Good Boat Bad Boat?

[junior]

I just got an email from someone called Grant whom I don't know to my Hotmail, stating that there is a private television company making a documentary who want to speak to prospective boaters and was I interested? There is no way he can no me except from this forum. He also said that they had already spoken to lots of experienced boaters. Has anyone else been approached? Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

How would he have got your hotmail from here? As far as i know email address's are not public.

[alan_fincher]

Thanks to Rays post I now know it's a Pigeon Box and what it's for. I really like these, you know the pretty painted ones? Grant, if you're reading, can you cover the cost of one of these pretty paint jobs, its on my wish list. he he he!!! juuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding!!!

 

 

 

 

To whet your appetite:

 

 

Lovely though it may be, that isn't really a pigeon box is it?

 

Unless it is different from those I have seen it it a closed box, with a sealed bottom that will stand on a boat roof as am ornament, if you want it to.

 

But the fact it probably has a bottom it it, (and there is probably no hole in the boat roof either!), means it can never serve the useful purposes of a real pigeon box!

 

(OK now tell me yours does, and I'll feel suitably silly!....)

[Ally Charlton]

in response to old goat

 

OH MY LORD!!!!

 

BUT LET ME RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!

 

How can you disconnect the present from that past, the only reason that YOU HAVE A BOAT!!!!! on the inland waterways is because of it's HERITAGE!!!!!!!

Canal's would not exist if not for the working heritage.

 

I am a soon to be boater of today and I absolutely want to "festoon my vessel with a piece of brassware designed to soothe a working horse in it's travails"

I do not want my heritage to be in a dust covered museum. I AM PROUD OF IT!!!!!!

 

I want to pay through the nose for finely painted pigeon boxes that serve no boatman's cabin because it reminds me that they did.

 

Subject it to today's diesel smoke, it will survive.

[MtB]

 

How would he have got your hotmail from here? As far as i know email address's are not public.

 

True, but the previous version of the forum software before the upgrade a few months ago, DID list a personal email addy IIRC.

 

MtB

[Athy]

 

in response to old goat

 

OH MY LORD!!!!

 

BUT LET ME RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!

 

How can you disconnect the present from that past, the only reason that YOU HAVE A BOAT!!!!! on the inland waterways is because of it's HERITAGE!!!!!!!

Lardy Lard.

Just to recap as far as we've gone: you would like a boat suitable for living aboard, under 60 feet (quite right - have you ever tried steering and parking one that long?), with a pigeon box or two and a chuffy engine, for a price up to £40,000. It should possibly incorporate parts which have ambiguous names, but these are optional.

So, Ally, in which geographical area are you? Have you discovered places to view boats in that area? (Please don't say "Cornwall", it will only complicate matters). If you are in the Midlands or have access to same, Whilton Marina (on the A5) probably has the biggest stock of s/hand boats,. They will give you keys to them and let you ramble free-range amongst the boats. You don't have to buy from them but you will learn a lot about which features you like, and more importantly those which you don't, in a half-day visit.

 

PS did you pass the test on The Naming Of The Parts?

Edited August 1, 2013 by Athy

[RLWP]

I want to pay through the nose for finely painted pigeon boxes that serve no boatman's cabin because it reminds me that they did.

 

 

 

Well, perhaps. There are a lot of very fine, modern pieces that were never, ever found on old boats

 

Richard

[MtB]

I want to pay through the nose for finely painted pigeon boxes that serve no boatman's cabin because it reminds me that they did.

 

 

And getting my favourite nit-picker out, it's a 'back cabin'* not a 'boatman's cabin'. Who else would it have been for? Someone other than the boatman?

 

AND... a pigeon box would never have been fitted to a the back cabin. Pigeon boxes only came along with motors AIUI, and were fitted to ventilate and illuminate the engine 'ole.

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

*Or just 'the cabin' if on a working boat, when there are no other cabins.

