Mooring with centre line or tight ropes

[Barry]

I think Iain was using the diagram to show the difference between Breast ropes and springs with Bow and Stern ropes, not advocating the use of all three simultaneously.

 

Fair enough. You worked out something that I didn't - Ta

[Chris Pink]

I suspect it's generally frowned upon to beat anything into the canal bed. So has anyone invented a contraption that is a pair of scaffold poles with rond anchors welded into them and third of the way up? They'd be excellent at preventing the boat riding up onto the bank in flood waters; could in some situations act as piling with sliding mooring chains on them; they wouldn't damage the canal bed, and would be hard to dislodge in short term flooding. If no one has invented please note the Pudding copyright is on that! Please place your orders now.

 

I thought from your worry it must be a river. Which bit of canal is likely to flood to that extent. The canals are usually pretty well controlled. No, scaff piling is not the best idea in the canal bed.

[Domino_2]

Surely the best way way to avoid listing on river moorings due to rising/falling water levels is not to moor of rivers

[Naughty Cal]

Surely the best way way to avoid listing on river moorings due to rising/falling water levels is not to moor of rivers

 

But you miss out all of the best bits then

[Chris Pink]

....being a cheapskate. I moor a proper shaped boat with fore and aft lines at 45 degrees outboard and then two extra lines running from the same cleats to a central stake. all line are approximately the same length (although there is some spare to make the fore and aft line longer.

 

As good as the springs outlined above?

 

it keeps the boat parallel to the bank (my main motivation) and seems to do the same job as the springs in the diagrams in preventing fore aft surges but with half the rope.

 

comments please.

[Naughty Cal]

....being a cheapskate. I moor a proper shaped boat with fore and aft lines at 45 degrees outboard and then two extra lines running from the same cleats to a central stake. all line are approximately the same length (although there is some spare to make the fore and aft line longer.

 

As good as the springs outlined above?

 

it keeps the boat parallel to the bank (my main motivation) and seems to do the same job as the springs in the diagrams in preventing fore aft surges but with half the rope.

 

comments please.

 

We only use two ropes to "spring" our boat. As our boat is quite short our normal 12m ropes are sufficient to do this. The bow and stern lines are sent out at approx. 45 degrees fore and aft, secured to the bank, then the "loose ends" of the lines taken back to our centre spring cleat on the boat and secured there. We find that this is sufficient in most cases at keeping the boat level against the bank.

 

If we are moored on one of the bigger rivers or the coast we do send an extra couple of lines ashore, one fore and one aft to reduce our boats habit of rolling around to point her bow at the bank/pontoon. (Only really a problem on a boat with a chubby middle )

[bizzard]

....being a cheapskate. I moor a proper shaped boat with fore and aft lines at 45 degrees outboard and then two extra lines running from the same cleats to a central stake. all line are approximately the same length (although there is some spare to make the fore and aft line longer.

 

As good as the springs outlined above?

 

it keeps the boat parallel to the bank (my main motivation) and seems to do the same job as the springs in the diagrams in preventing fore aft surges but with half the rope.

 

comments please.

The greater the differential between high and low water the the longer the springs need to be. ie crossing over.

[Bones]

Yes, I did mean green. Sorry. D'uh!

 

It does make me nervous that the swim of the boat could ride up over the bank, particularly. If the rest were to follow

Gawd knows what I'd try to wedge in between the boat and the bank to prevent this though Apart from strapping the boat pole vertically to the side of the boat, and not sure how long that would last before it snapped...

 

 

If it's a real danger where you moor then a piece of scaff tube beaten in to the river bed is the best thing to keep you off the bank.

 

scaffold poles can, I am told, be purchased from a local builders merchant. They sometimes deliver.

[Chris Pink]

We only use two ropes to "spring" our boat. As our boat is quite short our normal 12m ropes are sufficient to do this. The bow and stern lines are sent out at approx. 45 degrees fore and aft, secured to the bank, then the "loose ends" of the lines taken back to our centre spring cleat on the boat and secured there. We find that this is sufficient in most cases at keeping the boat level against the bank.

