Washing machine on 4amp shoreline?

[Kae]

Hi Everyone,

 

The layout of my potential new boat limits a washing machine to a slim line top loading appliance, which is fine, but I will only have a 4 amp shoreline to run it off as the on-board inverter is a quasi sine wave. So I need the machine to run entirely from the shoreline when I want to use it.

 

The Whirlpool AWE6760 appears to be the lowest electrical load device (0.85Kwh so 3.54amps?), but do you think I can get away with this on a 4amp shoreline? My plan would be to plumb it in via a thermostatic valve, so it won't have to heat any water, in theory.

 

Not having a washing machine isn't an option, nor is there a launderette, so any ideas gratefully received on how to make this work! The alternative is to buy a pure sinewave inverter, but as the washing machine is the only device that won't run off the quasi device already fitted (apart from the oven clock whizzing round), I'd rather not go to this expense.

 

Thanks for your time

[Justme]

appears to be the lowest electrical load device (0.85Kwh so 3.54amps?),

 

 

You cant convert kWh in to amps, only into amph.

 

Kwh is energy, amps is power.

 

You could still have a 2kw (thats over 8 amps of power) heater in the washer but its only on for 15 mins so consumes 0.5kWh or 2.17 amph (thats energy).

 

 

You need to know the peak current draw not the total energy consumed.

[Kae]

Bleedin obvious once you point that out, thank you!

[OldGoat]

Hi Everyone,

 

The layout of my potential new boat limits a washing machine to a slim line top loading appliance, which is fine, but I will only have a 4 amp shoreline to run it off as the on-board inverter is a quasi sine wave. So I need the machine to run entirely from the shoreline when I want to use it.

 

The Whirlpool AWE6760 appears to be the lowest electrical load device (0.85Kwh so 3.54amps?), but do you think I can get away with this on a 4amp shoreline? My plan would be to plumb it in via a thermostatic valve, so it won't have to heat any water, in theory.

 

Not having a washing machine isn't an option, nor is there a launderette, so any ideas gratefully received on how to make this work! The alternative is to buy a pure sinewave inverter, but as the washing machine is the only device that won't run off the quasi device already fitted (apart from the oven clock whizzing round), I'd rather not go to this expense.

 

Thanks for your time

 

A 4 amp connection seems a bit mean...

 

In the first instance even though the spec: says .85Kw -including the tricky 'h' indicates to me that it is an average figure and the motor start current could / would exceed that. and that would blow the fuse.

 

My assumption is based on a heater usually 1.5Kw - say for yours as a eco, mebe 1Kw plus the motor at 350w, so the machine would take 1.35Kw when the drum is moving and it's heating water at the same time. The quoted figure, being ".85Kw per hour" means that the heater doesn't run for a full hour?

However, how do you know that the quasi-sine wave won't work with the unit. AFAIK it's only some of the more sophisitcated machines that don't like mucky power. Lordy knows how you'd find out if your proposed machine is one of those.

 

You could unplug the heating element and fill from hot water - as others have suggested.

 

 

So the simple answer is 'no'

.

[Kae]

 

<snip>

 

So the simple answer is 'no'

.

 

Thanks OldGoat, indeed, the answer seems to be plug it in and try!

 

I can't find any technical specifications for the actual size of the heater or motor or peak power draw, so no help there. (I'm not adverse to just not using the heating element, as I say, I'm planning on plumbing in via a thermostatic mixer valve anyway).

 

I didn't realise that some machines will work with a Quasi sine-wave, but unless someone has actually tried it, there doesn't seem to be a resource that lists ones that do or don't!

[DaveC]

You could always get a twin tub, that would run off your mains or the "dirty" AC from your inverter.

 

 

 

 

 

Dave

[Tacet]

You could think about splitting the load and using both inverter and shoreline; the shoreline to power the fancy electrics and probably the motor leaving the inverter to run the heating element; using pre-heated water would ease the battery load.

 

Not recommended, of course, for reasons of safety...

[OldGoat]

Thanks OldGoat, indeed, the answer seems to be plug it in and try!

