What model is this Ruston?

[Tinhare]

The paperwork for our narrowboat has conflicting information for the engine. It was built in 1934 or 1937 depending on what paperwork you look at. Also it is listed as a 2YH? on the BSS which is wrong as a 2YH is a single cylinder engine. All other paperwork refer to it as simply a vintage engine which isn't particularly helpful. Having a quick look yesterday I couldn't locate the builders plate.

 

 

 

I think this is the engine model or is it the serial number?

 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Regards,
Alan.

 

[MtB]

Looks like a 2VTH to me...

 

The 2VSH is very similar in appearance but a lot bigger.

 

 

MtB

Also it is listed as a 2YH? on the BSS which is wrong as a 2YH is a single cylinder engine.

 

I'm intrigued as to why you say this. the "2" generally indicates the number of cylinders. And the 2YH is not listed as a Ruston in the Marine Engine Database here. Nor does Goofle return any results searching for "Ruston 2YH", so I think it may be correct to surmise there is no such model.

 

(Someone will no doubt pop up now with a photo of theirs!)

 

MtB

[Tinhare]

I based my assumption on the engine data on the Real Diesels website They only list one engine with 2YH which is a 2YHR single cylinder engine. I had the same problem locating a 2YH on Google.

 

Personally I think it is a 2VS0 R which has been marinised. Story has it that it was originally used in the pitch roller at Trent Bridge cricket ground.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Tinhare

[MtB]

Blimey that's a comprehensive listing... I've seen it long ago but lost the link, so thanks for that!

 

The 2YHR being 12.5" stroke and 6.5" bore is probably one of those 'open crank' Rustons with horizontal cylinder and a flywheel 6ft in diameter. If I'm right this would explain why it is missing from the marine engine database.

 

I was looking at a 2VSH today and it seemed HUGE compared to yours, but It is hard the get a sense of scale from photos. The 2VSO looks virtually identical to a 2VSH IIRC.

 

MtB

[MtB]

Story has it that it was originally used in the pitch roller at Trent Bridge cricket ground.

 

Hmmmm I've heard that said before. That roller must have had one helluvalot of Rustons fitted to it over the decades...

[by'eck]

I based my assumption on the engine data on the Real Diesels website They only list one engine with 2YH which is a 2YHR single cylinder engine. I had the same problem locating a 2YH on Google.

 

Personally I think it is a 2VS0 R which has been marinised. Story has it that it was originally used in the pitch roller at Trent Bridge cricket ground.

 

I agree it looks more like a 2VSO than 2VTH. Check out this video.

 

[billh]

2VSO,

the clue is on the crankcase cast in number!

 

used in cranes, Ruston locos, compressors, roadrollers,generators etc. 16HP at 1000 rpm, I think. The 2VSH is uprated to 1500 rpm and a few more HP. Nice engines but probably smoky as they never seem to warm up properly, lovely sound with a big exhaust pipe and bombproof. Parts a bit rare now but probably won't need any. The injectors are Ruston's own , not CAV or Bryce .

Bill

Edited April 24, 2013 by billh

[David Mack]

Blimey that's a comprehensive listing... I've seen it long ago but lost the link, so thanks for that!

 

There's also this listing on the MCA website (where Rustons are listed under GEC-Alsthom Ruston Diesels Ltd).

[onionbargee]

2VSO,

the clue is on the crankcase cast in number!

 

used in cranes, Ruston locos, compressors, roadrollers,generators etc. 16HP at 1000 rpm, I think. The 2VSH is uprated to 1500 rpm and a few more HP. Nice engines but probably smoky as they never seem to warm up properly, lovely sound with a big exhaust pipe and bombproof. Parts a bit rare now but probably won't need any. The injectors are Ruston's own , not CAV or Bryce .

Bill

[billh]

2VSO,

the clue is on the crankcase cast in number!

