C&RT - what waterways could it take over?

[Joseph]

Hello everyone

 

Not sure if this should be in the News section, as it is more in the nature of a speculation. Or even a new parlour game!

 

It goes like this. Suppose C&RT had substantial resources and could indeed act like a National Trust for the waterways. Like the NT, it could take over properties and interests with or without endowment, or indeed by bidding. This seems unlikely in the present financial circumtsnances, but it could happen. After all, the real NT took over the Wey in the 1960s. And the Stratford...............

 

So, partly for fun, what waterways should it (ideally) take, and what are the priorities? Here are my suggestions:

 

1. The Bridgewater Canal. Obvious link between several C&RT waterways.

2. The Wey. Leads off "its" river the Thames.

3. The Basingstoke. Leads off the Wey.

4. The Foss. Seems isolated, hardly used. York City Council might unload.

5. The lower Trent. Links the Chesterfield, Fossdyke etc.

6. The (developing?) Fens Waterway Link. Not sure what is happening with this.

7. The Cam. Expensive!

8. The Middle Level waterways. Another link.

9. The Lincolnshire fens. Or are they coming anyway?

10. Neath and Tennant Canals. Being restored slowly, and they are linked.

 

And some "choking on cornflakes" suggestions:

 

1. The Warwickshire Avon.

2. Chelmer & Blackwater Navigation. What would IWA think?

3. The Broads................!

 

Well, following that last one I had better leave swiftly!

 

Just for fun, what would people add, or subtract?

 

Bye for now

 

Joseph

[John V]

did Bizzard put you up to this?

[Guest]

 

3. The Broads................!

 

 

I think the Broads authority might have an opinion on that....

[Bobbybass]

On the Thames this year...several lock keepers said that the EA was amalgamating with CaRT in 2015...and running the Thames...

Is that what you mean..?

 

The keeper at Bolters..said that was fine..as he was retiring in 2014...

Said it had been told to them at a 'meeting'..?

 

Other Thames keepers..backed this up...

Edited November 4, 2012 by Bobbybass

[jenlyn]

On the Thames this year...several lock keepers said that the EA was amalgamating with CaRT in 2015...and running the Thames...

Is that what you mean..?

 

The keeper at Bolters..said that was fine..as he was retiring in 2014...

Said it had been told to them at a 'meeting'..?

 

Other Thames keepers..backed this up...

I've heard this as well, though to be honest, I don't see CRT as being capable of managing the Thames.

[Bobbybass]

I've heard this as well, though to be honest, I don't see CRT as being capable of managing the Thames.

Well...I took it with a pinch of salt....from the first keeper...but I queried others and they seemed definite it had been talked of at a 'meeting'..

The date was also 'consistent'....2015

[Guest]

Well...I took it with a pinch of salt....from the first keeper...but I queried others and they seemed definite it had been talked of at a 'meeting'..

The date was also 'consistent'....2015

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/government-statement-on-transfer-of-state-owned-waterways-into-new-waterways-charity

 

The Government has today (Monday 28 February 2011) announced its preference for a phased transfer of state-owned waterways in England and Wales into the planned new waterway charity, with British Waterways’ canals and rivers moving in 2012 and the Environment Agency (EA) navigations moving in 2015.

 

Is this now dead in the water or still a proposal?

Edited November 4, 2012 by The Dog House

[jenlyn]

Well...I took it with a pinch of salt....from the first keeper...but I queried others and they seemed definite it had been talked of at a 'meeting'..

The date was also 'consistent'....2015

Parliament did envisage this would come about. There was discussion and I believe agreement on going ahead with it. It's mentioned in one of the reports.

[ditchcrawler]

I've heard this as well, though to be honest, I don't see CRT as being capable of managing the Thames.

I think that depends on what you expect them to do. No reason why they couldn't "contract out" the flood control etc. to EA.

[jenlyn]

I think that depends on what you expect them to do. No reason why they couldn't "contract out" the flood control etc. to EA.

