Heating minefield

[Psycloud]

I don't really want to heat a minefield, but I would like to heat the boat/water

 

Despite my efforts with the insulation, this doesn't help create the heat in the first place and the rear cabins are pretty cold compared to the front where the stove is and the wife would like hot water without the need to run the engine (as she needs showers at 7 in the morning) and not to wake up like frosty the snowman.

 

As mentioned before, we have a non-functioning Eberspacher under the stern deck, the wiring looks to be in a mess and the tank (not sure if it's for water or fuel) is just laying next to it. Presumably this once heated the water in the calorifier and the radiators that run throughout the 64ft NB.

 

I'm drowning in info from this site and can't make a decision about what is best so I think I need a visit from a reputable heating engineer who specialises in narrowboats who can tell us if the Eber is worth fixing or if we should be looking at something else entirely - gas boiler for hot water? back boiler for the Villager Chelsea duo? new diesel heater? bubble stove?

 

Who would you recommend in the Milton Keynes area who could come to Willowbridge Marina and give us some viable options with prices?

 

Many thanks

 

David

[Chris Pink]

From my (limited) experience of old eberspachers and the like I would recommend a morco water heater - it is unlikely to cost any more that a professional fixing the thing you've got.

 

A back boiler won't produce instant hot water so you'l still have to wait (maybe a long time) for the water to heat after stoking the stove. My radiators are cold if the stove stays in all night, although if you have an insulated tank you may be able to keep the water warm overnight.

 

The real solution (in my opinion) is to fit a back boiler for the radiators and some hot water and a morco 61E for instant showers

[Psycloud]

Hi Chis - sorry for my ignorance, is the Morco gas or another fuel? Where do you site it and does it heat the calorifier or is it on demand?

 

Thanks

 

David

[Chris Pink]

Hi Chis - sorry for my ignorance, is the Morco gas or another fuel? Where do you site it and does it heat the calorifier or is it on demand?

 

Thanks

 

David

 

 

it's an instantaneous gas heater. best place, is as near as you can to where you want the water, be it shower or kitchen sink. it won't heat the calorifier.

 

 

http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-5-2/Water_Heaters/D61E.html

[bizzard]

Instantaneous gas hot water heaters like the Morco are the quickest and cheapest way of heating water apart from a calorifier but they are only more economical for water heating when cruising along ''not when stationary unless your perhaps charging batteries at the same time'' and still take quite a long time to heat.

The gas Morco gas heater Chris mentioned would normally be sited on the galleys bulkhed adjacent to the bathroom so it will serve both the galley hot water taps and the bathroom hot taps and shower.

[Psycloud]

it's an instantaneous gas heater. best place, is as near as you can to where you want the water, be it shower or kitchen sink. it won't heat the calorifier.

 

 

http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-5-2/Water_Heaters/D61E.html

 

Ok, well probably the bulkhead Bizzard mentioned sounds ideal location. It's central to the kitchen and both bathrooms and also right behind the shower cubicle. The gas locker is in the front of the boat (30ft from this bulkhead) and there is pipework to the cooker (15ft from the bulkhead) so presumably this will be extended or will a new feed be required?

 

If I go for this option, who could fit in the MK area?

 

Thanks

 

David

[real_vibes]

Our 15 year old morco is excellent

[Psycloud]

Instantaneous gas hot water heaters like the Morco are the quickest and cheapest way of heating water apart from a calorifier but they are only more economical for water heating when cruising along ''not when stationary unless your perhaps charging batteries at the same time'' and still take quite a long time to heat.

The gas Morco gas heater Chris mentioned would normally be sited on the galleys bulkhed adjacent to the bathroom so it will serve both the galley hot water taps and the bathroom hot taps and shower.

 

I am almost sold on this idea - does it need to be vertical or is it OK to put on the side wall?

 

EDIT: our water pressure for the shower is currently provided by the cold water pump feeding one of those tanks in the rear (accumulator?). This system would need altering somehow to accomodate the boiler?

 

Thanks

Edited December 11, 2012 by Psycloud

[n.b.Goldie]

Perhaps consider having more than one method to heat your water. You can then choose which one to use depending on prevailing circumstances.

 

On my previous boat Tyro I heated the water via the engine/calorifier when cruising, via the Squirrel back-boiler/calorifier in the winter when moored up and via a Morco instantaneous gas heater when moored up in the summer.

 

When moored up batteries were charged via a gas powered Honda eu2i generator. The boat engine was then the back-up.

