£50,000 fine for H&S breach

[mayalld]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19681380

 

A rather fuller account at

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/rnn-nw-worsleydrydocks.htm?eban=rss-press-release

 

All sounds like a rather worrying precedent, which can only lead to dry dock operators declining to hire out for DIY use, or lots of extra paperwork to ensure that the owner undertakes to provide himself with safety equipment.

[John Holden]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19681380

 

A rather fuller account at

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/rnn-nw-worsleydrydocks.htm?eban=rss-press-release

 

All sounds like a rather worrying precedent, which can only lead to dry dock operators declining to hire out for DIY use, or lots of extra paperwork to ensure that the owner undertakes to provide himself with safety equipment.

 

I don't see why! The company were lax in their supply of equipment in that the board didn't have handrails, a situation that would never have been countenanced in industry (well not legally). All they have to do to cover themselves is to provides boards with hand rails and ensure they are properly secured.

 

I did read in the local paper that the company was to cease trading as a result of the financial loss.

[sueb]

It was standard practice to just have planks. It won't be any longer

[cheshire~rose]

Sadly it often takes a tragedy like this for people to look closely at the way work is carried out on their premises. If it means that it makes them a safer place for people to be able to carry out repairs then that has to be a good thing.

 

 

I do not understand why it is such a big deal to ensure a safe method of getting on and off boats while in dry dock.

[mayalld]

I don't see why! The company were lax in their supply of equipment in that the board didn't have handrails, a situation that would never have been countenanced in industry (well not legally). All they have to do to cover themselves is to provides boards with hand rails and ensure they are properly secured.

 

I did read in the local paper that the company was to cease trading as a result of the financial loss.

 

The company was indeed lax in their supply of equipment, and other companies will learn a valuable lesson from this case.

 

They will avoid the issue, by NOT supplying the boards, and making it the hirers responsibility to provide a safe means of access to the boat.

[ditchcrawler]

It was standard practice to just have planks. It won't be any longer

It was standard practice to have scaffolding lashed together on poles without handrails but its not any more.

 

This was not the first incident of this kind, this one turned out much better as shown in his blog written by his kids because he was in intensive care

 

http://alonthecanal.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/someone-has-hit-pause-button.html

[mayalld]

Sadly it often takes a tragedy like this for people to look closely at the way work is carried out on their premises. If it means that it makes them a safer place for people to be able to carry out repairs then that has to be a good thing.

 

Making a place as safe for a DIYer as it is for a professional is more difficult (because you have to assume that the amateur will make mistakes due to lack of experience.

 

I fear that the long term outcome of cases like this will be "Yes, we have a dry dock. No, it isn't available for DIY bookings" The DIYer will be kept safe, because he won't have anywhere to be dangerous.

[Barry]

The company was indeed lax in their supply of equipment, and other companies will learn a valuable lesson from this case.

 

They will avoid the issue, by NOT supplying the boards, and making it the hirers responsibility to provide a safe means of access to the boat.

 

I don't think they can - as I understand it, if it is their place of work they are responsible for the safety of everyone on their site, not just their employees. If people have hired the drydock the drydock owners cannot allow anyone to work in an unsafe manner.

 

There is no cop out

[GSer]

Perhaps it will just end up that people won't be allowed access to their boats whilst in the drydock.

[luctor et emergo]

So, that will be the end of working on your own boat, or even staying on it, whilst it is in dock. Like almost every garage, there will be a fenced viewing area, for you to watch the workers, working on your boat. But only after you have filled in the health and safety disclaimer, read the six page induction booklet, and watched the 30 minute 'how to stay safe in a cordoned off area' video.

 

I feel very sorry for the family of this man, but where is the line? Does your gang plank have railings? Should there be a railing at both sides of the plank? Hang on, working at height? Where is your safety line?

Edit... hang on, you are working in a pit? Not on your own you don't. What, on your own, with a hazardes substance? Where is your respirator? And don't even think about working within 10 feet of water, without a life preserver.

