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BSS Certificate

tommytelford

By tommytelford
in General Boating

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Tony Brooks Veteran II

Tony BrooksDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

Nothing as far as I know but you will not be able to licence the boat an din the event of a claim the lack might give the insurance company "room to manoeuvre".

 

Not sure where welding fits in the BSS unless it is a fuel or gas tank though.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Chalky Experienced

Chalky

Posted
Posted (edited)

If the hole is to the outside the boat then I don't see there being a problem. If the hole is into the cabin or water tank I think there would be. Worth asking one of the BSS inspectors on here.

Edited by Chalky
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Jerra Veteran II

Jerra

Posted
Posted

But not allowable under new BSS requirements - it must be welded or brazed.

Does anyone know the logic of this? Surely any gas tight solution should solve the problem and be safe?

 

N.B I am not saying the information is incorrect I am trying to get my head round the logic of the regulation.

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tommytelford Collaborator

tommytelford

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I have been told unofficially that if the glass fibre route is taken and the inspector is not totally sure that it has been repaired in this way that he can pass it. So, as you say, it is gas tight and completely safe and if it had been done 3 weeks ago and tested it would have been totally OK. Now it is suddenly unacceptable.

 

4 years ago when I had my boat examined I had to move the cooker in the presence of the engineer

only to find that there were not sufficient clamps holding the gas pipes and I had to spend ages finding ways to attach clamps to the metal hull. The other thing was that my fuel filters had plastic drain plugs which had to be replaced with metal ones.

 

Fair enough but my boat has been tested and passed on at least 4 previous occasions without comment and it now 27 years old without any great disaster befalling it because of these items. At the same time the need for exhausts to be lagged has been dropped, has anybody accidentally put a hand on a hot exhaust, it burns and it can scar, that is a real risk to health and you would be crazy not to have an exhaust lagged but not as far as the BSS is concerned

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Paul C Veteran II

Paul C

Posted
Posted

Would it be gas tight after a full gas bottle was inadvertently dropped on it?

 

Anyway, back to the original question: no BSS normally means no insurance, and neither would mean the conditions of the licence not met. It might be worth checking with your insurance company if they'd still cover you if the gas bottles were temporarily removed and the gas system out of action. The issues with a hole in the bottom are twofold: a) gas leaking into a lower space eg engine room or other, and b ) with a gas vent hole being close to the water line already, and another unintentional hole in the gas locker, then water coming into the gas locker could sink the boat.

 

I am guessing you'd have the work done by a boat yard, is it possible to moor there until its done?

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Radiomariner Rising Star

Radiomariner

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have been told unofficially that if the glass fibre route is taken and the inspector is not totally sure that it has been repaired in this way that he can pass it. So, as you say, it is gas tight and completely safe and if it had been done 3 weeks ago and tested it would have been totally OK. Now it is suddenly unacceptable.

 

4 years ago when I had my boat examined I had to move the cooker in the presence of the engineer

only to find that there were not sufficient clamps holding the gas pipes and I had to spend ages finding ways to attach clamps to the metal hull. The other thing was that my fuel filters had plastic drain plugs which had to be replaced with metal ones.

 

Fair enough but my boat has been tested and passed on at least 4 previous occasions without comment and it now 27 years old without any great disaster befalling it because of these items.

At the same time the need for exhausts to be lagged has been dropped, has anybody accidentally put a hand on a hot exhaust, it burns and it can scar, that is a real risk to health and you would be crazy not to have an exhaust lagged but not as far as the BSS is concerned

On the first point.for many years a hole in the gas locker that can leak into the boat interior has been a BSS failure. It was a failure also to have inadequate repairs to the locker. It is difficult to always determine the effectiveness of a repair, especially when cylinders are in the locker. It has come to light that many boats have heavily corroded or damaged lockers. The BSS change introduced in January is not a change in the requirements but a change in the checking procedure. The examiner has to examine the locker more carefully and if necessary ask for the bottles to be removed for him to do so. Bolted on or glued on patches have been unacceptable since at least 2002.

 

Regarding your fuel filters. If fitted in the engine space these as well as hoses have to meet flame resistance requirements, 2.5 minutes at a temp. of 600degC. Plastic screws at the base of many filters do not meet this requirement.This too has been a requirement for a long time. Gas pipes of course should be secure wherever they are, but I must add that there is no requirement for them to be secured to the steel hull.