 

If we are moored on one of the bigger rivers or the coast we do send an extra couple of lines ashore, one fore and one aft to reduce our boats habit of rolling around to point her bow at the bank/pontoon. (Only really a problem on a boat with a chubby middle )

 

I don't have a centre cleat but I can do a centre pin - I am guessing it's effectively the same.

 

is that extra as well as springs?

 

The greater the differential between high and low water the the longer the springs need to be. ie crossing over.

 

there seems no benefit to having them longer than the fore aft lines?

[Naughty Cal]

I don't have a centre cleat but I can do a centre pin - I am guessing it's effectively the same.

 

is that extra as well as springs?

 

Yes. If there is any great flow on the water NC has a habit of trying to roll around her middle and sit with her bow towards the bank. The additional lines bring her back level against the bank.

 

We use them as a matter of course on the coast to spread the loads around and stop any snatching on the ropes as larger vessels pass often pretty quickly with big wakes.

 

Also use them as a matter of course when moored on larger rivers for added security.

[bizzard]

I don't have a centre cleat but I can do a centre pin - I am guessing it's effectively the same.

 

is that extra as well as springs?

 

 

 

there seems no benefit to having them longer than the fore aft lines?

Not on canals or some rivers with only a perhaps a foot or two's difference between high and low water,no, but fully tidal where the difference can be as much as 30'or more and depending on what state 'the height of the water' when you set them out.You would be needing spring ropes maybe twice or three times longer than your boat.

[BlueStringPudding]

I currently have the river flowing into the canal coz of flooding on the GU do I have the worst of both worlds

[bizzard]

I currently have the river flowing into the canal coz of flooding on the GU do I have the worst of both worlds

If its not salty i wouldn't worry too much.

[BlueStringPudding]

Okay, springs fans. Having spent the earlier part of this evening tinkering with different ways of doing springs, here are my findings:

 

A spring line from the bow cleat backwards is pointless. It crosses that much gas locker and bow gunnel with the shape of my boat, that it pins the boat down in the water. It's more dangerous in rising waters than having no spring rope there at all. A short spring rope at 90 degrees to the Bow line would be better but again limits up and down movement so defeats the point.

 

A spring rope attached with a shackle to the front most fender loop at gunnel level is more successful but likely to snap off the metal loop if the boat moves around a lot. That rope loose does very little. Kayaks were throwing the boat against the bank! That rope tighter tightens the Bow line, making it more restrictive to up and down boat movement, but also back and forth movement. So a compromise somewhere in between is probably best, and crossed fingers that the fender loop doesn't break.

 

A tight spring rope at the back, much like the front one, restricts and tightens the Stern rope so seems pointless. A loose spring rope at the back makes no difference at all and I felt quite a bump when a narrowboat just passed. Again a compromise in th tension of that rope seems sensible.

 

All in all I see not a great deal of difference using long springs to using just loose Bow and Stern ropes. What's everyone else's experience of doing springs in the way shown in the diagrams earlier in this thread?

Edited June 12, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[bizzard]

Okay, springs fans. Having spent the earlier part of this evening tinkering with different ways of doing springs, here are my findings:

 

A spring line from the bow cleat backwards is pointless. It crosses that much gas locker and bow gunnel with the shape of my boat, that it pins the boat down in the water. It's more dangerous in rising waters than having no spring rope there at all. A short spring rope at 90 degrees to the Bow line would be better but again limits up and down movement so defeats the point.

 

A spring rope attached with a shackle to the front most fender loop at gunnel level is more successful but likely to snap off the metal loop if the boat moves around a lot. That rope loose does very little. Kayaks were throwing the boat against the bank! That rope tighter tightens the Bow line, making it more restrictive to up and down boat movement, but also back and forth movement. So a compromise somewhere in between is probably best, and crossed fingers that the fender loop doesn't break.

 

A tight spring rope at the back, much like the front one, restricts and tightens the Stern rope so seems pointless. A loose spring rope at the back makes no difference at all and I felt quite a bump when a narrowboat just passed. Again a compromise in th tension of that rope seems sensible.

