Gas stove in cockpit

[KirraMisha]

Hi currently my gas stove is in the cabin and due to wanting to install a multifuel stove in the cabin I need to move the gas stove for space and for safety.

 

Is it safe to put a two burner stove unit like a smev on the back deck in its own unit that drains over board?

I am thinking on the opposite side from the petrol tank and steering wheel, the boat is a Dawncraft 22.

If the petrol is in its own locker and not being filled up and closed away I am assuming a gas stove on the opposite side with flame fail would be ok?

Ideally I plan to move the petrol tank into a cage on the back of the boat outside.

 

Any advice would be greatly appriciated as safety is most important to me.

 

thanks.

[Athy]

Petrol tank and gas stove close together?

Result, potential severe unhappiness.

[jelunga]

I woukd not use a stove within 10 metres of a petrol tank, never mind 4 feet! All petrol tanks will have an air vent which should also have a fkame arrester to stop fkames igniting the fuel. But that will not stop petrol vapour being ignited by the gas stove. You mught get away with it 98% of the time but eventually I am sure there will be an incident. I will not call it an accident because it can be forseen!

[KirraMisha]

I woukd not use a stove within 10 metres of a petrol tank, never mind 4 feet! All petrol tanks will have an air vent which should also have a fkame arrester to stop fkames igniting the fuel. But that will not stop petrol vapour being ignited by the gas stove. You mught get away with it 98% of the time but eventually I am sure there will be an incident. I will not call it an accident because it can be forseen!

 

Thank you for the replies I will forget the idea.

 

Should I also forget having a gas stove in the cabin where there will be a multifuel stove?

 

thanks.

[ChrisPy]

I can't help feeling that the replies so far have been a little alarmist.

There are rules (BSS) and good practice (ISOs and British Standards) which should be complied with. I am sure there are thousands of boats, both inland and salty, which have outboards with petrol tanks onboard, and also have gas appliances.

I suggest you consult a competent boat safety inspector. Hopefully one of the forum members who is properly qualified (no disrespect intended to the first responders) will be along in a minute.

 

Of course you can have a gas appliance in a cabin fitted with a multifuel stove, but don't run the stove on petrol!

Edited February 27, 2012 by ChrisPy

[Athy]

I can't help feeling that the replies so far have been a little alarmist.

 

I'm sure the OP will be comforted by your words as he is taken to the burns unit at Holby General.

Seriously, petrol tank in proximity to gas stove COULD be Very Bad News. Better safe than sorry.

[gazza]

I'm sure the OP will be comforted by your words as he is taken to the burns unit at Holby General.

Seriously, petrol tank in proximity to gas stove COULD be Very Bad News. Better safe than sorry.

 

thats funny, my little mayland, all 16' of it, has just passed its bss - the outboard tank is on the cockpit floor, the stove is no more than 8' away in the cabin, it does have a cabin door that is not always shut when using the stove.

 

we have had the boat since 1991 and so far it hasnt gone bang, i will be on the edge of my seat, wating for the huge bang that will surely come when i boil the kettle for a cuppa........

[alan_fincher]

I'm sure the OP will be comforted by your words as he is taken to the burns unit at Holby General.

Seriously, petrol tank in proximity to gas stove COULD be Very Bad News. Better safe than sorry.

But if you have a Dawncraft 22, (and I'm guessing the clue there is the 22, and it is only 22 feet long overall), and it is petrol powered, it simply isn't possible to have a huge geographical separation between egine/fuel tank and cooker (or anything else) is it ?

 

People have had gas stoves in small petrol powered boats for as long as I can remember, and as long as you are sensible, (and comply with all applicable regulations), it probably isn't hugely more dangerous than having a petrol powered boat in the first place, is it ?

[gazza]

But if you have a Dawncraft 22, (and I'm guessing the clue there is the 22, and it is only 22 feet long overall), and it is petrol powered, it simply isn't possible to have a huge geographical separation between egine/fuel tank and cooker (or anything else) is it ?

 

People have had gas stoves in small petrol powered boats for as long as I can remember, and as long as you are sensible, (and comply with all applicable regulations), it probably isn't hugely more dangerous than having a petrol powered boat in the first place, is it ?

 

see above! the mayland is 16' LOA, a 30' exclusion zone between gas and petrol is utterly impossible.

 

the biggest safety problem is common sense isnt all that common!

[bizzard]

Many years ago when folk were generally poorer,but much more practical with much much more common sense with practical things,and before all these rules and regulations especially those appertaining to safety matters ect ect ect,most folk had to carry out considerable amounts of make and mend.

It was very common practice on private boats 'especially conversions' simply to stand the gas bottle next to the gas stove (cooker)connected together with a yard of rubber tubing,''only two connections so less likely to leak'' but the user ''ALWAYS'' automatically turned the gas off at the bottle after use.