[Athy]

Your points are well made, Mike - but in a modern boat with full-length superstructure there is perhaps a case for referring to a "boatman's cabin": it indicates that the back cabin has a certain layour, often with a drop-down bed, a small stove and other accoutrements, as opposed to just any old back cabin with a longitudinal bed and a wardrobe.

I have heard pigeon-boxes referred to as dog boxes - indeed, I recall that when we were having Trojan built our builder, Mel Davis, referred to them as such. Is there any difference (size? shape?) or is it perhaps a regional variation?

[johnthebridge]

Ally-not about your prospective boat I'm afraid, but I'd be interested to know more about your father. Do you know which canal companies he worked for? What boats he had? When did he finish on the cut? Any photos? Etc etc. Happy to respect any Data Protection stuff, or if you don't want to say anything on here I quite understand--tell me to mind my own business.

Thanks, John.

[MtB]

I have heard pigeon-boxes referred to as dog boxes - indeed, I recall that when we were having Trojan built our builder, Mel Davis, referred to them as such. Is there any difference (size? shape?) or is it perhaps a regional variation?

 

I think a dog box is a larger version of a pigeon box, for fitting over the forward cabin space on a fully converted boat. Larger, so bigger portholes can be fitted for light. Often used when exquisitely stylish portholes are fitted in the cabin sides instead of those bus window abominations people with less taste than us seem to demand. Aldebaran's dog boxes are an excellent example.

 

 

It also occurs to me that 'dog box' rolls from the tongue so much more easily than 'pigeon box', so Mel may just use the term to save the slight extra effort of saying 'pigeon box' all the time when discussing them.

 

MtB

 

 

(edit to insert a missing word!)

Edited August 2, 2013 by Mike the Boilerman

[Athy]

That would explain it: the one over Trojan's galley is appreciably bigger than the one over her engine room, so I guess I have one dog box and one pigeon box.

Makes sense, bein' as 'ow dogs are bigger than pigeons!

Edited August 2, 2013 by Athy

[MtB]

Yes, and did you know a REALLY big one is called a 'horse box'...?!

 

MtB

[Ally Charlton]

Oh Lord

 

just re read my last post

 

One really must remember ones own rule and not post whilst under the influence. I do get enthusiastic when tipsy don't I ?I!!! No offence intended

 

Athy,this is what I do every weekend for a couple of months now, look at boats, look at moorings, talk to folks but thanks for the advice and Im in Birmingham. and Id pass the naming of the pigeon box now.

 

Thanks for the correction with pigeon box. but as for boatmans cabin, everyone calls it boatman's cabin so I can be forgiven for that one. A few days ago a guy took me into his boatman's cabin (it's OK, it was all very proper and for educational purposes) and said "this is my boatman's cabin", so you cant blame me for getting that one wrong

 

Johnthebridge I'll PM you some stuff if your interested!

[Athy]

 

I do get enthusiastic when tipsy don't I ?I!!!

There was a certain zest and vigour in your mode of expression, yes, but I doubt if anyone minded, except perhaps our caprine colleague.

I had not realised that you had been dashing about visiting so many boats - though, as I was at university in Brum, I can fully understand someone's desire to dash away from the place at regular intervals. So doubtless you have visited Whilton, Crick and all the Midlands brokerages (Trinity Marina at Hinckley on the Ashby canal)?

I'm pleased to hear that The Naming Of The Pigeon Box went well; now there's The Naming Of The Back Cabin. While the other Mike (Boilerman) has a point, lots of people do call it a boatman's cabin. The expression NOT to use, and some do, is BMC as an abbreviation - because it is also a make of engine. So you could ask if a boat had a BMC and the broker might surmise that you wanted a boat with a marinised light van engine.

Good hunting this weekend!

Edited August 2, 2013 by Athy

[OldGoat]

 

There was a certain zest and vigour in your mode of expression, yes, but I doubt if anyone minded, except perhaps out caprine colleague.

I had not realised that you had been dashing about visiting so many boats - though, as I was at university in Brum, I can fully understand someone's desire to dash away from the place at regular intervals. So doubtless you have visited Whilton, Crick and all the Midlands brokerages (Trinity Marina at Hinckley on the Ashby canal)?

