Japanese paraffin heater

[Narrowboat Communicator]

We want to get some additional heat in our back cabin, we don't want a fire in their and have diesel heating throughout our boat, but from the engine room to back cabin is unheated.

When we leave the engine room fire doors open, it is warm in their but not cosy. I have been looking at the modern Japanese direct injection flue less heaters. The one I'm looking at is 3.2kw and runs up to 50 hours on 5 litres of fuel.

Thermostatically controlled, I know they will use 2.8 amps per hour and on preheat ( approximately 3 minuets) 70 amps. So sounds ideal when out cruising.

They are safe with carbon monoxide and air quality metering, burn almost 100% efficiently so condensation and fumes are things off the past!! Well so they tell me!!

Has anyone had any experience of this type of heater?

 

Here is the web page if you want to see it

 

http://www.dry-it-out.com/inverter-5006-3kw-liquid-fuel-heater-free-fuel

 

Look forward to your feedback

Richard

Nb Communicator

[Chop!]

Did you notice that it requires a 240v mains power in order to work.

Also paraffin was, at one time, cheap to buy, now it costs a bomb, so how much would the 'paraffin extra' cost?

[LoneEcho]

Interesting looking heater. I only looked at the site on my phone, so may have missed something, but could not see anything about condensation. I was under the impression that burning parrafin, diesel, meths etc produced water as a by product.

[trackman]

If it discharges its fumes of combustion into the cabin it will cause high levels of water vapour in there.

 

Paraffin is a hydrocarbon fuel, so burning it must produce oxides of carbon and water vapour. Efficiency of combustion has no relevance to the water. Burn hydrogen, get water, that's the chemistry. More efficient combustion will just make water more efficiently!

 

Condensation will almost certainly be a real problem if this kind of heating is used without an external flue to exhaust the fumes outside the boat.

 

It is just the same with LPG fuels, these gases (propane & butane usually) are hydrocarbons too, and are very good producers of water vapour when burned.

 

The only way to avoid condensation from burning such fuels is to direct the fumes from the combustion process outside via a flue.

 

I would also be very wary of CO production whatever the marketing claims. Things can and do go wrong and the risk will always be there, so I would be very sure to have working CO alarms in place if using such heaters.

[Narrowboat Communicator]

Did you notice that it requires a 240v mains power in order to work.

Also paraffin was, at one time, cheap to buy, now it costs a bomb, so how much would the 'paraffin extra' cost?

 

240v not issue really, large battery bank and 3000w mastervolt inverter combo,

Fuel is 92p litre from Wheaton Aston, that's premium grade.

It would only be used in wkend breaks at night to boost air temperature to 26 degrees, in summer it's not a problem.

We have 2 marine tanks with 1200 watts of heaters so need to warm room sufficiently to keep tanks at correct temperature. We go out once a month in winter on average so the heater would seldom be used.

[Arthur Brown]

Simple facts infer that the sales pitch may be of limited accuracy ( what's new )

First a litre of kerosene is about 11KWHr so for eleven kilowatt hours you burn a litre and that is assuming that it is 100% efficient usually oner allows 2 - 3 KwHrs just going up the flue to make it draw.

Second hydrocarbon fuels will make water carbon and hydrogen will make carbon dioxide and water and some carbon monoxide.

[Narrowboat Communicator]

The more I think about it the more "trouble" it sounds,

I have got my spare Morso stove but liked the idea if thermostatically controlled air temperature. Had bad luck with eberspacher in the past and it is expensive for occasional use.

Electric heater out question,

Any other ideas???

[Narrowboat Communicator]

Just for reference our sleeping quarters are under tug deck, back cabin 60 ft away and will have engine room ( fire doors) shut so the heater would be in its own zone so to speak.

Our lister air cooled gives out enough heat for day time and back cabin wood holds heat well until late evening. So Heater would only be on at night and on its own, pigeon hatch is adjar in engine room and has lots of ventilation in back cabin also.

Sounds like I am convincing myself

:-)

 

http://www.householdinnovations.co.uk/inverter-5006-32kw-portable-paraffin-heater--free-fuel-227-p.asp

 

That's another good web page stating fumes and condensation things of the past, I may just buy it to see for myself!

[Grace and Favour]

Condensation will be a problem (I strongly suspect)

[coventrylad]

I like it , It just sounds too good, perhaps I am just too sceptical, It would be perfect for my back cabin as well. Go on treat your self and give us all a report.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

As others say condensation may be a problem same as the color heaters. Esso blue and Aladdin pink where the premium paraffins all others are kerosene and smell when burned with wicks.

