Buying a narrow boat

[RhiannonBryony]

Hello, I have just stumbled upon this forum, which is a fabulous wealth of information- really helpful, thank you all.

 

My partner and I really want to live on the canals, and have been lusting over online ads for boats for the past year, whilst saving like crazy. We particularily want to cruise continuously, we are both nomads at heart and our work gives us the freedom to live wherever we want. I have always wanted to explore the UK by boat and although my canal experience is minimal I have lived aboard sailing boats in the past for long periods of time (for work- I am a freelance chef) and my OH has been a long distance lorry driver for most of his life (living in a cab for months at a time), and neither of us has had a base for the last five years- so a place of our own, without buying into the mortgage game, that we can move whenever we want, is extremely appealing to us.

 

My worry is this- we both work in the entertainment touring industry, touring with musicians/circuses etc for blocks of time that can be from between a week to five weeks- sometimes we work together so there will be no one on board. Is it possible to rent short term moorings on an ad hoc basis for these periods of time if we plan our route carefully?

 

We plan to spend some time on board before we take the plunge, so we are looking into hiring a boat in the next few months and looking into doing some courses that we have found. We plan to look at as many boats as possible in our time off- we are excited to get started as soon as possible to be honest, but having read the many tales of caution on this site we are going to try and be sensibly steady about this process

 

We have a budget of around 25k to work with, are not 100 percent sure what size yet (hoping that spending some time nosing around will give us a better idea- but I expect we will be looking somewhere between the 50-60 foot range if we can within our budget)

 

Any advice woud be amazing and hugely appreciated, thank you.

 

Rhiannon and Stephan.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Is it possible to rent short term moorings on an ad hoc basis for these periods of time if we plan our route carefully?

 

<snip>

 

Rhiannon and Stephan.

 

Hi Rhiannon and Stephan, welcome to the forum

 

Yes, it is often possible to find short term moorings at marinas like that.

 

To get an idea of what your £25K will buy, have you tried looking on ApolloDuck? Do be careful on there though, it's a tremendous place to lose track of time dreaming

 

Richard

[MtB]

Yes welcome to the forum.

 

As Richard says, your plan sounds well thought out and perfectly viable to me.

 

Most marinas are happy to rent out short term moorings. The only difficulty might be if you cannot tell them how long you want to leave the boat for. Still not a deal breaker though.

 

Keep thinking of questions and feel free to ask away!

 

 

MtB

[RhiannonBryony]

Hi Richard, thank you, that sounds promising (and yes, many many hours have been collectively wasted in Apollo duck land over the last 12 months!).

[RhiannonBryony]

Hello Mike, and thank you for the welcome. Letting the marinas know how long we need to leave the boat for should not be an issue, so this is sounding more like a feasible plan. I'm sure we are going to have hundreds of questions over the next few months, so thank you!

 

I have been reading a lot about running costs on here, which seem to vary hugely. Obviously we would want to spend as much time on board as possible, which would mean less time on tour, which means less earnings- I get the feeling that this is something that we are going to have to work out as we go along, but any tips on a minimum monthly budget to aim for? We were looking at £1,000 a month for basics, whilst cruising- is this completely unrealistic?

 

Also we would like to be as self sufficient as possible power wise, and good pointers re: solar?

 

Thankyou!

 

Rhiannon

[RhiannonBryony]

Ah, just figured out the search function- scrap the solar question, I see this has been covered plenty- sorry!

[Athy]

A clearer explanation of the pattern of your work (which sounds fascinating, by the way) might give more clues as to what use you could make of your boat. When you say that you can be touring "for blocks of time" do you mean that, for example, Status Quo are doing a tour, Stephan drives their speaker stacks around and you cook for them, so you could well be in six different towns per week? Or do you mean that the circus might do a summer season and be in the same place for a month? If the latter, you might be able to move the boat to a canal near the venue for the duration of the season.

You should be able to get a decent largish boat for your budget of £25,000. Most prices can be reduced by negociation, and the discount you can get should pay for your survey (essential before buying a boat) and perhaps your first year's boat licence (fairly expensive: think £700) and insurance (fairly cheap).

[bizzard]

As others have said and in my opinion ex-hire boats are the way to go as a first timer and particularly if your not generally a practical person as all the fundamental things like engine installation, water, heating and electrics will be done simply, properly and soundly, unlike a lot of modern privately built self fit-outs or boats where the punter has dictated to and overridden the builders more sound and sensible methods and arrangements and the boat ends up with a typically modern naff engine installation to gain a bit more cabin space, over complicated crazy electrics, water and heating systems which usually are very very costly when it all keeps going wrong 'and they do' and you can't fix things yourself, just peruse all the continual problem threads about electrics and plumbing on this forum, so I'd be very careful when adding extra costly electrical appliance and plumbing gadgets and gizmos.

