Little woolwich cratch?

[Laurence Hogg]

Edited to correct myself!

 

I have a copy of that same drawing Chris showed. It is labelled B42. So this is definitely for a Royalty boat?

 

I was led astray because the other drawing I have, for mast and stands, is stamped Harland and Wolff and dated 1936. This presumably is for a large Woolwich?

 

"Details of Elm Runner Block, Oak Stands, Mast and Mast Case...Gangplank,...False Crutch, Oak Protecting Battens" 10 December 1931 Is B42 part of the "B" series drawings which are the proposed boats types. Yarwoods and Walkers re drew most of them to their own specs, H&W tended to use abridged copies in some instances so the 1936 drawing you have probably has a H&W stamp on it. I have seen both blueprint and b&w copies of the mast and case drawing, both carrying H&W stamps.

[GSer]

Ref. The elm runner block is obviously an important part of the boats build but where and how was it used?

[Chris Pink]

It was a method of taking up the tow; the towing line (snubber) runs from the motor through the running blocks on the top planks to a removable t-stud on the butty roof. The butty steerer would let out the rope, strapping when the butty was the right distance.

 

Used on the Grand Union. A few other places as well but I'm less certain of this.

 

Could be dangerous to someone working on the top planks and also to anyone, a child maybe, in the butty cockpit as the rope was paying out.

 

I think on a working boat they gave an extra element of control but would be out of place on a restoration usually towed "empt"y in cross straps

[Ray T]

It was a method of taking up the tow; the towing line (snubber) runs from the motor through the running blocks on the top planks to a removable t-stud on the butty roof. The butty steerer would let out the rope, strapping when the butty was the right distance.

 

Used on the Grand Union. A few other places as well but I'm less certain of this.

 

Could be dangerous to someone working on the top planks and also to anyone, a child maybe, in the butty cockpit as the rope was paying out.

 

I think on a working boat they gave an extra element of control but would be out of place on a restoration usually towed "empt"y in cross straps

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2012 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

Ref. The elm runner block is obviously an important part of the boats build but where and how was it used?

At the moment this video seems to be running a bit slow.

 

But when working well, there are lots of shots of Lucy being towed loaded using running blocks.......

 

[GSer]

That's all excellent info, many thanks.

 

So the snubber ran through the runner blocks and was tied off to the tee stud on the butty's cabin top, did the towing load pull on the t stud and so put strain on the running blocks or was the line tied off on the mast once the correct length was set?

Edited February 29, 2012 by GSer

[Laurence Hogg]

I know where the original deckboard and mast from cygnus went. When Keays finished up we took a number of items away from the yard, originally stored at my house at Wombourne they were collected by staff from The Waterways museum around 1984. Amongst them was a small Woolwich mast and deck board. "Cygnus" was still relativly intact when Stevens and Keay got her, the boat was still in WWCTS colours. Presumably these went to Gloucester and will almost certainly be in the large objects store so a call to the museum might pay dividends.

[alan_fincher]

That's all excellent info, many thanks.

 

So the snubber ran through the runner blocks and was tied off to the tee stud on the butty's cabin top, did the towing load pull on the t stud and so put strain on the running blocks or was the line tied off on the mast once the correct length was set?

No, the pulley on the mast, and the running blocks were just guides. The mast would have taken sideways forces, but notthe linear ones for actually towing.

 

The pull was solely from the (very big!) stud on the cabin.

 

Effectively the butty steerer controlled the line length, and could let out more, if appropriate.

 

As I understand it, a major advantage was that the motor could take off at a goodly pace, and the butty steerer could play the line out such that the butty got picked up fairly smoothly. If towing on a fixed length line, the motor would have to get under way quite slowly until the line was taught, otherwise you had a dead weight, and inadequate "give", and something could break.

 

Reputedly, even so, towing from a stud on the butty cabin caused movements of wooden cabins, and hence more leaks that would normally be expected.

 

Ian & Lucy, (then Renfrew and Lucy), I believe were the only pair still working this way, long after it was commonplace elsewhere. But pictures of GUCCCo operations in (say) the war years show maybe half the loaded boats used it, and certainly in the recently found high quality publicity photos of "Idele Women", Audrey, Evelyn & Ann, it is the method in use with loaded boats.

 

Roger Fuller's restored boats have been seen loaded in recent years, using running blocks.

[Liam]

Hi Alan,

 

I see your point about the motor having to go quite a way slowly until the line was taught before winding it on, but that's not entirely the case.

 

When on the motor and towing on a fairly long line, say 100ft, I've collected the coiled line off the butty and have taken a couple of turns around the two dollies on the motor so as to get the butty moving but still have the motor getting ahead and distance being put between the two boats. You'd stand in the hatches but keep the tension on the line by letting it run through your hands. As the end of the line comes in sight, a loop previously spliced in has been dropped over the dolly. If done in good time, there's hardly any noticable change in speed and hardly any jerking of both boats.

[GSer]

I know where the original deckboard and mast from cygnus went. When Keays finished up we took a number of items away from the yard, originally stored at my house at Wombourne they were collected by staff from The Waterways museum around 1984. Amongst them was a small Woolwich mast and deck board. "Cygnus" was still relativly intact when Stevens and Keay got her, the boat was still in WWCTS colours. Presumably these went to Gloucester and will almost certainly be in the large objects store so a call to the museum might pay dividends.

 

I'll give then a call to see whats left, if anything. Even if they won't let me take whats left, a photo or two of the originals would be nice.

[pete harrison]

I'll give then a call to see whats left, if anything. Even if they won't let me take whats left, a photo or two of the originals would be nice.

 

Very possibly will not be the originals, i.e. as fitted when new. All running gear was interchangeable between other boats of the same type and it was common practice to swap better running gear off boats that were laid up.

[jake_crew]

Look at Mike Askins video "Horseboating at Stone" of Sam Noone taking up the tow on Verbena/Vienna.

 

At the 9.00 minute point, it shows the snatch as the tension comes on the snubber and could easily take a finger off, let alone wrench the cabin roof.

 

Edited March 1, 2012 by jake_crew

[Derek R.]

Hi Alan,

 

I see your point about the motor having to go quite a way slowly until the line was taught before winding it on, but that's not entirely the case.

 

When on the motor and towing on a fairly long line, say 100ft, I've collected the coiled line off the butty and have taken a couple of turns around the two dollies on the motor so as to get the butty moving but still have the motor getting ahead and distance being put between the two boats. You'd stand in the hatches but keep the tension on the line by letting it run through your hands. As the end of the line comes in sight, a loop previously spliced in has been dropped over the dolly. If done in good time, there's hardly any noticable change in speed and hardly any jerking of both boats.

 

Arthur Bray is seen to do just this with the motor dollies in

. 1m 35sec to 1m 50.

[Laurence Hogg]

Look at Mike Askins video "Horseboating at Stone" of Sam Noone taking up the tow on Verbena/Vienna.

 

At the 9.00 minute point, it shows the snatch as the tension comes on the snubber and could easily take a finger off, let alone wrench the cabin roof.

 

The cabin roof isnt taking the strain. There is a beam underneath which is there for this purpose and that takes the strain, she was a bit late in tightening the rope up thats all.