I seem to remember that "R"(4th character) refers to engines made for rollers, so that ties in with the cricket pitch connection. Can't remember why a roller requires a specific mark of engine though

[MtB]

I seem to remember that "R"(4th character) refers to engines made for rollers, so that ties in with the cricket pitch connection. Can't remember why a roller requires a specific mark of engine though

 

The 2VSH I was looking at today was taken from a scrapped crane. I was talking to the bloke who scrapped it so I'm sure this is correct! Does the forth letter H signify it's from a crane?

 

BTW I never checked, would it have been a fixed speed engine in a crane? Or variable speed, and suitable for a boat?

 

MtB

[billh]

The 2VSH I was looking at today was taken from a scrapped crane. I was talking to the bloke who scrapped it so I'm sure this is correct! Does the forth letter H signify it's from a crane?

 

BTW I never checked, would it have been a fixed speed engine in a crane? Or variable speed, and suitable for a boat?

 

MtB

Crane needs variable speed- high for rapid hoisting and travelling, low speed and something in between for accurate placing of the load. I think the 2 VSO was standard in the Jones KL44 mobile crane. Our Ruston Bucyrus 10RB crane has variable speed 3VRH 35HP 1000RPM , Ruston's equivalent to Lister JP3 and is very similar in appearance. Not sure about the "H", but sounds about right.

Bill

Edited April 24, 2013 by billh

[MtB]

Excellent. Thanks Billh!

 

MtB

[by'eck]

Crane needs variable speed- high for rapid hoisting and travelling, low speed and something in between for accurate placing of the load. I think the 2 VSO was standard in the Jones KL22 mobile crane. Our Ruston Bucyrus 10RB crane has variable speed 3VRH 35HP 1000RPM , Ruston's equivalent to Lister JP3 and is very similar in appearance. Not sure about the "H", but sounds about right.

Bill

 

Thought the Ruston JPM3 was their version of the Lister JP3. The power output figures are identical and the small capacity difference just down to conversion errors maybe. They also look similar as seen in this picture.

 

 

I wonder if the Ruston 3VRH looking similar but with higher output at 1500 rpm is more likely to be the equivalent of a Lister JK3.

[billh]

Thought the Ruston JPM3 was their version of the Lister JP3. The power output figures are identical and the small capacity difference just down to conversion errors maybe. They also look similar as seen in this picture.

 

 

I wonder if the Ruston 3VRH looking similar but with higher output at 1500 rpm is more likely to be the equivalent of a Lister JK3.

You learn something every day! If this picture is of a Ruston product then the VRO/VRH engines are not the equivalent of JP3. There are many similarities though: dimensionally pretty much the same, position of transverse injection pump at opposite end to flywheel , position of holding down bolts.

So this begs the question- did Lister copy the Ruston VRO to produce the JP or vice versa? Also why did Ruston need to produce another model so similar in terms of power output to the VRO? Was it to fulfil an order for the military for standard design searchlight/emergency generators?

[Timleech]

You learn something every day! If this picture is of a Ruston product then the VRO/VRH engines are not the equivalent of JP3. There are many similarities though: dimensionally pretty much the same, position of transverse injection pump at opposite end to flywheel , position of holding down bolts.

So this begs the question- did Lister copy the Ruston VRO to produce the JP or vice versa? Also why did Ruston need to produce another model so similar in terms of power output to the VRO? Was it to fulfil an order for the military for standard design searchlight/emergency generators?

 

My understanding is that Listers and Rustons collaborated to design and make the JP (Joint Product), the starting point being a Ruston design (presume the VRO).

 

Tim

[matty40s]

 

BTW I never checked, would it have been a fixed speed engine in a crane? Or variable speed, and suitable for a boat?

 

MtB

My Gardner lump was originally from a Liverpool docks crane ..........

(before a swift outing on the Old Trafford cricket pitch roller)

[by'eck]

My understanding is that Listers and Rustons collaborated to design and make the JP (Joint Product), the starting point being a Ruston design (presume the VRO).

