The unknown pitfalls of buying a narrowboat.

[Graham.m]

I fear that I need to remove names to fit in with FR&G.

 

Nick

 

Just for us uneducated would it be OK to include a postcode or even a village name or something like that?

Edited November 28, 2012 by Theo

[Tiger 1057]

The methods used by these brokers in this particular instance appear to me to be similar as those used by bent estate agents in the bad old days. They would screw the vendor by purchasing the property through a complicit 3rd party then re sell it on to a waiting prospective viewer who they knew was interested and had probably paid for a survey.

 

They got their agents fees and the mark up on the re selling of the property. In effect they screwed the vendor and the purchaser in order to line their greedy dirty trousers. Most of them came a cropper in the end and hopefully these brokers will go the same way.

 

I will hopefully be looking for a boat and as a result of being on this forum a short while I know which brokers I will be registering with and those who I will be giving a very wide berth. One I shall be registering with is the person who gave you some very good information regarding the sale of goods act etc.

 

Get your deposit back, threaten for the survey fee and all the very best with finding a decent boat. Look at this way - some things are not meant to be!

[Leonie]

Oof I've had experience with that marina too.

 

The deposit they ask for is non-refundable but by the sounds of things you should be legally entitled to yours back due to the changing (some would say shonky) nature of the transaction.

 

I did not go through with the purchase of boat I had surveyed with them and they tried to buy the survey off me for £100 ish quid, I didn't sell it to them. In the end the surveyor brokered the sale of it to someone else. I can't remember how much for now but I remember being happy as I'd recouped most of what I'd spent on it.

 

The marina you refer to are the 'used car salesmen' of the canal world. They allowed me to transfer my deposit to any other of their boats for sale.

[Athy]

due to the changing (some would say shonky) nature of the transaction.

Some might say that indeed, if they knew what it meant. What an expressive word - I assume that it means "shady, underhand"? Did you invent it or is it regional dialect?

Have a greeno for teaching me a new word.

[Leonie]

Some might say that indeed, if they knew what it meant. What an expressive word - I assume that it means "shady, underhand"? Did you invent it or is it regional dialect?

Have a greeno for teaching me a new word.

 

It's not a new word mate, I'm an Australian ;-)

 

Shonky definition herein

Edited November 28, 2012 by Leonie

[Athy]

It's not a new word mate, I'm an Australian ;-)

 

Shonky definition herein

Ahhh! Colonial dialect. Good on yer, mate.

I got the definition more or less right anyway.

[Dominic M]

Shonky? That's pukkah.

[Theo]

Just for us uneducated would it be OK to include a postcode or even a village name or something like that?

 

If Daniel were to face legal action I imagine that he would be blamed if the company or individual were identifiable by the man on the Clapham omnibus. I would think that identification could be gleaned by pm'ing the person making the comment. that would keep it out of the "public" forum.

 

N

 

 

[cobaltcodd]

I viewed three boats there and was surprised they were still floating I'm sure, just like garages, you get dealers who deal in the top of the range, middle of the range and the bottom of the range as there is a market for all three price ranges. I suppose this Marina takes on and sells some of the older stuff, and there's nothing wrong with that at all, but they still should be honest and use good business ethics and practises.

[RLWP]

Shonky? That's pukkah.

 

Don't you just love English? Made up words like shonky and adopted words imported from India by soldiers like pukkah. Truly a representation of the zeitgeist

 

Bostin

 

Richard

Edited November 28, 2012 by RLWP

[Athy]

Don't you just love English? Made up words like shonky and adopted words imported from India by soldiers like pukkah. Truly a representation of the zeitgeist

 

Bostin

 

Richard

No doubt about it, English is the creme de la creme.

[Leni]

Don't you just love English? Made up words like shonky ....

 

I disagree with the previous link's definition of shonky! A 'shonky shop' was a shop which sold shoddy or second-hand goods. The word comes from Yiddish, where a 'shonniker' was a peddler.

[Leonie]

I disagree with the previous link's definition of shonky! A 'shonky shop' was a shop which sold shoddy or second-hand goods. The word comes from Yiddish, where a 'shonniker' was a peddler.

 

That sounds like a much stronger etymology to me.

[Albion]

No doubt about it, English is the creme de la creme.

Tsk, tsk, surely you mean 'crème de la crème' Mr French Teacher?

Roger

[RLWP]

I disagree with the previous link's definition of shonky! A 'shonky shop' was a shop which sold shoddy or second-hand goods. The word comes from Yiddish, where a 'shonniker' was a peddler.

 

That does sound more likely. Another source of words - migrants

 

Richard

[Drayke]

I have to own up, I'm a newbie to boat buying. A newbie but not a complete idiot.