 

Living on a boat is more comfortable when one has 'back-up' systems.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[bizzard]

I am almost sold on this idea - does it need to be vertical or is it OK to put on the side wall?

 

EDIT: our water pressure for the shower is currently provided by the cold water pump feeding one of those tanks in the rear (accumulator?). This system would need altering somehow to accomodate the boiler?

 

Thanks

A slight angle is ok but better on a vertical bulkhead and ideally flue vented out through the roof with the proper downdraught diverter chimney.

[Psycloud]

Perhaps consider having more than one method to heat your water. You can then choose which one to use depending on prevailing circumstances.

 

On my previous boat Tyro I heated the water via the engine/calorifier when cruising, via the Squirrel back-boiler/calorifier in the winter when moored up and via a Morco instantaneous gas heater when moored up in the summer.

 

When moored up batteries were charged via a gas powered Honda eu2i generator. The boat engine was then the back-up.

 

Living on a boat is more comfortable when one has 'back-up' systems.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

 

As you are relatively local, can you recommend someone to fit a Morco?

 

Thanks

 

David

[romarni123]

Cant you have the calorifer heated up by mains electric (like an immersion heater) so you can have hot water anytime.

[Psycloud]

A slight angle is ok but better on a vertical bulkhead and ideally flue vented out through the roof with the proper downdraught diverter chimney.

 

OK, it's doable on the bulkhead - thanks

[bizzard]

OK, it's doable on the bulkhead - thanks

If your handy they are not difficult to fit as long a you follow the makers instructions that comes with a new one and of course bide by the BSS safety regs for these types of water heaters heaters.

[Proper Job]

Without wanting to further complicate things to much, an altenative could be an Alde gas boiler. Either the vetical 2928 or the compact type ones.

 

This can be used in conjunction with a calorifier and could provide suplimentary heating via radiators to the colder parts of the boat when the chill really hits

[Psycloud]

Cant you have the calorifer heated up by mains electric (like an immersion heater) so you can have hot water anytime.

 

That is an option although I think they're quite heavy on electric and if we're not at the Marina then I don't think the inverter would handle it.

[n.b.Goldie]

As you are relatively local, can you recommend someone to fit a Morco?

 

Thanks

 

David

 

Mine was fitted by a chap from Coventry. If you talk to a chap called Ray Ayres at Willowbridge he might do it for you. He did work for me on Tyro (although not the Morco) and I was very pleased with what he did.

 

If he cannot do it for you he will probably know who will.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[BEngo]

Ok, well probably the bulkhead Bizzard mentioned sounds ideal location. It's central to the kitchen and both bathrooms and also right behind the shower cubicle. The gas locker is in the front of the boat (30ft from this bulkhead) and there is pipework to the cooker (15ft from the bulkhead) so presumably this will be extended or will a new feed be required?

 

If I go for this option, who could fit in the MK area?

 

Thanks

 

David

 

I am not sure from your post if your bulkhead location is in the bathroom or not. Just in Case....You (or anyone else) cannot legally fit an open flued instantaneous water heater (like a Morco) actually in a bathroom. This regulation also applies to houses and was introduced because so many people were killed by 'Ascot' type water heaters in bathrooms.

 

The heater will need a gas feed and a 15mm cold water feed off the existing systems. A Morco 61E may need a 1/2 inch gas feed - much will depend on the exact length and number of bends in the gas-pipe run. The gas pipe must be big enough to allow all the appliances to burn correctly (blue flames) without excessive pressure drop when they are all going full out at once. That is a BSS check point.

 

It will also need a hole in the roof (about 4in diameter) for its flue, a suitable flue and draught diverter inside (the diverter usually comes with the heater, but check) and a terminal outside. Many people successfully use a brass mushroom vent as a Morco flue terminal, but there are other purpose designed but less robust products.

 

The 15mm hot water outlet from the heater will need to be connected to your hot water pipework going to the shower and taps.

 

Make sure your fitter is Gas-safe registered with an endorsement for boats.

 

It might be worth a PM to Mike the Boilerman of this parish as he periodically heads toward Braunston.

 

N

[Psycloud]

Without wanting to further complicate things to much, an altenative could be an Alde gas boiler. Either the vetical 2928 or the compact type ones.