Happy boating.

[RhiannonBryony]

A clearer explanation of the pattern of your work (which sounds fascinating, by the way) might give more clues as to what use you could make of your boat. When you say that you can be touring "for blocks of time" do you mean that, for example, Status Quo are doing a tour, Stephan drives their speaker stacks around and you cook for them, so you could well be in six different towns per week? Or do you mean that the circus might do a summer season and be in the same place for a month? If the latter, you might be able to move the boat to a canal near the venue for the duration of the season.

You should be able to get a decent largish boat for your budget of £25,000. Most prices can be reduced by negociation, and the discount you can get should pay for your survey (essential before buying a boat) and perhaps your first year's boat licence (fairly expensive: think £700) and insurance (fairly cheap).

 

Hi Athy, it is quite difficult to define a pattern, as it varies so much. I am self employed and although I can decide whether or not to take work when it is available, I cant always predict when it will be available (which makes it hard to turn it down, make hay etc) As an example, for at least the next five months Stephan is on tour in Europe, but will be home for up to two weeks at a time on four or five occasions during this tour- flying back to work when he is needed. I have two music tours lined up in the next three months, both in the UK, both moving city every few days. One is for 10 days and one is for three weeks. I may then join stephan on tour with the circus for a month or two later in the summer, cooking for clowns The work provides accommodation, whether tour bus, hotel room or Truck cab, which is how we have been able to live without a home base for so long- we have been pretty much constantly touring for the last couple of years, and while we both love the life, it is now time to make a home together and unpack our suitcases (although we cant quite bring ourselves to put down proper roots- hence the nomadic cruising plans )

 

Our aim is to eventually try and have a balance, where we spend as much time as possible on board, and tour when we need the cash. The ideal scenario is that we both work on the same tour for a block of time and save the money to be able to cruise for the rest of the year. It's more likely however that we have one to five weeks work every couple of months.

 

This is probably no clearer, sorry!

[RhiannonBryony]

As others have said and in my opinion ex-hire boats are the way to go as a first timer and particularly if your not generally a practical person as all the fundamental things like engine installation, water, heating and electrics will be done simply, properly and soundly, unlike a lot of modern privately built self fit-outs or boats where the punter has dictated to and overridden the builders more sound and sensible methods and arrangements and the boat ends up with a typically modern naff engine installation to gain a bit more cabin space, over complicated crazy electrics, water and heating systems which usually are very very costly when it all keeps going wrong 'and they do' and you can't fix things yourself, just peruse all the continual problem threads about electrics and plumbing on this forum, so I'd be very careful when adding extra costly electrical appliance and plumbing gadgets and gizmos.

Happy boating.

 

Thank you, will look into this. Stephan is reasonably practical, he trained a plumber and has been driving trucks for 25 years, he is used to maintaining and fixing engines, so we are hoping that this is going to help us along the way. However the idea of solid simple electric and plumbing systems that we can fix ourselves is one we really like. Having lived on a sailing boat I am well aware of how often things go wrong with plumbing and electrics, so very keen to minimise this

 

I dont bother with things like hair dryers and irons, but as a chef do like to use the occasional kitchen appliance- I have inherited my grandmothers antiquated but lovely food processor, which I would like to use as my only electrical extravagance..

 

Will keep an eye out for ex hire boats.

 

Thanks!

[bizzard]

Thank you, will look into this. Stephan is reasonably practical, he trained a plumber and has been driving trucks for 25 years, he is used to maintaining and fixing engines, so we are hoping that this is going to help us along the way. However the idea of solid simple electric and plumbing systems that we can fix ourselves is one we really like. Having lived on a sailing boat I am well aware of how often things go wrong with plumbing and electrics, so very keen to minimise this

 

I dont bother with things like hair dryers and irons, but as a chef do like to use the occasional kitchen appliance- I have inherited my grandmothers antiquated but lovely food processor, which I would like to use as my only electrical extravagance..

 

Will keep an eye out for ex hire boats.

 

Thanks!

Sounds good, enjoy.

