TV licence

[Hastings]

You missed the bit where I said I don't watch Tv, hence me being LLF. But don't let that you stop from your rant.

My apologies re you not watching TV, but I stand by my comments re anyone who does. I just feel that trying to find a technicality to get out of paying for something one uses is morally repugnant. Everyone here seems to agree that you have to have a CRT licence for your boat - the law requires you to. What's different with TV?

[Guest]

My apologies re you not watching TV, but I stand by my comments re anyone who does. I just feel that trying to find a technicality to get out of paying for something one uses is morally repugnant. Everyone here seems to agree that you have to have a CRT licence for your boat - the law requires you to. What's different with TV?

 

A combination of things in my opinion-

 

Because it's a bit more difficult to get a licence when you live on a boat permanently some people don't go through the steps referred to further up the thread (see Carls T's posts) to get one.

 

Some genuinely mistakenly believe they don't need one if living permanently on a boat,

 

Some know they need one really but believe that detection is so unlikely (probably very true) that is is worth the risk.

[Jerra]

A combination of things in my opinion-

 

Because it's a bit more difficult to get a licence when you live on a boat permanently some people don't go through the steps referred to further up the thread (see Carls T's posts) to get one.

 

Some genuinely mistakenly believe they don't need one if living permanently on a boat,

 

Some know they need one really but believe that detection is so unlikely (probably very true) that is is worth the risk.

 

Mistaken belief can be temporarily understood. The other excuses don't make not having a license morally any better.

 

Its a simple choice jump through the hoops however difficult or don't own a TV set.

 

I know this isn't a tax but what is the difference between tax avoidance and not buying a license (viewed morally of course not from amounts of money etc)?

[Guest]

Mistaken belief can be temporarily understood. The other excuses don't make not having a license morally any better.

 

Its a simple choice jump through the hoops however difficult or don't own a TV set.

 

I know this isn't a tax but what is the difference between tax avoidance and not buying a license (viewed morally of course not from amounts of money etc)?

 

There isn't really any difference that I can see, but some people will always 'try it on'.

 

The moral question is an interesting one though because now that we have catch up TV services available on line that circumnavigate the law by not being instantaneously broadcast but are 'near instantaneous' is it less 'moral' to watch TV on one of these knowing that really all you and the services concerned are doing is exploiting a bit of a loophole in the law?

[KevMc]

There isn't really any difference that I can see, but some people will always 'try it on'.

 

The moral question is an interesting one though because now that we have catch up TV services available on line that circumnavigate the law by not being instantaneously broadcast but are 'near instantaneous' is it less 'moral' to watch TV on one of these knowing that really all you and the services concerned are doing is exploiting a bit of a loophole in the law?

 

Why is watching on catchup a loophole when watching a DVD isn't ? Surely they are merely extensions of the same concept? You aren't watching broadcast TV as its broadcast - you are watching a stored version of it

[john6767]

Why is watching on catchup a loophole when watching a DVD isn't ? Surely they are merely extensions of the same concept? You aren't watching broadcast TV as its broadcast - you are watching a stored version of it

The point is that TVCatchup is delayed by only about 30 seconds from real time broadcast, so it is perhaps a bit of a loophole it that for practical purposes you are watching "as broadcast".

[Guest]

Why is watching on catchup a loophole when watching a DVD isn't ? Surely they are merely extensions of the same concept? You aren't watching broadcast TV as its broadcast - you are watching a stored version of it

 

Because it's an issue of the time delay.

 

The law originally exempted catch up TV services for exactly that reason - it was no different to watching a DVD recorded a long time previous to the viewing. We now though have at least one TV service which although it calls itself 'TV Catch up' actually transmits a matter of seconds after the 'live' transmission, almost instantaneous, so yes it remains within the law but only just, effectively you are watching it 'live'

 

Given the advent of smart TV's that connect to your BB router and other ways to watch 'on-line' it can surely only be a matter of time before a legal stipulation about a minimum time before re-broadcast is introduced or the BBC will see it's major income stream simply evaporate, why pay for something if you can (legally) get it for free? is what some people will say.

[Jerra]

Just to muddy the water a bit more, what is the difference between a repeat which can often be bought as a DVD and catch up TV/internet viewing etc?

[carlt]

The point is that TVCatchup is delayed by only about 30 seconds from real time broadcast, so it is perhaps a bit of a loophole it that for practical purposes you are watching "as broadcast".

Not even 30 seconds, compared to Virgin Cable....

