got it does not seem to do that one now) at the same price I paid in January this year, with free p&p. For me it has the right mix of performance (as in drawing water out of the air effectively and efficiently and not too noisy) and size (I wanted something that would be meaty enough to do the job and which could also be stored reasonably easily). Your mix requirements may of course be different from mine.

 

My boat has a wooden top and the amount of water that came out was unbelievable. This has proved itself to be one of my best buys if not the best (I have also made many poor ones, but that is another story - maybe a new thread).

Edited September 22, 2013 by brian1042

[matty40s]

Following the advice on this thread and the other one informing me that the boating season had ended, I have taken all precautions immediately.

 

 

you can also see that my neighbour is wrapped up warm too.

Edited September 22, 2013 by matty40s

[Kiwidad]

Yes, it is far to cold to be out boating. So I am sitting in the beer garden at The Navigation, Gnosall, having a cider :-)

Edited September 22, 2013 by Kiwidad

[brian1042]

Bit of advice from me - Go to ikea, go to bargain corner and you can almost always get the slats that go under their beds. We got ours for £5.

 

Lay it out under the bed on the narrowboat and it will stop condensation.

 

 

Try and change your plywood board to a conventional slatted bed frame and that bedroom damp will be much reduced.

 

This is interesting.

 

Is it the same for a GRP hull? I am ssuming yes, as it is all trapped damp air.

 

I don't think I'll have a problem getting slats but not sure I can get them for £5 - hope so. Edit: Just looked on the Ikea website - £10 or £15 normal price, so even at that I think it is reasonable. If I get a bargain corner price even better!

 

Under my bed is bilge area. I kind of balk at replacing the ply with slats and having those gaps with horrible old bilge below - though I see the sense. Are other people happy with doing that? Could I drill some holes in the ply to let some air through and put slats on top of the ply (leaving gaps where the drilled holes are)? Would that be pointless and should I just bite the bullet?

Edited September 22, 2013 by brian1042

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

 

This is interesting.

 

Is it the same for a GRP hull? I am ssuming yes, as it is all trapped damp air.

 

I don't think I'll have a problem getting slats but not sure I can get them for £5 - hope so. Edit: Just looked on the Ikea website - £10 or £15 normal price, so even at that I think it is reasonable. If I get a bargain corner price even better!

 

Under my bed is bilge area. I kind of balk at replacing the ply with slats and having those gaps with horrible old bilge below - though I see the sense. Are other people happy with doing that? Could I drill some holes in the ply to let some air through and put slats on top of the ply (leaving gaps where the drilled holes are)? Would that be pointless and should I just bite the bullet?

You don't take up the ply!

 

You put the slats on top of the ply....

[brian1042]

You don't take up the ply!

 

You put the slats on top of the ply....

 

 

Thank you. The reason I asked is that Dave_P's post indicated 'change' from ply to slats.

 

Edit

 

Having thought about it I don't really get the reasoning for adding the slats. On a bed there is lots of room for air circulation under the slats. Slats on ply would not allow for that. Apologies for not grasping this, but what is the benefit of adding slats on ply?

Edited September 23, 2013 by brian1042

[junior]

Following the advice on this thread and the other one informing me that the boating season had ended, I have taken all precautions immediately.

you can also see that my neighbour is wrapped up warm too.

I hope you removed the contents of that BBQ before you lit it!

[keble]

People tend to buy dehumidifiers because they have a lot of condensation. Tackling condensation should initially be about prevention. Simply sucking the damp air out to reduce condensation does not get to the root cause of the problem. The cause of the problem is usually a combination of 'cold spots' on your boat combined with poor air circulation. If you have condensation on your windows, get some of that secondary heat-shrink sheeting which will insulate your boat much better and therefore much reduce condensation. As a bonus, your boat will be warmer too, saving you heating costs. Condensation also forms against the hull, especially under your floor. When you come to lay a new floor, put a good thick layer of underfloor insulation down. You will amazed at the difference this makes. Damp under your bed and on the bottom of the mattress is usually due to poor circulation. For some reason, a lot of boat builders think it's ok to stick a mattress strait onto a plywood board, allowing no airflow under the mattress. Beds in houses are never like this. Try and change your plywood board to a conventional slatted bed frame and that bedroom damp will be much reduced.

 

A well insulated and designed boat should not have serious damp/condensation problems.

 

Oh, and make sure your air vents aren't all blocked up with dust and fluff!

We did the window 'heat-shrink sheeting' last winter, hardly used the dehumidifier at all!

It is absolutely the most cost-effective fix you can do IMHO.

 

We used Tesa Moll kit, £11.30 for 4x 1.5 metres. Easy to apply, left the kitchen and shower windows alone though!

Took it down in April

I'll be putting new film up soon.

[mkn777er]

 

 

 

Have a cassette bog, if you are frozen in you can if need be remove the cassette and empty it at elsan point via car etc, I dont know many people strong enough to carry their boat to a pumpout station i its frozen in.

 

 

Tim

 

Sometimes, just sometimes, when I read threads on this forum I have those laugh out loud moments, and this was one of them!