 

This can be used in conjunction with a calorifier and could provide suplimentary heating via radiators to the colder parts of the boat when the chill really hits

 

Hmmm, now this looks like a direct replacement for the Eberspacher? How much would it cost to fit on top of ther £1,100 purchase price? I think heating the existing radiators and the calorifier might be preferable to just having hot water. I don't think I'm handy enough to do this myself :/

[mrsmelly]

I don't really want to heat a minefield, but I would like to heat the boat/water

 

Despite my efforts with the insulation, this doesn't help create the heat in the first place and the rear cabins are pretty cold compared to the front where the stove is and the wife would like hot water without the need to run the engine (as she needs showers at 7 in the morning) and not to wake up like frosty the snowman.

 

As mentioned before, we have a non-functioning Eberspacher under the stern deck, the wiring looks to be in a mess and the tank (not sure if it's for water or fuel) is just laying next to it. Presumably this once heated the water in the calorifier and the radiators that run throughout the 64ft NB.

 

I'm drowning in info from this site and can't make a decision about what is best so I think I need a visit from a reputable heating engineer who specialises in narrowboats who can tell us if the Eber is worth fixing or if we should be looking at something else entirely - gas boiler for hot water? back boiler for the Villager Chelsea duo? new diesel heater? bubble stove?

 

Who would you recommend in the Milton Keynes area who could come to Willowbridge Marina and give us some viable options with prices?

 

Many thanks

 

David

 

 

Hi

 

Solid fuel stove and paloma/morco instant gas. Job done easy to fit and both very reliable.

 

Tim

[larkshall]

Can these Morco's feed a power shower?,

[mrsmelly]

Can these Morco's feed a power shower?,

 

Hi

 

Probably not. They are designed for boat/caravan use not houses. The flow of water through them is restricted to enable it to be heated. They will work with a shower very well, we sometimes use ours for that use if we have no other hot water ready at the time we want it. I beleive power showers are pumped hot water? though of course may be wrong and would be better suited to house use.

 

Tim

[Proper Job]

Hmmm, now this looks like a direct replacement for the Eberspacher? How much would it cost to fit on top of ther £1,100 purchase price? I think heating the existing radiators and the calorifier might be preferable to just having hot water. I don't think I'm handy enough to do this myself :/

The Alde has got the advantage over the paloma/morco solution in that it will run rad's. They can be gas hungry when used constantly for normal heating (that's what solid fuel stoves are for), but it's handy just to inject a bit of heat in remote areas when it's really cold or on those odd chilly evenings when you don't want to light the stove.

 

My Alde has a timer/programmer. I switch it on before I go to bed, let it run on the pilot flame during the night, an hour before I get up, it switches on and I've got a nice hot calorifier of water for showering in the morning.

 

As you say, the compact unit may well fit in where the Eber currently resides

 

Can these Morco's feed a power shower?,

No

 

Think of it the same as a normal electric shower. If you want it cool, it'll have a high flow rate. If you want it megga hot, it will just trickle out. The flow rate regulates the temperature (with a safety high temp cut out)

 

If you want a high temp/high flow rate, you need a cylinder of piping hot water

[Psycloud]

I am not sure from your post if your bulkhead location is in the bathroom or not. Just in Case....You (or anyone else) cannot legally fit an open flued instantaneous water heater (like a Morco) actually in a bathroom. This regulation also applies to houses and was introduced because so many people were killed by 'Ascot' type water heaters in bathrooms.

 

The heater will need a gas feed and a 15mm cold water feed off the existing systems. A Morco 61E may need a 1/2 inch gas feed - much will depend on the exact length and number of bends in the gas-pipe run. The gas pipe must be big enough to allow all the appliances to burn correctly (blue flames) without excessive pressure drop when they are all going full out at once. That is a BSS check point.

 

It will also need a hole in the roof (about 4in diameter) for its flue, a suitable flue and draught diverter inside (the diverter usually comes with the heater, but check) and a terminal outside. Many people successfully use a brass mushroom vent as a Morco flue terminal, but there are other purpose designed but less robust products.

 

The 15mm hot water outlet from the heater will need to be connected to your hot water pipework going to the shower and taps.

 

Make sure your fitter is Gas-safe registered with an endorsement for boats.

 

It might be worth a PM to Mike the Boilerman of this parish as he periodically heads toward Braunston.

 

N

 

The bulkhead is between the galley and the bathroom so could mount on the kitchen side.

 

I'm almost certain the lady of the ship will be wanting the radiators working though so I suspect we will be going down the route suggested by Proper Job.

[Psycloud]

Hmmm - seems like there is some copper in our system so I don't think we can use the Alde compact. Why is this so damn difficult!