 

Perhaps I don't need a licence for Virgin, if it is delayed compared to "terrestial"...

[KevMc]

The point is that TVCatchup is delayed by only about 30 seconds from real time broadcast, so it is perhaps a bit of a loophole it that for practical purposes you are watching "as broadcast".

I thought that iPlayer doesn't show a program until it has finished broadcasting and the other services worked the same way.... but as usual I'm quite happy to be corrected

[carlt]

I thought that iPlayer doesn't show a program until it has finished broadcasting and the other services worked the same way.... but as usual I'm quite happy to be corrected

TV Catchup is near-live (I've just timed it at about 12 seconds behind Virgin Cable, at the moment).

[Guest]

I thought that iPlayer doesn't show a program until it has finished broadcasting and the other services worked the same way.... but as usual I'm quite happy to be corrected

 

iPlayer doesn't - but other services as said are virtually instantaneous.

 

Check out the link I posted to TV catchup.

 

Not even 30 seconds, compared to Virgin Cable....

 

Perhaps I don't need a licence for Virgin, if it is delayed compared to "terrestial"...

 

Actually good point I've also noticed our Sky is fractionally behind Freeview....

[KevMc]

iPlayer doesn't - but other services as said are virtually instantaneous.

 

Check out the link I posted to TV catchup.

 

 

 

Actually good point I've also noticed our Sky is fractionally behind Freeview....

Best wait until I get home to try that - don't think they'd be too impressed at work if I started to watch Jeremy Kyle

[Guest]

Best wait until I get home to try that - don't think they'd be too impressed at work if I started to watch Jeremy Kyle

 

You might find it's blocked by your employer - sites like this often are as they use a lot of bandwidth to stream the video....

[KevMc]

You might find it's blocked by your employer - sites like this often are as they use a lot of bandwidth to stream the video....

I just wikki'd TV Catchup and apparently they say you need a licence to view it !

[Guest]

I just wikki'd TV Catchup and apparently they say you need a licence to view it !

 

Interesting - the PC advisor site says the same. I have read that you don't but I'm jiggered if I can find the link now.

 

Loophole closed then? - unless somebody knows different.

[carlt]

I just wikki'd TV Catchup and apparently they say you need a licence to view it !

Yes I've just looked at their website and they are describing it as "live TV on your Android", rather than delayed and saying that you do need a licence.

 

Apparently creating the delay meant they were breaching copyright laws (by recording and retransmitting).

[john6767]

Looking around, I think TVCatchup has changed a bit recently.

 

I think they have removed the intentional delay, and it is now possibly just the encoding time that you see as the delay, much like you could see between Freeview and analogue TV when that was still around. They are now positioning themselves as "live TV", this was because in adding the delay they were in effect making a copy of the broadcast and had fallen foul of copyrigth lays, which of course forbid copies to be made except under specific circumstances.

 

On the licence front though I guess watching on a desktop PC does mean you need a licence, but as you do not need a TV on a device that is powered by its own internal batteries then a mobile phone or laptop when nto connect to the mains would seem to me to be OK without a license.

[Jerra]

On the licence front though I guess watching on a desktop PC does mean you need a licence, but as you do not need a TV on a device that is powered by its own internal batteries then a mobile phone or laptop when nto connect to the mains would seem to me to be OK without a license.

 

Interesting! It doesn't quite match up to the statement they make on the TV licensing website. My bold!

 

 

You need a valid TV Licence if you use TV receiving equipment to watch or record television programmes as they’re being shown on TV. ‘TV receiving equipment’ means any equipment which is used to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. This includes a TV, computer, mobile phone, games console, digital box, DVD/VHS recorder or any other device.

[john6767]

Interesting! It doesn't quite match up to the statement they make on the TV licensing website. My bold!

 

 

You need a valid TV Licence if you use TV receiving equipment to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. 'TV receiving equipment' means any equipment which is used to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. This includes a TV, computer, mobile phone, games console, digital box, DVD/VHS recorder or any other device.

 

I had not worded that right! It is the need for a separate licence to your home one on a device powered with its own batteries I was referring to, as you can see I missed some words out!

 

Just to be clear, as I read it; if it is live TV (and TVCatchup seems to be that now) then you need a licence, period. On a device powered by its own internal batteries eg phone laptop you do not need a separate licence, this is very relevant to the likes of students for example. Of course use on a boat is specifically allowed to be covered by you home licence under a separate clause.