 

I can't find any technical specifications for the actual size of the heater or motor or peak power draw, so no help there. (I'm not adverse to just not using the heating element, as I say, I'm planning on plumbing in via a thermostatic mixer valve anyway).

 

I didn't realise that some machines will work with a Quasi sine-wave, but unless someone has actually tried it, there doesn't seem to be a resource that lists ones that do or don't!

 

The problem is that some washing machines have variable speed spin and washing controls and these use electronics - "thyristors" - to control the motor. These dson't like dirty AC. The sort of waveform coming out of quasi-sine inverters confuses the electronics.

I tried to get some help from Whirlpool's website and downloaded the instruction manual - absolutely no help at all; it didn't even show the control panel or discuss the various wash cycles....

 

As you obviously are hell bent on buying this machine (OK you don't have (m)any alternatives), then see what happens.

If it doesn't work, I understand that Sterling Power has just introduced a lower cost range of sinewave inverters - so you do have a solution, but a costly one.

[grahame r]

I would suggest that you start a new thread with the name of the machine and "power monitor" in the title, you just might find someone with the machine and a monitor who could measure the maximum power draw.

[bottle]

From here: http://www.whirlpool.co.uk/product-info-1/washing-%26-drying-2/washing-machines-3/-%5BAWE-6760%5D-100857/859367615010/

 

Connection rating (W) 2300

 

so that is approx 10 amps.

 

This would be the minimum size of supply (to include the heating element) but if close to that the 'motor start current' might trip the supply.

 

[lewisericeric]

Hi kae

 

Would you consider getting one of those mini twin tubs? Not read the whole thread so yo might have already said otherwise, but We have one like this

 

My link

 

Ours was a German branded one though but it has around the same capacity - around 4kg which is more than enough for two people and can do duvet covers, sheets etc too.

 

We've had ours over a year now as we only had a 1600w inverter installed which isn't enough to run a washing machine.... But I wouldn't go back now. I find it easier to be honest and quicker than an automatic!

 

Its pretty companct not like the old twin tubs and we just have it in the engine room!

[Kae]

You could always get a twin tub, that would run off your mains or the "dirty" AC from your inverter.

Dave

 

Thanks Dave, I'll look into those, my only concern is where to stow it, but once I'm on-board I can take measurements.

 

 

You could think about splitting the load and using both inverter and shoreline; the shoreline to power the fancy electrics and probably the motor leaving the inverter to run the heating element; using pre-heated water would ease the battery load.

 

Not recommended, of course, for reasons of safety...

 

Thanks Tacet, definitely a possibility.

 

 

The problem is that some washing machines have variable speed spin and washing controls and these use electronics - "thyristors" - to control the motor. These dson't like dirty AC. The sort of waveform coming out of quasi-sine inverters confuses the electronics.

I tried to get some help from Whirlpool's website and downloaded the instruction manual - absolutely no help at all; it didn't even show the control panel or discuss the various wash cycles....

 

As you obviously are hell bent on buying this machine (OK you don't have (m)any alternatives), then see what happens.

If it doesn't work, I understand that Sterling Power has just introduced a lower cost range of sinewave inverters - so you do have a solution, but a costly one.

 

Thanks again OldGoat. Funny enough, I was just looking at the new sinewave inverters, but as you say, it takes the cost of a washing machine from ~£350 to nearer £1000!

I'm open to options for sure, just weighing everything up. I won't be doing anything until I'm on-board and can measure the space etc.

 

 

I would suggest that you start a new thread with the name of the machine and "power monitor" in the title, you just might find someone with the machine and a monitor who could measure the maximum power draw.

 

Thanks Grahame, I certainly will once I can confirm size etc. Don't want to waste anyone's time unnecessarily.

 

 

From here: http://www.whirlpool...7/859367615010/

 

Connection rating (W) 2300

 

so that is approx 10 amps.

 

This would be the minimum size of supply (to include the heating element) but if close to that the 'motor start current' might trip the supply.

 

 

Thanks Bottle, I was hoping to find the draw of the motor only, but couldn't find that either. I could negate the need for the heating element using preheated water, but can't turn the drum by hand to help that bit .