I'm pleased to hear that The Naming Of The Pigeon Box went well; now there's The Naming Of The Back Cabin. While the other Mike (Boilerman) has a point, lots of people do call it a boatman's cabin. The expression NOT to use, and some do, is BMC as an abbreviation - because it is also a make of engine. So you could ask if a boat had a BMC and the broker might surmise that you wanted a boat with a marinised light van engine.

Good hunting this weekend!

 

Heavens! I never expected that this forum would extend my word power, so thanks.

How could I possibly take exception to such a charming lady - pickled or not. She was obviously fascinated by the terminology, so I thought I'd elaborate on some of the historical aspects of boat building. All very tongue in cheek.

 

Sometimes good natured banter expands the topic - once can always ignore a post if it's too confrontational - other members please note.

[Ships Cat]

That's a good post, only a couple of things I'd challenge

 

 

I doubt most canal boats go up to 30% of their capacity.

 

 

Surely you should be looking for an engine that is easy to put back together. C/f alarm clocks

 

Richard

 

Easy, Richard, You video yourself taking it apart so you can watch it back to see how it goes back together. Then there should be no bits left over.

 

Once you've done it a few times, you pretty much won't need to look at yourself looking nervous on your cam screen.

 

Listers are easy, they're all the same, marine or agri, pretty much. However 20 years ago I might have wanted one for the spannering but I'm fed up with it now having been in aircraft engineering for so long and will want a rest when the kids off and I finally take the leap. I want an engine that starts on the button and stops when I tell it too, and is happy that I understand that a 6 monthly oil change is what EVERY internal combustion engine needs, regardless of it's age. (if it's been run)

 

I've taken car engines three times round the clock several times. Oil changes! And they weren't ALL Japanese.

 

Ref the work NB engines do - it should never be an engine's maximum unless you find yourself inadvertently heading for a weir ...

[RLWP]

Ref the work NB engines do - it should never be an engine's maximum unless you find yourself inadvertently heading for a weir ...

 

That wasn't what I meant. Boat engines are running at a small proportion of their possible power output. This is why, generally speaking, canal boats use about a litre of fuel an hour - no matter what the engine

 

Nothing wrong with Listers though. I spent a pleasant day today timing a JP4

 

Richard

 

MORE: I usually take my pictures when reassembling, they look so much better

 

Edited August 2, 2013 by RLWP

[alan_fincher]

 

How would he have got your hotmail from here? As far as i know email address's are not public.

 

 

 

True, but the previous version of the forum software before the upgrade a few months ago, DID list a personal email addy IIRC.

 

MtB

 

I don't think any version of the forum software has ever made an email address public (unless - possibly - you actually "checked" an option to allow it).

 

But as Ally Charlton has been a member a lot less time than the last forum software upgrade, I would have thought what any old version did was irrelevant in this case.

[Ange]

 

 

 

I don't think any version of the forum software has ever made an email address public (unless - possibly - you actually "checked" an option to allow it).

 

But as Ally Charlton has been a member a lot less time than the last forum software upgrade, I would have thought what any old version did was irrelevant in this case.

I know I was surprised once to receive an e-mail from a forum member in my personal e-mail account (perfectly friendly and not objectionable btw!) When I checked my settings I found I'd put my e-mail address in and not checked a privacy box when I registered.

 

Not sure if it's the same now but I think it was opt out rather than opt in with making your e-mail address public. Unless I did it inadvertently of course - which definitely isn't outside the realms of possibility!

[Ally Charlton]

just to clear the matter up, that guy didn't get my email from here, it was from a mooring that I'd registered interest with

[Ronniesonic]

by jove, your enthusiasm is delightful....

 

Anyway, I will attempt a 'Bizzard' approach to one question you have.......... The Engine & to chuff or not chuff?

 

Why not have the best of both worlds? Assume you purchase a boat with it's own engine room with a 'chuffer' in it. Bound to break down & cost you a fortune as you elude to being not 'that great at engines' Join the flippin club.