True, never thought of that.

[ditchcrawler]

I think the Broads authority might have an opinion on that....

Maybe I should raise it at the meeting later this month, I think it would cause a few to splutter. Some of them like to think its a National Park.

[the grinch]

I've heard this as well, though to be honest, I don't see CRT as being capable of managing the Thames.

 

I don't see Cart being able to manage what it already has!! without adding more to it!

[jenlyn]

Maybe I should raise it at the meeting later this month, I think it would cause a few to splutter. Some of them like to think its a National Park.

Robin Evans knows a thing or two about parks

[magpie patrick]

Hello everyone

 

Not sure if this should be in the News section, as it is more in the nature of a speculation. Or even a new parlour game!

 

It goes like this. Suppose C&RT had substantial resources and could indeed act like a National Trust for the waterways. Like the NT, it could take over properties and interests with or without endowment, or indeed by bidding. This seems unlikely in the present financial circumtsnances, but it could happen. After all, the real NT took over the Wey in the 1960s. And the Stratford...............

 

So, partly for fun, what waterways should it (ideally) take, and what are the priorities? Here are my suggestions:

 

1. The Bridgewater Canal. Obvious link between several C&RT waterways. I think the owners would be quite keen on this, although it would need a substntial dowry

2. The Wey. Leads off "its" river the Thames.But the Wey is maintained in avery different manner, and I wouldn't like CRT getting their hands on it, they'd ruin it

3. The Basingstoke. Leads off the Wey.BW were offered this a few years ago, and politely declined

4. The Foss. Seems isolated, hardly used. York City Council might unload..Makes sense, take it on a get some moorings up there

5. The lower Trent. Links the Chesterfield, Fossdyke etc.ABP for a good reason (shipping from the humber) and free to lesiure boaters

6. The (developing?) Fens Waterway Link. Not sure what is happening with this.AN EA Scheme anyway

7. The Cam. Expensive!hmmm

8. The Middle Level waterways. Another link.But free anyway!

9. The Lincolnshire fens. Or are they coming anyway?Most of them, but not the Witham Drains

10. Neath and Tennant Canals. Being restored slowly, and they are linked.Why? They are connected to each other but not to the main system!

 

And some "choking on cornflakes" suggestions:

 

1. The Warwickshire Avon.

2. Chelmer & Blackwater Navigation. What would IWA think?

3. The Broads................!

 

Well, following that last one I had better leave swiftly!

 

Just for fun, what would people add, or subtract?

 

Bye for now

 

Joseph

[Joseph]

Steady on, everyone!!

 

I did say it was only for fun. I'm not sure if I would be in favour if any new transfers were mooted. Just wondered what could go on a fantasy list. And maybe some of that could become real if C&RT proves to be good at managing its waterways and resourced to take on more.

 

My understanding is that for all the waterways for which the EA is navigation authority (Anglian, Medway, Thames), those navigation functions are going to C&RT from 2015. Other functions of rivers will stay with the EA, as is the case with the Severn or the Weaver at present.

 

Continuing the fantasy, I suppose one would hope to add all sorts of waterways that are under restoration. And one might add to the list others whose present managers might wish to trasnfer these to a larger body. So here's a couple more:

 

11. Grand Western Canal (Devon CC part).

12. Market Weighton Canal.

13. Driffield Navigation.

 

Sorry, wasn't remotely trying to start any sort of controversy. Just something to ponder.

 

Cheers

 

 

Joseph

[sueb]

Cart are getting rid of the history on the canals. Selling off anything they can sell and turning lock beams into 'works of art' I certainly hope they don't get their hands on anything else to ruin

[NB Lola]

I think they should take over the derby and reinstate it

[magpie patrick]

Steady on, everyone!!

 

I did say it was only for fun. I'm not sure if I would be in favour if any new transfers were mooted. Just wondered what could go on a fantasy list. And maybe some of that could become real if C&RT proves to be good at managing its waterways and resourced to take on more.