 

Powertools? Training. Certification.

 

How many of you have blacked a boat, in a dry dock? And how many of you had a means, to catch drips and spillages, to avoid them landing on the floor, or in that bit of water running over the floor?

What, you mean you let bitumen get into the water? Did you read the label?

Edited September 23, 2012 by luctor et emergo

[the grinch]

50k fine!!! whilst i agree safety should be paramount to land a fine of this magnitude will serve only 1 purpose and that is to force yet another small business out of business!! well done HSE yet more people on the dole relying on the few still stupid enough to bother working!

[luctor et emergo]

50k fine!!! whilst i agree safety should be paramount to land a fine of this magnitude will serve only 1 purpose and that is to force yet another small business out of business!! well done HSE yet more people on the dole relying on the few still stupid enough to bother working!

 

 

Can't help but agree. Greeny etc etc

[Timleech]

Perhaps it will just end up that people won't be allowed access to their boats whilst in the drydock.

 

That could happen.

Remember though that the Worsley docks are particularly deep, the area has suffered subsidence since the docks were built.

News reports of the Stourport incident say that the man fell 'almost 10 feet', which suggests he may have fallen from the roof of the boat.

People do tend to forget the extra risks when their boat is on dry dock, they will move around the gunwales or on the roof quite blissfully because that is what they are used to doing while the boat is afloat. The risks from falling off a boat floating in a small canal are quite modest, the landing is likely to be soft if a little soggy.

 

Tim

[Barry]

So, that will be the end of working on your own boat, or even staying on it, whilst it is in dock. Like almost every garage, there will be a fenced viewing area, for you to watch the workers, working on your boat. But only after you have filled in the health and safety disclaimer, read the six page induction booklet, and watched the 30 minute 'how to stay safe in a cordoned off area' video.

 

I feel very sorry for the family of this man, but where is the line? Does your gang plank have railings? Should there be a railing at both sides of the plank? Hang on, working at height? Where is your safety line?

 

Its easy to extrapolate unreasonably. Working at height doesn't require a safety line if a guard rail can be fitted. There can be no health and safety disclaimer. Its not so hard to provide a mobile walkway with handrails for employees or hirer's use. If an 8 ft drop exists in a dry dock that fall can be fatal - it is not so unreasonable to find a way to prevent that potentially fatal fall. A handrail round the edge would do that

 

Boat gang planks don't have railings but then they don't need them - there is no 8 foot drop onto concrete when using your gangplank on the canal

 

Health and safety is not so difficult. Accepting that it is necessary is another matter

[bizzard]

A gang plank with one or two handrails would also need to be heavy and held firmly at either end, for if a person stumbles onto one of the railings the whole plank could tip over with them on it.

Safer to have a secured at the top ladder down into the dock and another ladder in the dock also secured at the top up to the boat.

Lets face it its a bit risky for 60 plus year olds 'like myself' to be doddering around on wonky planks with an eight foot plus drop beneath.

[luctor et emergo]

That could happen.

Remember though that the Worsley docks are particularly deep, the area has suffered subsidence since the docks were built.

News reports of the Stourport incident say that the man fell 'almost 10 feet', which suggests he may have fallen from the roof of the boat.

People do tend to forget the extra risks when their boat is on dry dock, they will move around the gunwales or on the roof quite blissfully because that is what they are used to doing while the boat is afloat. The risks from falling off a boat floating in a small canal are quite modest, the landing is likely to be soft if a little soggy.

 

Tim

 

Best not mention Weils disease then. Or drowning. Or breaking a leg.

 

One day, elfinsafty will go that far. Don't complain to me, when they do.

 

 

Saving employed people, from the actions ( or in-actions) of an unscrupoulous employer is one thing. Putting a small business out of business, because of an accepted practice, is wrong.