 

So, why not sell the 'chuffer' & fit a simple diesel like a BMC or another? Why you ask? Here's the plan.

 

Once simple diesel is fitted.......... (bloke now required for 1 day- ply with bacon sarnies, tea & traditional ale when completed);

Paint it a 'chuffer' colur & weld old chimney to main body of engine. Then to further disguise it get x2 6 inch woofers, placing one in the chimney & hide one in the engine room. Rig up a small amp. Then find a proper chuffer boat nearby & ask permission to recored the engine running inside. Record this sound & create a 'continuous' loop via a simple free download music app. Connect IPOD to amp & play......................... Bingo! Dependant on Amp size you can create a great sound!

Words of caution. If you take your boat to any historic show make sure the Amp is not switched on!!!!!!!! Some clever old swine will spot it's a fake.

 

Not quite Bizzard but an apprentice has to start somewhere............ (sorry Bizzard).

 

Alternatively, just get a 'chuffer' & run with it. Learn as you go & when required flutter eyelashes & wait for a knight to appear.

 

Joking apart, you are not alone......... I have just spent the last hour, before logging on, designing a roof box. I have decided on 9 inches to avoid knocking the top off .

Before that I was mentally designing a 47ft with a bed under tug deck, 8.5 ft back cabin, 6ft engine room, 100w solar with MPPT, porta potti with shower over, JD3, 12v TV, 1600 inverter, 4 side hatches & a recovered belfast sink, all in T&G with old BW livery & a 25inch draught. I have since changed my mind & think an off the peg 57 footer might be better.......... Nooooooo....

I used to think I was mad......... I am, but the difference is I now know lots of people that cannot get this boating malarky out of their heads.

 

Keep having fun & go with the force otherwise you will never make a decision.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Ronniesonic

[Ally Charlton]

thank you so much for the comments and support.

 

For me it's not really about making a decision about this or that feature on a boat, at the moment, but for the record

 

thus far, I want to spend £30-40k (not including a huge contingency fund!!!)) and would like:-

 

1) a chuffy engine, (I think a real "chuffy" (as in old) engine, is something I'll need to progress to, maybe boat number 2, in it's own room? (For the first time on canal world ventured into the vintage engine forum, whilst this scared the bejeezus outta me, my husband was glued) but I swear, the guy last weekend who showed me his 2 cylinder engine (ooer missus) said it was modern, it looked modern, and it chuffed!!!

2) a solid fuel stove

3) side hatches

4) traditional

 

that's it! thus far, anything else I can live with, don't need space, and still learning about sanitation, electrics, hulls, surveys.

 

I posted my original post as a future query, I actually think that getting a boat if you're not too fussy and get a sensible second, third, fourth opinion and an independent surveyor will be the easier part

 

I can't get a boat until I have somewhere to put it and that's proving the difficult part, so whilst I talk to as many people as I can and visit boatyards and brokers at this stage I mostly visit moorings, to try and secure one.

 

Someone told me a month ago that moorings are like gold dust, I now see what they mean. I cannot CC, it will not work for my lifestyle, trust me, I've thought about the possibilities of this a great deal.

 

What's going on with moorings. Somebody enlighten me. Weren't things supposed to improve with CRT?

[patty-ann]

Hi ally, I am also looking for a boat and having listened to all the "chuffin" engines that go through Foxton locks my "must have" changes on an almost daily basis. I'm in love at the minute with a Lister--god knows which one but I sat in an engine room whilst a boat owner explained all. Its a maze out there but I will find my boat, I thought of doing some sort of course to learn about engines as my poor ole dad R.I.P. in April--he was a Massey man but tractors not boats so not sure what he would say. I am hoping boats easier to control than tractors!

[Athy]

In that case, Patty, look for a boat with a Beta JD3 "tug" engine - it is a marinised slow-revving John Deere tractor engine!

[RLWP]

In that case, Patty, look for a boat with a Beta JD3 "tug" engine - it is a marinised slow-revving John Deere tractor engine!

 

Oh god...

 

Richard