 

Thanks Tim!

[FidoDido]

Drain down the combi-boiler if you have one. I've got a Paloma, which has a drain plug on the bottom - always do that when leaving for a few days and the weather reports suggest potential freeze, along with opening taps.

 

For those who regularly leave their boats for a few days (I live on mine in the week, but not at weekends), probably the worst bit is getting the boat warm again.. This is especially true when work takes you all over the bloomin place, and you arrive at the boat at 10.30 at night and its been sat for days and is 3 degrees C inside throughout.

 

I've therefore looked at all sorts of coal, wood, ecologs etc

 

For quick heat, Ecologs are very good - they light quickly, and heat the body of the stove up quickly too. I like the "Tiger Tim" ones - you can buy them in boxes of 10 for about 8-9 quid at CPL distributors, and the wrapper is flammable. Easy way to start the fire (though not that economical - just use when you want to heat teh boat quickly).. The Homefire Ecologs are a second best, and are available very cheaply at B+M - £10 for 30Kg. They are a bit more variable, but again you can light without kindling if you want. After 20 mins of burning these, the stove is HOT (you can hear the back boiler boiling!), stick on some coal of your choice, and wait for it to glow orange, then put on some more coal, wait 10 mins, turn the air vents down. I can heat a 70ft boat in about 1.5 hours (Morso at one end, bed at the other) to an acceptable temperature to go to bed.

 

For good hot burn, use Phurnacite, Ecoal or Maxiheat. Phurnicite and ecoal are also good for overnight, maxiheat isn't.

 

Best coal for leaving when you go to work for 14+ hours is Ecoal50. It burns pretty slow, doesnt burn as hot as phurnacite or ecoal, but is the longest lasting I've tried. (and I've tried just about every brand youve heard of!). If you are aboard more often than me, it would probably be the best choice - it lasts ages, and doesnt overheat. I found I get through it at a slower pace than other types, so the price overall is probably as good as a cheap smokeless.

 

Must be said that phurnacite and Ecoal are both very flexible - although expensive. For my lifestyle, cheap smokeless just is a waste of money, however, if you can attend the stove more, then I like stoveglow best amongst the cheaper stuff... its a (seemingly random) mix of phurnacite, excel, taybrite and homefire ovals, all of which are more "premium" in price than stoveglow, so its good value for money.

Edited September 23, 2013 by FidoDido

[thecynic]

Having spent my first winter on the boat last year. the only problem I found was the bedroom was cold at night. no central heating but the stove done a good job in the rest of the boat. Thinking about a eco fan this year. but a lot of money. is it worth it. Comments please.

 

No need! Pop your pyjamas by the stove before going to bed.

[Doorman]

Drain down the combi-boiler if you have one. I've got a Paloma, which has a drain plug on the bottom - always do that when leaving for a few days and the weather reports suggest potential freeze, along with opening taps.

 

For those who regularly leave their boats for a few days (I live on mine in the week, but not at weekends), probably the worst bit is getting the boat warm again.. This is especially true when work takes you all over the bloomin place, and you arrive at the boat at 10.30 at night and its been sat for days and is 3 degrees C inside throughout.

 

I've therefore looked at all sorts of coal, wood, ecologs etc

 

For quick heat, Ecologs are very good - they light quickly, and heat the body of the stove up quickly too. I like the "Tiger Tim" ones - you can buy them in boxes of 10 for about 8-9 quid at CPL distributors, and the wrapper is flammable. Easy way to start the fire (though not that economical - just use when you want to heat teh boat quickly).. The Homefire Ecologs are a second best, and are available very cheaply at B+M - £10 for 30Kg. They are a bit more variable, but again you can light without kindling if you want. After 20 mins of burning these, the stove is HOT (you can hear the back boiler boiling!), stick on some coal of your choice, and wait for it to glow orange, then put on some more coal, wait 10 mins, turn the air vents down. I can heat a 70ft boat in about 1.5 hours (Morso at one end, bed at the other) to an acceptable temperature to go to bed.

 

For good hot burn, use Phurnacite, Ecoal or Maxiheat. Phurnicite and ecoal are also good for overnight, maxiheat isn't.

 

Best coal for leaving when you go to work for 14+ hours is Ecoal50. It burns pretty slow, doesnt burn as hot as phurnacite or ecoal, but is the longest lasting I've tried. (and I've tried just about every brand youve heard of!). If you are aboard more often than me, it would probably be the best choice - it lasts ages, and doesnt overheat. I found I get through it at a slower pace than other types, so the price overall is probably as good as a cheap smokeless.

 

Must be said that phurnacite and Ecoal are both very flexible - although expensive. For my lifestyle, cheap smokeless just is a waste of money, however, if you can attend the stove more, then I like stoveglow best amongst the cheaper stuff... its a (seemingly random) mix of phurnacite, excel, taybrite and homefire ovals, all of which are more "premium" in price than stoveglow, so its good value for money.