 

All in all I see not a great deal of difference using long springs to using just loose Bow and Stern ropes. What's everyone else's experience of doing springs in the way shown in the diagrams earlier in this thread?

[bizzard]

That's the trouble with most canal boats,cleats are not really in the right place for spring ropes,they need a clear run and not snag anywhere. You could tie a heavyish weight onto the middle of both your existing mooring ropes at the normal mooring angle,'not breast style' these will keep the boat snug to the bank. Or you can include a couple of feet of strong Bungee cord to both of these mooring lines which would do the same job of keeping the boat snug but will also self adjust for differing water levels. You can i believe buy purpose made ones.

 

I don't know what happened then BSP, i did an edit and its now appeared.

Edited June 12, 2012 by bizzard

[Naughty Cal]

Okay, springs fans. Having spent the earlier part of this evening tinkering with different ways of doing springs, here are my findings:

 

A spring line from the bow cleat backwards is pointless. It crosses that much gas locker and bow gunnel with the shape of my boat, that it pins the boat down in the water. It's more dangerous in rising waters than having no spring rope there at all. A short spring rope at 90 degrees to the Bow line would be better but again limits up and down movement so defeats the point.

 

A spring rope attached with a shackle to the front most fender loop at gunnel level is more successful but likely to snap off the metal loop if the boat moves around a lot. That rope loose does very little. Kayaks were throwing the boat against the bank! That rope tighter tightens the Bow line, making it more restrictive to up and down boat movement, but also back and forth movement. So a compromise somewhere in between is probably best, and crossed fingers that the fender loop doesn't break.

 

A tight spring rope at the back, much like the front one, restricts and tightens the Stern rope so seems pointless. A loose spring rope at the back makes no difference at all and I felt quite a bump when a narrowboat just passed. Again a compromise in th tension of that rope seems sensible.

 

All in all I see not a great deal of difference using long springs to using just loose Bow and Stern ropes. What's everyone else's experience of doing springs in the way shown in the diagrams earlier in this thread?

 

Some decent fairleads will guide your ropes into a more suitable location.

[BlueStringPudding]

Off to google the term "fairleads"...

[bizzard]

Off to google the term "fairleads"...

Fairleads are fitted in strategic positions to 'lead' guide a rope from the 'cleat,dolley,bollard',clear of any obstructions and away to the securing point preventing any rope chaffing and snagging on the way.

People with canal boats are fond of sticking them on cabin roofs to guide their centre ropes away without chaffing paintwork.

Sea boats especially sailing vessels have many fairleads apart from the mooring line ones to guide ropes, along with pulleys to prevent snagging and chaffing.

[carlt]

Off to google the term "fairleads"...

[Naughty Cal]

Fairleads are fitted in strategic positions to 'lead' guide a rope from the 'cleat,dolley,bollard',clear of any obstructions and away to the securing point preventing any rope chaffing and snagging on the way.

People with canal boats are fond of sticking them on cabin roofs to guide their centre ropes away without chaffing paintwork.

Sea boats especially sailing vessels have many fairleads apart from the mooring line ones to guide ropes, along with pulleys to prevent snagging and chaffing.

 

All the ones we have seen fitted to narrowboats have been spindly little things that will bend as soon as the rope tugs on them. If you are going to fit them get decent ones that are man enough for the job.

[bizzard]

That's a good standard example Carl.I can't do pics yet so have to describe with words.

[RLWP]

Don't bother. Fairleads are for sailing boats - you won't find them on a working boat

 

Richard

[carlt]

Don't bother. Fairleads are for sailing boats - you won't find them on a working boat

 

Richard

Define "working boat".

 

I'd say the boat attached to the fairlead, in my picture, has done its fair share of work.

[Paul C]

Don't bother. Fairleads are for sailing boats - you won't find them on a working boat

 

Richard

 

So how do you get the rope from eg a front central bollard, to clear the bodywork of a canal boat when using a spring from the bow?