[lewisericeric]

Watch out - I was just looking at these for my cabin in the back as an extra heat source. I was looking at the KSP270 which is the same thing but doesn't require electrics and they've put the manual on the webpage for that one.

 

It states:-

 

"Must not be installed below ground level"

 

"Prohibited for use in boats , caravans and vehicle cabins"

Edited January 3, 2013 by lewisericeric

[Narrowboat Communicator]

I like it , It just sounds too good, perhaps I am just too sceptical, It would be perfect for my back cabin as well. Go on treat your self and give us all a report.

I'm on eBay and about to buy it now.......

 

Watch out - I was just looking at these for my cabin in the back as an extra heat source. I was looking at the KSP270 which is the same thing but doesn't require electrics and they've put the manual on the webpage for that one.

 

It states:-

 

"Must not be installed below ground level"

 

"Prohibited for use in boats , caravans and vehicle cabins"

 

Good call !!! I suppose it has something to do with fumes not escaping? Would work in the gas locker though lol

Seriously I'll double check with manufacture about the model I was looking at, don't fancy like drifting off for a eternity just yet.

What about gas cookers and ovens? Surly they would fall into the same bracket of not to be used in boats, cabins etc.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

[lewisericeric]

Not really sure to be honest about why or why not you can't use certain appliances.

 

With gas though, the LPG is kept outside the cabin space so guess its something to do with the paraffin being inside the heater which you would then have in the cabin space of your boat

[Odana]

I used these to heat my house in Japan years ago and they were great. I imagine they're even better now . As a quick heat Id be interested to hear how you find it in a boat.

[rjasmith]

I'd just like to add what others have said regarding kerosene and paraffin. In the UK these two names have specific meanings.

 

My house is heated using an oil fired pressure jet boiler and this uses the commonly available kerosene or 28 second (Redwood viscosity scale) domestic heating oil (not to be confused with diesel/gas oil which are both 35 second viscosity). My boiler has a flue/chimney and all the exhaust goes to the external atmosphere. It would be horrendously smelly if it was released into the house!

 

Paraffin in the UK sense is "a form of kerosene" but is generally assumed to be a much more highly refined version of it, made to be acceptable when burned in a heating device that exhausts to the atmosphere in the room ie as this Japanese heater does.

 

Back in the 50s and 60s large nos of people in UK used similar heaters and as a result the oil companies produced vast quantities of refined kerosene (paraffin) and called it eg Esso Blue, Alladin Pink etc. These were reasonably cheap and didn't smell too badly when burned in a household heater.

 

Nowadays hardly anyone in UK uses these heaters and so the oil companies have stopped making the refined paraffin in large quantities hence it will certainly not be cheap.

 

My sort of central heating boiler is still quite common for houses in rural areas that don't have gas and therefore the "rough paraffin" or kerosene is certainly still available and priced at around 60 - 70p per litre plus 5% VAT. I burn around 2500 litres of this each year!

 

The "Tozane" referred to on the Japanese heater website will, I imagine, be the same or a better spec than eg Esso Blue and I can't believe exchanging that for the generally available grot kero is going to give a good result!!

 

A bit perhaps but I also have an old Ferguson TED20 tractor from 1951 to play with. This can run on Tractor Vaporising Oil (TVO) which is yet another version of Kerosene (Paraffin).

 

TVO was produced by adding back to crude kerosene the aromatic hydrocarbons taken out of yet more crude kerosene. The depleted kerosene made "Esso Blue" type paraffin for 1950s domestic heating and the enriched kerosene made TVO for 1950s tractors. It was a fabulous win-win story for the oil refineries that has now fallen by the wayside completely.

 

I have to make my own TVO for the Fergie now!

 

Richard

Edited January 4, 2013 by rjasmith

[jonathanA]

how does jet fuel compare ? thats just another form of kerosene too isn't it ? presumably its more refined than 28 second/heating oil and I seem to recall a big hoo hah recently about the airlines not paying duty/VAT on jet fuel so could be a good option - if you could siphon a bit out of the nearest 747...

[rjasmith]

how does jet fuel compare ? thats just another form of kerosene too isn't it ? presumably its more refined than 28 second/heating oil and I seem to recall a big hoo hah recently about the airlines not paying duty/VAT on jet fuel so could be a good option - if you could siphon a bit out of the nearest 747...