[Athy]

Hi Athy, it is quite difficult to define a pattern, as it varies so much. I am self employed and although I can decide whether or not to take work when it is available, I cant always predict when it will be available (which makes it hard to turn it down, make hay etc) As an example, for at least the next five months Stephan is on tour in Europe, but will be home for up to two weeks at a time on four or five occasions during this tour- flying back to work when he is needed. I have two music tours lined up in the next three months, both in the UK, both moving city every few days. One is for 10 days and one is for three weeks. I may then join stephan on tour with the circus for a month or two later in the summer, cooking for clowns The work provides accommodation, whether tour bus, hotel room or Truck cab, which is how we have been able to live without a home base for so long- we have been pretty much constantly touring for the last couple of years, and while we both love the life, it is now time to make a home together and unpack our suitcases (although we cant quite bring ourselves to put down proper roots- hence the nomadic cruising plans )

 

Our aim is to eventually try and have a balance, where we spend as much time as possible on board, and tour when we need the cash. The ideal scenario is that we both work on the same tour for a block of time and save the money to be able to cruise for the rest of the year. It's more likely however that we have one to five weeks work every couple of months.

 

This is probably no clearer, sorry!

Yes it is actually - for example, the fact that some of your work takes uou ( or him, or both) abroad means that you would not be able to take the boat near to the venue!

Bizzard's suggestion about ex-hire boats is a good 'un: for one thing, they have had to be well maintained to withstand the weekly influx of idi...whoops, inexperienced hirers. BUT be warned that you won't get one which has just come off hire for your £25,000, or if you did it would be quite a small one. An ex-ex-hire boat is a possibilty though!

Have you tried refining your internet searches by boatbuilder names? For example, Liverpool Boats built hundreds of craft in the '90s and early 2000s, they were mainly sound but their initial purchase price was at the lower end of the range, so second or third-hand prices should be likewise.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Athy

[ditchcrawler]

I get the feeling that this is something that we are going to have to work out as we go along, but any tips on a minimum monthly budget to aim for? We were looking at £1,000 a month for basics, whilst cruising- is this completely unrealistic?

 

Thankyou!

 

Rhiannon

You may struggle on that budget if you leave your boat in a marina to often. Last time I paid for overnight mooring it was £10 a night and that was down the Nene.

[RhiannonBryony]

Yes it is actually - for example, the fact that some of your work takes uou ( or him, or both) abroad means that you would not be able to take the boat near to the venue!

Bizzars's suggestion about ex-hire boats is a good 'un: for one thing, they have had to be well maintained to withstand the weekly influx of idi...whoops, inexperienced hirers. BUT be warned that you won't get one which has just come off hire for your £25,000, or if you did it would be quite a small one. An ex-ex-hire boat is a possibilty though!

Have you tried refining your internet searches by boatbuilder names? For example, Liverpool Boats built hundreds of craft in the '90s and early 2000s, they were mainly sound but their initial purchase price was at the lower end of the range, so second or third-hand prices should be likewise.

 

Thank you! Really helpful to have some advice on this, there are so many options out there it has been difficult to narrow down.

 

You may struggle on that budget if you leave your boat in a marina to often. Last time I paid for overnight mooring it was £10 a night and that was down the Nene.

 

Eek that is pricey- does that price drop for weekly or monthly moorings?

[Grace and Favour]

Thank you! Really helpful to have some advice on this, there are so many options out there it has been difficult to narrow down.

 

 

 

Eek that is pricey- does that price drop for weekly or monthly moorings?

 

It really can be dependent upon the size of your boat, the particular marina/waterway, and how well you manage to communicate with a particular marina owner to be honest.

However, if you budget for £10 a night, and work out the rest of your spend around that, then you should be on the right side of things at the end of the month.

It goes without saying, of course, that moorings in London will work out dearer than that, (IF you can find them!) - Flexibility of location will be key

[IanM]

 

Eek that is pricey- does that price drop for weekly or monthly moorings?

 

Take the marina we moor in. For temporary moorings they say..

 

Weekly: £4.00 per metre per week + VAT

 

Daily (incl electricity): £15 per day including VAT

(maximum stay 6 nights)

[RhiannonBryony]

It really can be dependent upon the size of your boat, the particular marina/waterway, and how well you manage to communicate with a particular marina owner to be honest.

However, if you budget for £10 a night, and work out the rest of your spend around that, then you should be on the right side of things at the end of the month.

It goes without saying, of course, that moorings in London will work out dearer than that, (IF you can find them!) - Flexibility of location will be key

 

I guess that we will have to hope that as we will not be on board when the boat is in the marina, and when working away do not have any expenses (food and lodging and travel are all provided) and we wont be using any fuel- that this balances out. As long as we are within a train journey from an airport then we should be fine to steer clear of London- the appeal is countryside :when we are on board

 

Take the marina we moor in. For temporary moorings they say..