 

 

Hi kae

 

Would you consider getting one of those mini twin tubs? Not read the whole thread so yo might have already said otherwise, but We have one like this

 

My link

 

Ours was a German branded one though but it has around the same capacity - around 4kg which is more than enough for two people and can do duvet covers, sheets etc too.

 

We've had ours over a year now as we only had a 1600w inverter installed which isn't enough to run a washing machine.... But I wouldn't go back now. I find it easier to be honest and quicker than an automatic!

 

Its pretty companct not like the old twin tubs and we just have it in the engine room!

 

That's not a bad idea, although having never used one I hadn't considered it! Unfortunately I don't have an engine room (I was seriously tempted, but other requirements and real-life costs got in the way ). Once I'm on-board I'll have a measure of the space I have available and go from there.

 

 

Thank you to everyone for your input. It's greatly appreciated.

[jonathanA]

 

Thanks Bottle, I was hoping to find the draw of the motor only, but couldn't find that either. I could negate the need for the heating element using preheated water, but can't turn the drum by hand to help that bit .

 

 

 

 

Its unlikely the motor is the significant part of the 2300W, most like something like 1.5Kw of heating and 7-800w (or about a 1hp) motor. you might get away with that motor on your 4 amp supply, although when the motor starts it will exceed 4A briefly. Guess it depends on whats limiting the supply to 4A ?

 

The unit looks to be pretty unsophisticated (no fancy digital control panel etc) so it may well be fine on a MSW inverter, i'd be tempted to try it and see what happens.

[ITAfloat]

Hi,

You could buy an inverter charger with power assist, such as the Victron Multi-plus 3000. Other makes available. They can do something called "power assist", so whatever your shore power (within reason) they can temporarily make up the missing current needed by taking battery power for the limited time the water is being heated or motor is starting up, then return to shore only and whatever is left goes back to charging the batteries.

 

I use this facility as do many other boaters to boost poor supplies or even small generators to run washing machines. As for full disclosure, be aware I also supply and install these. I've seen this work flawlessly on a 6A supply, but you do need good batteries, a decent sized battery bank and the shoreline to be stable (i'e, does't trip out because you turned something else on (on the 230v side) or you shoreline is actually shared with the next boat).

 

If you have a decent (130A+) sized alternator, then it may be possible to run solely from your engine via a large inverter and not via the shoreline, but that's another discussion. Also consider a midi washing machine (3/4 size).

 

ITA

[by'eck]

I agree with ITA's suggestion.

 

I think you have to consider the other benefits of an expensive Victron rather than just adding it to the cost of a washing machine.

 

You will have a powerful mains charger.

 

A powerful pure sine wave inverter allowing use of almost any AC appliance you have onboard.

 

Much simpler AC wiring.

[Kae]

Thank you ITA and by'eck. I think I ultimately a decent inverter/charger such as the Victron is the way forward, but with all the recent expenditure on buying the boat and doing external preventative maintenance, I think this will be something to consider in the new financial year.

The boat is currently fitted with a Sterling Quasi 1800w inverter, Sterling charger (don't know the size yet) and Galvanic isolator.

When I look at the equipment I will be using onboard (for my work), and the UPS's I would need to buy to support them if I trip the power, then it's part of the way towards a Victron. My budget unfortunately doesn't stretch to £1800 at the moment though.

 

Is the Victron the recommended unit? (I don't believe in buying cheap as I've been caught out in the past), but having a quick look around, I can't find another system that has the power assist and dual battery bank charging (for leisure and starter)?

 

Thanks for everyone's help, this is very much my first foray into off-grid living (or at least, only a bit on-grid!).

[nb Innisfree]

When we started out on our boat design we decided to go for all DC with either a genny or a large inverter just for the w/m but when I saw what a Victron Multiplus could do I was hooked, decided then to up the budget and get one. As we then decided to go for 230 volt lighting straight off the consuner unit a simple spur for lighting and one for sockets down each side of the boat made things much easier.

 

Best couple of grand or so we spent. Victron has been totally reliable and hasn't missed a beat in over seven years, on constantly 24/7 for five of those.