 

When did you last go into a dry dock, and remonstrated with the owner, that the plank you had for access to your boat, was not complient with h& s standards? Go on...when?

[Barry]

 

Saving employed people, from the actions ( or in-actions) of an unscrupoulous employer is one thing. Putting a small business out of business, because of an accepted practice, is wrong.

 

 

The law says they have a responsibility. Claiming a historically accepted (but still dangerous) practise does not absolve them of that responsibility.

 

They were either ignorant of, or ignored, their responsibility. The fine will be designed to spread the message so that similar operations will take notice.

 

Health and safety legislation and guidance has been around for a long time. Those who ignore it will have to pay the price when they get caught with their head in the sand. But the families of those who are seriously injured or killed have to pay a hefty price because they have their heads in the sand

[John Holden]

50k fine!!! whilst i agree safety should be paramount to land a fine of this magnitude will serve only 1 purpose and that is to force yet another small business out of business!! well done HSE yet more people on the dole relying on the few still stupid enough to bother working!

 

But it will focus the minds of other dock owners and maybe prevent another fall.

Anyway, won't the owners have public liability insurance?

[luctor et emergo]

I'd like to cpoy and paste, but to be honest...

 

Health and safety is important, of course. So is protection of employees. But individuals, enter into a certain environment, at their own risk, and their own choosing.

 

Ok, I'll say, in the open. Did anybody force this man to cross that plank? Did he have a choice to do so, or request a saver passage?

 

Was it the dock yard's fault, that he fell down?

 

But it will focus the minds of other dock owners and maybe prevent another fall.

Anyway, won't the owners have public liability insurance?

 

 

You've been here before' hav'nt you?

[steven wilkinson]

as I see it, the issue is that the boat yard supplied - and allowed the use of - an improper means of accessing and exiting the boat, and when the man stumbled, there was no means of preventing him falling onto the concrete floor below.

 

It's quite straightforward!

[Barry]

I'd like to cpoy and paste, but to be honest...

 

Health and safety is important, of course. So is protection of employees. But individuals, enter into a certain environment, at their own risk, and their own choosing.

 

Ok, I'll say, in the open. Did anybody force this man to cross that plank? Did he have a choice to do so, or request a saver passage?

 

Was it the dock yard's fault, that he fell down?

 

 

The law doesn't allow 'enter at your own risk' to be a valid excuse

 

The hirer enters an environment that he is not familiar with, may be ignorant or unaware of its dangers. Thus he is at greater risk than he may be aware of. The person who owns that environment must be aware of, and responsible for, the risk that the hirer is subject to.

 

Nobody forced that man to cross that plank of course but he may never have considered how dangerous a practise it was, may never have been aware that an alternative was available or required. It was not the dockyard's fault that he fell down, but they hold the responsibility that he fell to his death

[luctor et emergo]

That, then, is the end of us working on our own boats, in a dock.

 

Simple

[John Holden]

That, then, is the end of us working on our own boats, in a dock.

 

Simple

 

Why? Other dock owners may just decide to make proper provision.

 

It can't be that hard surely.

 

By the way, the report I read put some of the blame on the (erected) cratch cover making egress from the boat more dangerous.

Edited September 23, 2012 by John Holden

[GUMPY]

That, then, is the end of us working on our own boats, in a dock.

 

Simple

No I never use dock equipment as they charge a fortune for it round here.

I always use my own......

[gazza]

not really.

 

what needs to happen is for anyone concerned with this kind of activity to think about how they conduct their site.

 

all that is needed is a risk assessment, a method statement, site induction and training where relevant.

 

it will mean costs will go up.

 

this is the way of the world these days.

 

as an aside, i was challenged at work for not wearing a hi vis whilst steam cleaning some plant in a yard on my own. there was to be no forklift or vehicle movements that day, i am still trying to work out what or whom was at risk.

 

health and safety directives are normally a very good idea, its usually how they are applied thats the problem.