 

The old requirement for lagging was not so much for protection to persons but to reduce fire risk to nearby combustables, one of which could be leaking or sprayed fuel. This had been discussed at great depth. Lagging on an exhaust pipe is of little protection against leaking fuel, and as there is another requirement for examiners to check nearby combustables for signs of heating, it has been dropped. The BSS advice on the subject is to lag exhausts where personell can come into accidental contact. Incidentally where exhaust pipes pass close to weed hatches I would personally recommend lagging. One thing for sure, when you want to get into that weed hatch in a hurry the pipe will still be hot!

 

Edited for typo's

Edited by Radiomariner
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tommytelford Collaborator

tommytelford

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below the gas locker is a redundant and sealed off water tank



Thanks to radiomariner for your very full answer, I fully endorse what you are saying but I think what I am saying is that testing standards seem to be very varied. What one examiner accepts as safe another will fail so it is very difficult for a normal owner who has the boat passed and assumes that all is well only to have a list of different problems the following test, all of which were looked at a passed previously, sometimes by several different engineers.

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Richard10002 Veteran II

Richard10002

Posted
Posted

I'm no expert, but if the hole is open to your "sealed" water tank, your water tank could be full of gas. Potentially a bomb waiting to go off when welding commences... Or before if there's a spark or something?

 

I'm guessing you've not got any gas bottles in the locker, and you're planning to use a hand pump to empty the water tank of gas - although I've no idea how you will know when it's empty?

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PaulG Experienced

PaulG

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I'm no expert, but if the hole is open to your "sealed" water tank, your water tank could be full of gas. Potentially a bomb waiting to go off when welding commences... Or before if there's a spark or something?

 

I'm guessing you've not got any gas bottles in the locker, and you're planning to use a hand pump to empty the water tank of gas - although I've no idea how you will know when it's empty?

I Had my BSS inspection done over the winter, and the floor of my gas locker was very rusty. The examiner said that he could not pass the boat as, due to the layer of rust, he could not see if there were any holes or not.

I had to get rid of all the rust (establishing, in the process, that there were no holes) and give it a coat of Hammerite before I got the new certificate.

Obviously I was brassed off having to do all this, but on the other hand, I could see the point. LPG is dangerous stuff.

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Radiomariner Rising Star

Radiomariner

Posted
Posted (edited)

below the gas locker is a redundant and sealed off water tank

 

Thanks to radiomariner for your very full answer, I fully endorse what you are saying but I think what I am saying is that testing standards seem to be very varied. What one examiner accepts as safe another will fail so it is very difficult for a normal owner who has the boat passed and assumes that all is well only to have a list of different problems the following test, all of which were looked at a passed previously, sometimes by several different engineers.

Redundant or not that sealed off water tank is a gas trap.

 

The BSS really do try to standardise all checks. That is why it is in the form of box ticking rather than expressing opinions as say a surveyor would. However, I think that although,most examiners stick stringently to the exact requirements and fail a boat where there is doubt, as they should do (Examiners can phone the office for advice on such matters), I suspect others, where there is doubt, possibly, having some sympathy for the owner, may wrongfully rationalise a bit. Also, like the case of a hole in the gas locker, defects can go unseen.

Not being permitted to examine my own boat, I know which type examiner I prefer, the former one, who sticks to the book, beyond doubt.

Edited by Radiomariner
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Black Ibis Proficient

Black Ibis

Posted
Posted

I'm no expert, but if the hole is open to your "sealed" water tank, your water tank could be full of gas. Potentially a bomb waiting to go off when welding commences... Or before if there's a spark or something?

I'm guessing you've not got any gas bottles in the locker, and you're planning to use a hand pump to empty the water tank of gas - although I've no idea how you will know when it's empty?

Fill it full of water to push out any gas?

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Radiomariner Rising Star

Radiomariner

Posted
Posted (edited)

Fill it full of water to push out any gas?

Excellent suggestion. Fill the tank up intil the water flows out of the gas locker drains.Leave it for a while with the water level to the bottom of the drain holes, to allow all gas now in the locker to escape outside the boat before draining out the water prior to welding.

 

Edited to add: - I also sugguest you buy borrow or hire a "explosive gas" detector to check before welding.

Edited by Radiomariner
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