These boats were almost always petrol driven by either inboard or outboard engines as indeed were almost all hire cruisers up until around 1960,and often carrying extra petrol stored in cans too.

The old traditional Norfolk Broads wooden sailing cruisers many of which had and i believe still have small Stuart Turner inboard auxilliary petrol engines or a Seagull petrol outboard could be provided,both these types of craft had their gas cookers in the rear well along with the gas bottle under a hinged seat top and all in quite close proximity with petrol engine and petrol tank.But i expect these boats have now been spoilt with all the relevant erm unsafe issues modified.

I suppose some boats did blow up or catch fire from time time through someones stupidity but certainly no more than what occur today with all the adhered to safety standards. Happy days. Bizzard.

[Chertsey]

Is it not an issue of relative height? The petrol locker will vent overboard and petrol vapour is heavier than air so as long as the gas flame is a reasonable distance away and higher it should be fine. Are there not regulations specifying what such a reasonable distance is? I have never seen it said that people should not smoke in cockpits of petrol engined boats. Surely the danger is when the petrol vapour cannot escape and builds up. If the petrol is installed correctly this should not occur.

 

Once again, I wonder how many of the naysayers have actually owned a petrol powered boat? I have had one in which the petrol tank was certainly within ten metres - more like less than ten feet - of the gas stove and caused no worries whatsoever either to us or the BSS.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Chertsey

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Thank you for the replies I will forget the idea.

 

Should I also forget having a gas stove in the cabin where there will be a multifuel stove?

 

thanks.

 

There must be thousands of narrowboats with gas cookers and solid fuel stoves using the canal system. It will depend on how carefully you manage your systems. It should a properly plumbed in unit and it should have Fail Safe Devices aka Flame Failure Devices so that if switched on inadvertently or if the flames goes out, the gas stops flowing out of the unlit burners.

 

However, as an alternative, if the stove only gets light use, then you could consider a spirit stove like an Origo for one example. The fuel reservoirs on these can supposedly be tipped over and the fuels stays in and the flame goes out. No doubt an owner of such an appliance will be along to tell you about the day-to-day practicalities of using one. A former colleague of mine had one on his 23ft cruiser and loved it. There is no humping of gas cylinders and some examiners reduced their fees for gas free boats apparently. However I believe spirit stoves take longer to heat and cook.

 

I hope these are positive pointers.

 

BTW what boat make/model is your boat?

 

Rob

[ChrisPy]

I'm sure the OP will be comforted by your words as he is taken to the burns unit at Holby General.

Seriously, petrol tank in proximity to gas stove COULD be Very Bad News. Better safe than sorry.

crossing the road, having a baby, riding a bike ..... COULD all be very bad news. In fact it would be safer not to go boating ... or to leave the house every morning.

Why pick on this when there are already adequate regulations to cover it?

The OP has asked a reasonable question and deserves a reasoned answer, not hysteria about what MIGHT happen.

Elfin safety is (or should be) about identifying the hazards, minimising the risks by proper management, and then getting on with it once the level of risk has been lowered to a level that is considered acceptable, not getting hysterical about perceived but unquantified risks.

Edited February 27, 2012 by ChrisPy

[alan_fincher]

However, as an alternative, if the stove only gets light use, then you could consider a spirit stove like an Origo for one example. The fuel reservoirs on these can supposedly be tipped over and the fuels stays in and the flame goes out. No doubt an owner of such an appliance will be along to tell you about the day-to-day practicalities of using one. A former colleague of mine had one on his 23ft cruiser and loved it. There is no humping of gas cylinders and some examiners reduced their fees for gas free boats apparently. However I believe spirit stoves take longer to heat and cook.

 

We use an Origo on the working boat when the weather is too hot to have the range alight.

 

They are remarkably effective, and don't seem any slower to boil a kettle than a gas ring.

 

The downsides are.....

 

1) (Safety) The flame can be near invisible if, for example there is strong sunlight behind it, and I can envisage accidents when one is assumed to be not burning, and it actually is.

 

2) (Running Cost) Even bulk bought the methylated spirit is a reasonably expensive way of doing significant amount of cooking. I'd guess it is probably comparable to those LPG stoves that use a canister, (and which I know the BSS have concerns about, and which I am now no longer prepared to use).

 

3) (Purchase Cost) Even a single burner one now seems to be around the £130 mark - a great deal of money, for what it actually is - a large fondue set burner, in a nicely polished tin box!

 

That said, if you work within those limitations, they are excellent, leaving Sickle completely "gas free". Wouldn't be without our Origo!

[KirraMisha]

There must be thousands of narrowboats with gas cookers and solid fuel stoves using the canal system. It will depend on how carefully you manage your systems. It should a properly plumbed in unit and it should have Fail Safe Devices aka Flame Failure Devices so that if switched on inadvertently or if the flames goes out, the gas stops flowing out of the unlit burners.