 

The premise was simple: find a boat that suited my needs and looked acceptable, go and see the various candidates at marinas and canals across England and Scotland, then put in an offer subject to survey.

 

That was what I read one did, so I did likewise. I settled after several months of looking, on a boat called "Manu Tahi" being sold at ******* Marina . When I saw it, the asking price was £ 19,950. Several weeks after first seeing it, I found it was still available. To me, it offered everything I wanted and above all, it had a good "feel" about it. I'd discounted dozens of other craft and was happy to put an offer on the boat. My first offer was refused but my second accepted - £ 17,950. It had a homely feel to it but was tired and in need of work on the interior which I accepted.

 

I booked a survey with an independent surveyor included in a list provided by Whilton. The surveyor, Craig Allen even said I could be on hand when he looked at the boat. As it would let me see all the problems first hand with an expert safety examiner, I jumped at the chance.

 

On Monday, 19th November, I met Mr A**** at *******. We were unable to start with the hull survey as a crane would using the area adjoining the slipway but as I had travelled down from Perthshire in Scotland, someone at the marina made sure we were able to start on other elements of the survey.

 

It was an eye-opener. Behind a pleasant enough exterior, a series of major issues needed to be dealt with. The boat failed its survey on several safety issues but also a major insurance one. The hull needed to be re-plated.

 

Oddly, I wasn't undaunted and went back to the marina office to give them an update on the surveyor's verbal comments. A couple of salesmen gave me a price per foot for re-plating but pointed out they were not necessarily the cheapest and there were other companies who could do the work.

 

By the end of the week, I had the full survey report and a copy had per my instructions been sent to *******. After a couple of days, they put a cost on the safety and insurance work of £ 14,010 inclusive of V.A.T. The surveyor's Conclusion & Valuation had stated, "Upon completion of all Insurance and boat Safety works, I feel the offer of £ 17,950 to be a reasonable one."

 

I was told by *******that after commission, the vendor would get £ 2,240. Someone had mentioned that the boat was his pride and joy and as such, news of the work needing undertaken must have been heart-breaking. I really felt for the seller and was prepared to increase my price to cushion the blow slightly. That was how things were left on Sunday.

 

On the afternoon of Tuesday 27th November I was contacted by Whilton and told that the vendor was not prepared to sell at the agreed price but wanted their original price of £ 20,950. I had already paid a £ 1,000 deposit which is meant to stop gazumping and yet, here I was effectively being gazumped. I countered with a verbal offer of £ 19,495 which a short time later I was told had been accepted.

 

That was when things took an unexpected turn. A salesman called ****** from *******told me that they had bought the boat from the vendor and waived their commission as they would make their money on doing the re-plating work. I was suddenly in a situation where I was no longer able to consider other companies but being forced to accept *******'s price and their terms. They made it clear that the plating could not be started until late January or February which I had stated was unacceptable. As my plan had always been to have the boat transported to Scotland by road, I saw no problem in taking it to anyone who could do the work. Needless to say I remembered the words of the salesman who had said there were other companies who could re-plate for less.

 

I'm assured by ******* that these are standard practices which I would love to doubt. Setting that aside however, there is the issue of ******* buying a boat at a knock-down price based on a survey that I had paid for. I asked if the survey money would be reimbursed as a result but was told they would only ever do a hull survey which would cost £ 250 (not the £ 500 I was charged). My reaction was to ask for that but was told it would not be forthcoming if I decided not to proceed.

 

If this is a commonplace practice, I despair as it seems that both vendor and purchaser are entering into a contract with each other, which the seller's agents then rip up and ignore.

 

My understanding is this: I was buying a boat from a private individual subject to survey. That survey showed work needed to be carried out and either the vendor would carry it out and sell at the agreed price, or reduce the price by the amount. For *******to ignore what I believed to be a binding contract and buy the boat and sell to me at a higher price is ridiculous and not what I would have expected from a reputable company.

 

If these are standard practices, then I do feel people need to be aware of them. I'm sure such practices would not be tolerated in the housing market, or even car sales.

Have you checked to see if this brokerage company is a member of any federations such as the British Marine Federation, if they are try contacting them. But as most people have said WALK away from this boat.

 

Drayke.

[Athy]

Tsk, tsk, surely you mean 'crème de la crème' Mr French Teacher?

Roger

Bien sur, but my computer keyboard is set up for English and cannot type the grave accents on "creme". It can't type the circumflex on "sur" either.

[Graham.m]

If Daniel were to face legal action I imagine that he would be blamed if the company or individual were identifiable by the man on the Clapham omnibus. I would think that identification could be gleaned by pm'ing the person making the comment. that would keep it out of the "public" forum.