 

 

 

[eightpot]

Wrong. The internal battery bit relates to television receivers with erm, internal batteries. It does not cover laptops and mobile phones. It's a case of the wording/law not keeping up with technological trends. However, the issue is how are TVL/BBC gonna catch you? One answer is when the BBC charter is up for review in 2016, they may push for a Broadband tax. Good old Auntie. As an aside, my partner got her monthly letter from TVL/BBC today. Auntie is threatening her with court action, again.

 

The fairest system would be to make the BBC subscription based rather than the "unique" way they are currently funded.

[john6767]

Wrong. The internal battery bit relates to television receivers with erm, internal batteries. It does not cover laptops and mobile phones. It's a case of the wording/law not keeping up with technological trends. However, the issue is how are TVL/BBC gonna catch you? One answer is when the BBC charter is up for review in 2016, they may push for a Broadband tax. Good old Auntie. As an aside, my partner got her monthly letter from TVL/BBC today. Auntie is threatening her with court action, again.

 

The fairest system would be to make the BBC subscription based rather than the "unique" way they are currently funded.

 

So you are saying that you need a separate TV licence for a phone if you use it outside of the main premises? I don't see that all, the wording is that you do not need a separate TV licence for "Any device powered solely by its own internal batteries (i.e. it is not connected to an aerial or plugged into the mains). Your main home's TV licence will cover this.", I can't see how that does not cover a phone.

 

 

 

 

[eightpot]

 

 

Just to be clear, as I read it; if it is live TV (and TVCatchup seems to be that now) then you need a licence, period. On a device powered by its own internal batteries eg phone laptop you do not need a separate licence, this is very relevant to the likes of students for example.

 

A television powered by internal batteries is exempted from licencing restrictions. But if you plug it into an external power source it does require a licence.

 

I was picking up on the student bit. A student away from home at uni will NOT be covered by their home licence if they watch live tv via a lappy/mobile - they will need to buy a licence. Indeed TV licensing goons are routinely let into student halls to sell them to those who may not require one, every licence they sell gains them £20 commission.

 

Hands up who originally thought you had to hold a licence for the mere possession of a television receiver? Now imagine your 18 year old kid on their own face-to-face with a commission based salesman telling them they risk court action if they don't buy a licence.

 

Really.

 

Don't think TVL/BBC are that underhand?

 

 

That's the same letter my partner (who also chooses not to watch tv) received today.

 

Good old Auntie.

[Cloudinspector]

just ditch the TV. It's full of pointless crap that rots your brain. when i first got together with Mrs C we didn't have a TV for 10 years then in a moment of madness we returned to the world of the goggle box. since living afloat we haven't had a TV and feel much better for it.

[Tinhare]

A television powered by internal batteries is exempted from licencing restrictions. But if you plug it into an external power source it does require a licence.

 

I was picking up on the student bit. A student away from home at uni will NOT be covered by their home licence if they watch live tv via a lappy/mobile - they will need to buy a licence. Indeed TV licensing goons are routinely let into student halls to sell them to those who may not require one, every licence they sell gains them £20 commission.

 

Hands up who originally thought you had to hold a licence for the mere possession of a television receiver? Now imagine your 18 year old kid on their own face-to-face with a commission based salesman telling them they risk court action if they don't buy a licence.

 

Really.

 

Don't think TVL/BBC are that underhand?

 

 

That's the same letter my partner (who also chooses not to watch tv) received today.

 

Good old Auntie.

Regarding your letter:

It is bluff, note the wording Information you may need before a hearing is set. Note the word may not will. Note also that it says before a hearing is set. So a hearing has not been set and also if they were taking you to court they would know the court and specify it rather than your local court

You will be allowed to take it into court with you. Well, yeah, you will also be allowed to take a magazine in with you, what a stupid statement.

Bullet point two states Evidence gathered during an enforcement visit. That can't happen unless you invite the enforcement "officers" in. They have no legal right to enter your "dwelling" without a warrant they can't get a warrant unless they can prove that you have a, say TV, which they can't prove unless they enter your property.

Funny thing law.

 

‘TV Licensing’ is a trade mark of the BBC and is used under licence by companies contracted by the BBC to administer the collection of television licence fees and enforcement of the television licensing system.

Here is an interesting website from someone who, for the past six years, hasn't watched live TV but only DVD's like you do and also where I got most of the information above from. http://www.bbctvlicence.com/index.htm The letters section, six years worth, is a very interesting read as is the whole site.

 

Cheers,

Alan.