 

Weekly: £4.00 per metre per week + VAT

 

Daily (incl electricity): £15 per day including VAT

(maximum stay 6 nights)

 

Thank you- it looks like we should be able to factor this into our budget.

[ditchcrawler]

I guess that we will have to hope that as we will not be on board when the boat is in the marina, and when working away do not have any expenses (food and lodging and travel are all provided) and we wont be using any fuel- that this balances out. As long as we are within a train journey from an airport then we should be fine to steer clear of London- the appeal is countryside :when we are on board

 

 

 

Thank you- it looks like we should be able to factor this into our budget.

You are quite right, if you leave the boat for a month while working then there will be no diesel to buy or gas and maybe you will be eating for free as well. The glass is half full not half empty.

[RhiannonBryony]

You are quite right, if you leave the boat for a month while working then there will be no diesel to buy or gas and maybe you will be eating for free as well. The glass is half full not half empty.

 

Exactly

 

 

As we will be cash buyers, and no need for finance, realistically how quickly would we be able to own a boat once we find 'the one'? Taking survey etc into account?

 

We are planning to start a family in the next few years, are there many people cruising with baby's? Is this a terrible idea? My mother spent her early years living on a boat so I imagine its not completely crazy (although my grandparents were definitely considered unconventional- my grandfather wrote several books about travelling the canals- http://www.faber.co.uk/catalog/voyage-into-england/9780571294725) Obviously this would need some changes to our work- I can imagine it might be difficult for me to manage baby and boat if Stephan had to go on tour!

[IanM]

Exactly

 

 

As we will be cash buyers, and no need for finance, realistically how quickly would we be able to own a boat once we find 'the one'? Taking survey etc into account?

 

From putting in an offer to having the keys took about 2 weeks for us. Would have been quicker had the surveyor been available sooner and it not been a Saturday when transferring the money.

[RhiannonBryony]

From putting in an offer to having the keys took about 2 weeks for us. Would have been quicker had the surveyor been available sooner and it not been a Saturday when transferring the money.

 

Thanks IanM, thats great.

[Athy]

From putting in an offer to having the keys took about 2 weeks for us.

About the same for us when we bought our first boat - and if I recall correctly, it was just about the longest fortnight of our lives!

[RhiannonBryony]

About the same for us when we bought our first boat - and if I recall correctly, it was just about the longest fortnight of our lives!

 

I can imagine! We are both really excited about this plan, itching to get started.

 

I have been looking at Liverpool boats in our price range, and there are not many at the moment, any tips on other builders worth checking out? How risky is it buying an older boat?

[Athy]

any tips on other builders worth checking out? How risky is it buying an older boat?

File under "Piece of string, how long is?" Older boats (and they're generally longer-lasting than cars, so we're talking boats over about 20 years old)can be the most appalling rust-buckets with leaking roofs and windows to match, shuffling along the cut wreathed in smoke from their knackered engine, or they can be neat and tidy, smart, sound as a bell and looking forward to facing their next 20 years. The real divvles are the ones which LOOK neat and well cared for but are rust-buckets underneath - this is one reason why you must have a SURVEY before parting with any money (except to the surveyor).

As for good makes of older boat, Harborough Marine (the ones with great upswept banana-curving bows) are plentiful, as are Springers (the ones with slab sides, little moustache-like splashboards on the bows and an indefinable ugly-pretty charm). Colecraft, though still in production, have been going for donkeys' years and have a sound reputation; Mindons are older boats which were considered upmarket in their long-ago heyday. There, that should keep you goggling and Googling for a while longer. But be warned: it's the boat which will find you, not vice versa. You won't understand this until you experience it

Mike

Edited February 12, 2013 by Athy

[TNC]

Exactly

 

 

As we will be cash buyers, and no need for finance, realistically how quickly would we be able to own a boat once we find 'the one'? Taking survey etc into account?

 

We are planning to start a family in the next few years, are there many people cruising with baby's? Is this a terrible idea? My mother spent her early years living on a boat so I imagine its not completely crazy (although my grandparents were definitely considered unconventional- my grandfather wrote several books about travelling the canals- http://www.faber.co.uk/catalog/voyage-into-england/9780571294725) Obviously this would need some changes to our work- I can imagine it might be difficult for me to manage baby and boat if Stephan had to go on tour!

 

You will get on just fine, you have boating and self sufficiency in your blood!

Your grandfather is one of my heroes, the account of the last passage up the derelict Runcorn and Weston Canal, in Voyage into England is epic stuff.