 

My understanding is that for all the waterways for which the EA is navigation authority (Anglian, Medway, Thames), those navigation functions are going to C&RT from 2015. Other functions of rivers will stay with the EA, as is the case with the Severn or the Weaver at present.

 

Continuing the fantasy, I suppose one would hope to add all sorts of waterways that are under restoration. And one might add to the list others whose present managers might wish to trasnfer these to a larger body. So here's a couple more:

 

11. Grand Western Canal (Devon CC part).

12. Market Weighton Canal.

13. Driffield Navigation.

 

Sorry, wasn't remotely trying to start any sort of controversy. Just something to ponder.

 

Cheers

 

 

Joseph

 

 

Well onthe fantasy one how about them taking over the Dorset and Somerset and actually finishing it! Frome needs a canal

[John V]

Well onthe fantasy one how about them taking over the Dorset and Somerset and actually finishing it! Frome needs a canal

 

The Romford canal could be finished, be handy for the Essex boys!

[magpie patrick]

This would be an interesting addition

 

Compstall

Edited November 5, 2012 by magpie patrick

[MartinClark]

As I understand it, there is currently no navigation authority on the River Avon between Widcombe Locks and Pulteney Weir in Bath.

[magpie patrick]

As I understand it, there is currently no navigation authority on the River Avon between Widcombe Locks and Pulteney Weir in Bath.

 

I can see the possibility, but the Avon was made navigable to Pulteney Mill and was then taken over by the Kennet and Avon (it was more complicated than that, but that is the gist of it). In turn, the K and A was taken over by the GWR, which was taken over by the BTC and ultimately BWB

 

What I can see did is that the Avon was declared cruiseway to "the bottom lock in Bath", The K and A was not classified and thus was a remainder waterway. When the K and A became cruiseway the bit between Widcombe bottom lock and Pulteny Weir was not reclassified. I suspect, however, CRT are still the navigation authority.

 

I do wonder under what rights and auspices the trip boats run to Bathampton, but then I have read works that suggest there may have been navigation rights to Chippenham at one time.

[PaulG]

I think that depends on what you expect them to do. No reason why they couldn't "contract out" the flood control etc. to EA.

On the Warwickshire Avon, the structures associated with the navigation, such as the lock and the weirs, are owned by ANT.

Moveable sluices and other flow control devices are owned and operated by the EA, so there is precedent for this arrangement.

[magpie patrick]

On the Warwickshire Avon, the structures associated with the navigation, such as the lock and the weirs, are owned by ANT.

Moveable sluices and other flow control devices are owned and operated by the EA, so there is precedent for this arrangement.

 

When we went down tyhe Avon in 2008, we shared a few locks with a hire boat that had three EA amployees on board, they were on board for four days inspecting the sluices. I wonder how this went down with their wives "It's work, honest love"

[MartinClark]

When the K and A became cruiseway the bit between Widcombe bottom lock and Pulteny Weir was not reclassified. I suspect, however, CRT are still the navigation authority.

 

The report from the Marine Accident Investigation Branch into the sinking of the trip boat "Swan" below Pulteney Weir in 2004 says:

"The stretch of the River Avon between Pulteney Weir and Widcombe Lock (Figure 17), has no navigation or licensing authority."

(paragraph 2.4 http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Swan_.pdf )

 

The report goes on to say:

"Despite the fact that the section of the River Avon between Pulteney weir and Widcombe lock has no navigation authority, under common law, owners of property immediately adjoining the river have riparian ownership of the river. This type of ownership does not confer authoritative powers over the river, however, the riparian owner has certain rights and responsibilities regarding the watercourse and the riverbank.

"The riparian owner of some, if not all of the stretch of river in question, is the local council, Bath and Northeast Somerset Council. The council was aware of its responsibilities concerning the riverbanks on this stretch of river. It had financed major repairs to the weir and had installed lifesaving equipment at various points along the riverbanks, but it did not license or in any way manage the craft operating on the river."

 

I knew I'd read it somewhere.