 

N

 

Ah my old friend the gentleman on the Clapham Omnibus. :-)

 

Ah but an opinion is not actionable, hence my post expressed my opinion as I believe the OP's post is. Now I don’t know who Daniel is but the publisher in this case is the OP and myself if his rules are lawyer written. Hence identifying such places by name etc would not affect Daniel but the OP and myself after W has obtained Norwich Pharmaceutical Order or two and the defence is simple the truth.

[Athy]

Ah my old friend the gentleman on the Clapham Omnibus. :-)

 

Ah but an opinion is not actionable, hence my post expressed my opinion as I believe the OP's post is. Now I don’t know who Daniel is but the publisher in this case is the OP and myself if his rules are lawyer written. Hence identifying such places by name etc would not affect Daniel but the OP and myself after W has obtained Norwich Pharmaceutical Order or two and the defence is simple the truth.

If you don't know who Daniel is, you better learn real quick, bwoy. He's the boss around here!

[LoneWolf]

Ah my old friend the gentleman on the Clapham Omnibus. :-)

 

Ah but an opinion is not actionable, hence my post expressed my opinion as I believe the OP's post is. Now I don’t know who Daniel is but the publisher in this case is the OP and myself if his rules are lawyer written. Hence identifying such places by name etc would not affect Daniel but the OP and myself after W has obtained Norwich Pharmaceutical Order or two and the defence is simple the truth.

 

 

As far as i understand it Daniel is the site owner and as such is legally responsible for the site contents.

If the business concerned took objection to what you or the OP posted then Dan would be the one who would get sued.

Truth may be the defence but it would be Dan's time and money doing the defending.

[Guest]

AFAIK that's correct and didn't the recent Lord McAline/Twitter episode show that the 'wronged' can also come after individual posters???

[boathunter]

The methods used by these brokers in this particular instance appear to me to be similar as those used by bent estate agents in the bad old days. They would screw the vendor by purchasing the property through a complicit 3rd party then re sell it on to a waiting prospective viewer who they knew was interested and had probably paid for a survey.

 

They got their agents fees and the mark up on the re selling of the property. In effect they screwed the vendor and the purchaser in order to line their greedy dirty trousers. Most of them came a cropper in the end and hopefully these brokers will go the same way.

 

Funny you should say that as an estate agent recently tried the same for my house. I've lived in Ely for 20+ years. I know how estate agents value houses here. I know FOR A FACT which one is used by all solicitors to get a quick sale in event of death, divorce etc. They actually are a good estate agent and sell houses at the right price rather than bugger about. However A.N.other estate agent valued our house (divorce) £30K less and then tried to pressure me into agreeing sole agency then and there at knock-down price. Hmmm - I told him to stuff it. There's already £50K profit in the house for someone who can be arsed to sort it out so that was taking the pee.

 

I went to the unmentionable marina in my search and thought they were so carp I didn't even bother to look at any boats. I really did smell a rat. All they could be bothered to do was proudly demonstrate that their sale boards were arranged in price order! He then proceded to leave a resident on hold while they laughed about how they couldn't be arsed to deal with an alternator problem and what they would say to fob her off, and spent 10 mins chatting to his GF on the phone instead. They were quite happy to do this while I browsed the boats for sale boards. You'd have to be insane, or very knowledgeable about boats to buy here.

[Erie Canal]

I am so sorry to hear your news. Sadly you hear a lot of similar stories. All I can say is, I had a near miss with a certain Marina and all I lost was a lot of time, petrol and patience. I did walk away from a boat I liked very much, but I do have to say I have since found a wonderful little boat, right on my doorstep that has been looked after and was ready to go, literally!! It even had a set fire for me. Count your blessings and walk away there are loads of great boats out there from truely lovely people - just ask around real boat people.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Erie Canal

[Graham.m]

As far as i understand it Daniel is the site owner and as such is legally responsible for the site contents.

If the business concerned took objection to what you or the OP posted then Dan would be the one who would get sued.

Truth may be the defence but it would be Dan's time and money doing the defending.

 

mmmm my lawyers would not agree with you

 

If you don't know who Daniel is, you better learn real quick, bwoy. He's the boss around here!

 

:-) Now could that be a threat

[Psycloud]

Hmmm - this all sounds very familiar! We wanted to buy a boat from the same place and the exact same happened re: survey/plating/owners pride and joy. We decided to take our 1k back and walk away, we lost the survey money too but it was a small price to pay considering the boat also needed an identical (in terms of £) amount of work doing. We also used the same surveyor who i think saved us in the long run!

Edited November 28, 2012 by Psycloud