 

I could be wrong but I think that may be along the lines of TVO - ie crude kerosene with aromatics added. This was done for tractors like the Ferguson TED20 to raise the Octane rating of grot kerosene (around 20) to around 50 for the modified petrol engine (made by the Standard Car Co) fitted to the tractor. The present day recipe for TVO involves mixing 28 second kerosene heating oil with some petrol. The petrol provides the missing aromatics.

 

Precisely what the requirements are for jet engines I've no idea but I'm pretty sure it isn't just grot heating kerosene and will be enriched with all sorts of stuff.

 

(I'm just imagining catching a nearby 747 using a narrow boat!)

 

Richard

[WotEver]

how does jet fuel compare ?

 

http://www.alglas.com/jet_fuel.htm

 

Tony

 

ETA:

The most common jet fuel is a kerosene and paraffin oil-based fuel

Edited January 4, 2013 by WotEver

[Narrowboat Communicator]

I have rang several people today and they told me basically the same, to be used in any well ventilated area, not in basements where toxic fumes can build up.

I gave gone and ordered mine today :-)

[coventrylad]

I have rang several people today and they told me basically the same, to be used in any well ventilated area, not in basements where toxic fumes can build up.

I gave gone and ordered mine today :-)

Keep me informed fella please. I am soo tempted to order one, so wait with bated breath for your report.

Edited January 4, 2013 by coventrylad

[Old git]

We want to get some additional heat in our back cabin, we don't want a fire in their and have diesel heating throughout our boat, but from the engine room to back cabin is unheated.

When we leave the engine room fire doors open, it is warm in their but not cosy. I have been looking at the modern Japanese direct injection flue less heaters. The one I'm looking at is 3.2kw and runs up to 50 hours on 5 litres of fuel.

Thermostatically controlled, I know they will use 2.8 amps per hour and on preheat ( approximately 3 minuets) 70 amps. So sounds ideal when out cruising.

They are safe with carbon monoxide and air quality metering, burn almost 100% efficiently so condensation and fumes are things off the past!! Well so they tell me!!

Has anyone had any experience of this type of heater?

 

Here is the web page if you want to see it

 

http://www.dry-it-out.com/inverter-5006-3kw-liquid-fuel-heater-free-fuel

 

Look forward to your feedback

Richard

Nb Communicator

 

Hi,

Surely easier to extend the existing heating, after all a couple of pipes through an engine room sounds real easy compared to the messing about buying new appliances and flues that take up valuable space .

 

Old git

[Arthur Brown]

Sadly you will likely find the needed grade of kerosene hard and expensive to buy. It will likely NOT run on gas oil or red diesel. My local camp shop sells kerosene in 4litre cans for about £8.00 the same as diesel.

 

Source the fuel FIRST.

[blackrose]

I used these to heat my house in Japan years ago and they were great. I imagine they're even better now . As a quick heat Id be interested to hear how you find it in a boat.

 

Another boater who used to live in Japan. I was in Tokyo from 1988-98.

 

I have a 2.5kw paraffin heater in my boat. It's a wick type that looks a bit like this and cost about 80 quid on special offer from B&Q several years ago. http://zibro.co.uk/1097/zibro-wick-heaters.htm

 

It's rarely used - just for backup in case I'm out of wood & coal, off shore power and it's not that cold outside (only 2.5kw). However, contrary to what everyone says, when I do use it I never see any signs of condensation. I don't get much condensation in my boat anyway, but certainly no extra condensation with the heater on. The biggest issue with it is that when you turn it on it smells of fumes until it heats up so you have to open windowns and hatches for 5 mins, and when you switch it off it does the same thing - but while it's running it's brilliant!

 

Definitely worth having if you can find one cheap enough and it has all the safety features. Mine cuts out if tilted beyond a certain angle and will also cut out if there's not enough air.

Edited January 4, 2013 by blackrose

[blackrose]

Sadly you will likely find the needed grade of kerosene hard and expensive to buy. It will likely NOT run on gas oil or red diesel. My local camp shop sells kerosene in 4litre cans for about £8.00 the same as diesel.

 

Source the fuel FIRST.

 

Why is it hard to buy? Even the expensive Homebase sells 4 litre containers of the correct grade kerosene for about 6 quid and you can still find kerosene for about a pound a litre if you find a hardware shop that fills your own container (they may be hard to find).

 

As I said, it's not a fuel you'd want to use all the time, but a litre of kerosene will last about 4 hours in my heater, so it's not too bad.

Edited January 4, 2013 by blackrose