 

Hi Fido,

 

Have you ever considered a diesel central heating boiler and some rads? Given your working hours, a decent one either on a timer switch or controlled from your phone would work a treat. Nick Norman who posts on here travels down from Scotland to his boat in the Midlands and prior to getting there he activates the heater from his phone. Nice and toasty by the time he opens those cabin doors!

 

He also turns it on before leaving the pub but can never be sure where his boat is by closing time, hic.

 

Mike

[FidoDido]

Doorman

 

A diesel fired boiler with phone control would be marvellous.. But I havent got the £££. I do have an Alde boiler, which I can use to heat the rads up. Cant / wouldnt convert that to phone control though, as wouldnt want to leave gas on.

 

I've used the Alde twice in 2 years. Its the cost of the gas that puts me off using it. Having said that, I've only gone through 3 gas cylinders in 2 years - perhaps I could afford to use it a little more!!

 

The Morso is connected to the rads too. With gravity feed, it heats the rads but not the calorifier. If I put the Alde pump on (but not the boiler), in principle it heats the calorifier, but in practice the calorifier (unless engine has heated it up), acts as a nice heat-sink for the back boiler, and even after 8 hours the rads arent very warm..

 

Rads get too hot to touch with a few hours of orange-glowing phurnacite in the stove, and the pump turned off.

 

If and when the Alde pops its clogs, I'll definately change it for a diesel fired boiler.

Edited September 23, 2013 by FidoDido

[Doorman]

Doorman

 

A diesel fired boiler with phone control would be marvellous.. But I havent got the £££. I do have an Alde boiler, which I can use to heat the rads up. Cant / wouldnt convert that to phone control though, as wouldnt want to leave gas on.

 

I've used the Alde twice in 2 years. Its the cost of the gas that puts me off using it. Having said that, I've only gone through 3 gas cylinders in 2 years - perhaps I could afford to use it a little more!!

 

The Morso is connected to the rads too. With gravity feed, it heats the rads but not the calorifier. If I put the Alde pump on (but not the boiler), in principle it heats the calorifier, but in practice the calorifier (unless engine has heated it up), acts as a nice heat-sink for the back boiler, and even after 8 hours the rads arent very warm..

 

Rads get too hot to touch with a few hours of orange-glowing phurnacite in the stove, and the pump turned off.

 

If and when the Alde pops its clogs, I'll definately change it for a diesel fired boiler.

 

 

I understand about the £££££'s Fido, they are very expensive for such a small piece of kit.

 

We had an Alde boiler on our first boat and the previous owners had two long haired retrievers. During the home journey from where we bought her, we would wake up each morning with booming headaches until I checked the air intake and eyeglass at the base of the Alde boiler. The flame was a lovely yellow colour, ideal for creating carbon monoxide gas and was due to the fact that loads of dog hairs were clogging the intake! It was damn expensive to run too.

 

With regards to the heat sink calorifier, please see my earlier post #98 on how to deal with this issue. With a bit of outlay you can avoid the calorifier taking the heat out of your back boiler and warm the rads without having the stove set at Blast Furnace heat output levels.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Doorman

[FidoDido]

Doorman

 

I do have a valve which shuts off flow from the back boiler to the calorifier. Downside it its before the pump. Its there presumably so you can heat the water with the Alde without heating the radiators, if you so wished.

 

The thermostatically controlled valves sound like a very good idea. Essentially the same as in a car engine cooling circuit, I guess.

[canals are us?]

When I bought my boat at the end of November last year it was my first winter aboard.

 

I inherited a faulty diesel bubble stove and installed a temporary solid fuel antique one which wasn't powerful enough to heat the whole boat length. I had to wait 6 weeks for my new sfs to be made. I was chilly in my end bedroom and had ice on the inside of the window.

 

As soon as the new stove was installed it is toasty all over. In the cold weather I leave the bedroom door open. The stove heats 2 rads and hot water.

 

My winter prep is keep the stove going 24/7 and it's lovely being warm and cosy indoors and looking outside at the snow.

 

 

James

[Doorman]

(FidoDido)

The thermostatically controlled valves sound like a very good idea. Essentially the same as in a car engine cooling circuit, I guess.

 

 

Not quite, they are electrically controlled two way valves that are actuated in two different ways.

 

Normally closed, until a variable setting thermostatically controlled switch energises them to open at a set temperature. Both postioned on the feed and return circs to the calorifier via the central heating boiler and engine feeds. A normally closed/normally open relay that takes its feed from the central heating circuit and engine control switch, is incorporated in the electrical circuit, so that once the central heating boiler or engine is turned off, they revert back to their closed circuit position, energising the valves to close and thus containing the heat in the calorifier, whereas under normal circumstances the heated water would eventually be lost, either in the cooling radiators, or worse still, via the keel cooling tank. Two very good heat sinks.

 

As previously mentioned, these valves not only help contain the heated water in the calorifier, but also allow both the central heating boiler and the engine to come up to operating temperature much quicker than normal, given that they are not trying to heat the calorifier during the initial warm up process.

 

Hope this helps clarify the set-up.

 

Mike

Edited September 24, 2013 by Doorman