 

Tim

 

 

I quote from Ray Hooley's website: Lister and the JP engines

 

Having shed most of their non-engine products, Rustons had concentrated mainly on offering a wide range engines of all sizes and capabilities. There was one obvious gap - the smaller vertical high-speed diesel. Listers were probably the leaders in this field, but their engines were on the small side for Rustons. The two companies got together and produced a joint engine, the 'JP'. Rustons produced the larger components such as the crankcase, and Listers produced the smaller elements. Rustons learned quickly, and very soon afterwards they were producing high-speed diesels of wholly Ruston design. A wide range was made available, and these engines became one of the company's main products.

 

This suggests that the Arthur Freeman-Sanders designed Listers, with combustion chamber attributed to Harry Ricardo, were copied by Ruston's. The more sophisticated JP series, Lister's first diesel ironically marginally pre-dating the agricultural CS engines in 1929.

Edited April 25, 2013 by by'eck

[Tinhare]

Yes the clue was in the cast in crankcase number, hence the photo.

 

Thanks for all the responses, all very interesting. Don't you just love forums. BillH thanks for the info.

She runs lovely but as an earlier poster noted she is a bit smokey. Going up to the boat this weekend so will pull the air filter out and see what it is and look for a replacement unless it is a blow out with compressed air type, not sure and I guess I won't know until i pull it.

 

My next question, probably should start another thread, is:- at the moment it isn't fitted with a thermostat for the cooling system. The instructions that came with he boat say to close off the taps until it gets warm, hmmm, OK but personally I would prefer a thermostat so as to avoid overheating. At the moment the coolant pipes to the skin tank hardly get warm. Is there a way of retro fitting a thermostat somewhere in the line?

 

Maybe the fact that I only had it idling to put some charge into the house batteries and not taken it out for a run would have something to do with it. Will know more after the weekend.

[casper ghost]

My 2VTH looks similar but the pipework is in different places. There's no thermostat on mine either, but it's almost impossible to do any damage to these engines from overheating. The water pipes get fairly warm on mine on a run, I can switch a lever so the water bypasses the swim tank and only runs through the callorifier. Mine is smokey until it warms up.

Casp'

[Tinhare]

Hi Casp,

Thanks for the response. I'll have a look over the weekend and see if there is lever on mine. If not that sounds like an ideal way to make sure the calorifier is getting the maximum heat and I can see that until it gets hot then it will cool the coolant on the return to the engine.

 

Nice to know yours is smokey too until it warms up.

 

 

Cheers,
Alan.

[Tinhare]

Oh, also Casp, does yours have a temperature gauge?

[Skye]

I agree it looks more like a 2VSO than 2VTH. Check out this video.

 

Wow

[steamraiser2]

 

My next question, probably should start another thread, is:- at the moment it isn't fitted with a thermostat for the cooling system. The instructions that came with he boat say to close off the taps until it gets warm, hmmm, OK but personally I would prefer a thermostat so as to avoid overheating. At the moment the coolant pipes to the skin tank hardly get warm. Is there a way of retro fitting a thermostat somewhere in the line?

It is a straight forward job to fit a universal thermostat housing on to the engine water outlet to your skin tank. The Ruston will easily handle temperatures up to the low 80s C. There will be an improvement in combustion too as a result of the higher temp. Lots of lovely hot water at the calorifier too.!We retrofit termostats to all our engines as standard as it has positive benefits.

[by'eck]

It is a straight forward job to fit a universal thermostat housing on to the engine water outlet to your skin tank. The Ruston will easily handle temperatures up to the low 80s C. There will be an improvement in combustion too as a result of the higher temp. Lots of lovely hot water at the calorifier too.!We retrofit termostats to all our engines as standard as it has positive benefits.

 

Adding to Geoff's comments, and having fitted a thermostat with bypass to calorifier circuit, add a "T" or "L" port valve in the bypass circuit (depending on plumbing) to allow direct bypass at engine or through calorifier. This allows for much quicker warm ups with increased efficiency and reduced wear.

 

No worries if you forget to switch over since the main cooling circuit is still available via thermostat. You may find that with the calorifier in circuit an 80°C thermostat never opens with temp sitting around 70°C.