 

However, as an alternative, if the stove only gets light use, then you could consider a spirit stove like an Origo for one example. The fuel reservoirs on these can supposedly be tipped over and the fuels stays in and the flame goes out. No doubt an owner of such an appliance will be along to tell you about the day-to-day practicalities of using one. A former colleague of mine had one on his 23ft cruiser and loved it. There is no humping of gas cylinders and some examiners reduced their fees for gas free boats apparently. However I believe spirit stoves take longer to heat and cook.

 

I hope these are positive pointers.

 

BTW what boat make/model is your boat?

 

Rob

 

Its a Dawncraft 22 foot fiberglass cruiser Rob.

 

I will need the stove to make brews and make pasta in a pot so I think its fair to say it will get medium use.

In the good weather I would be happy to cook on a portable stove off the boat on the bank camping style.

I am most certainly the kind of person to turn the gas off at the bottle as soon as I have used it.

 

The more I think about it I am going to put the petrol tank on the back outside so it vents straight onto the water.

Is there any risks with doing this from sun heat and collison?

 

thanks for the replies it is all very interesting reading and food for thought.

[Athy]

crossing the road, having a baby, riding a bike ..... COULD all be very bad news. In fact it would be safer not to go boating ... or to leave the house every morning.

Why pick on this when there are already adequate regulations to cover it?

The OP has asked a reasonable question and deserves a reasoned answer, not hysteria about what MIGHT happen.

Elfin safety is (or should be) about identifying the hazards, minimising the risks by proper management, and then getting on with it once the level of risk has been lowered to a level that is considered acceptable, not getting hysterical about perceived but unquantified risks.

Not hysteria, caution.

Last year we had to live away from home for nearly six months following a serious fire in our house, so I guess I am perhaps over-sensitive to fire-related issues at the moment. Sorry.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Athy

[KirraMisha]

Not hysteria, caution.

Last year we had to live away from home for nearly six months following a serious fire in our house, so I guess I am perhaps over-sensitive to fire-related issues at the moment. Sorry.

Dont be Athy your heed is most welcome.

I just want to be as safe as possible and still be able to make a coffee in the morning without having to go on the canal path with a portable stove.

If thats all Im left with options wise I may as well put the boat on ebay and buy a camper van.

 

thanks.

[ChrisPy]

 

 

The more I think about it I am going to put the petrol tank on the back outside so it vents straight onto the water.

Is there any risks with doing this from sun heat and collison?

 

I assume you have the BSS Essential Guide (download from internet).

Chapter 5 gives you the regulations and includes reference to another publication about the safe use of petrol.

[jelunga]

 

We use an Origo on the working boat when the weather is too hot to have the range alight.

 

They are remarkably effective, and don't seem any slower to boil a kettle than a gas ring.

 

The downsides are.....

 

1) (Safety) The flame can be near invisible if, for example there is strong sunlight behind it, and I can envisage accidents when one is assumed to be not burning, and it actually is.

 

2) (Running Cost) Even bulk bought the methylated spirit is a reasonably expensive way of doing significant amount of cooking. I'd guess it is probably comparable to those LPG stoves that use a canister, (and which I know the BSS have concerns about, and which I am now no longer prepared to use).

 

3) (Purchase Cost) Even a single burner one now seems to be around the £130 mark - a great deal of money, for what it actually is - a large fondue set burner, in a nicely polished tin box!

 

That said, if you work within those limitations, they are excellent, leaving Sickle completely "gas free". Wouldn't be without our Origo!

Alan,

What quntities of meths do you get and current price? I can occassionaly find 5 litre cans at about £19.50

[Chris Pink]

Dont be Athy your heed is most welcome.

I just want to be as safe as possible and still be able to make a coffee in the morning without having to go on the canal path with a portable stove.

If thats all Im left with options wise I may as well put the boat on ebay and buy a camper van.

 

thanks.

 

Would that be, ummmm, a petrol camper van with a gas stove? :-)

[Chertsey]

crossing the road, having a baby, riding a bike ..... COULD all be very bad news. In fact it would be safer not to go boating ... or to leave the house every morning.

Why pick on this when there are already adequate regulations to cover it?

The OP has asked a reasonable question and deserves a reasoned answer, not hysteria about what MIGHT happen.

Elfin safety is (or should be) about identifying the hazards, minimising the risks by proper management, and then getting on with it once the level of risk has been lowered to a level that is considered acceptable, not getting hysterical about perceived but unquantified risks.

Very well said.

[alan_fincher]

Alan,

What quntities of meths do you get and current price? I can occassionaly find 5 litre cans at about £19.50

 

Good grief, no - about half that!

 

I've only bought once so far (in June last year), but paid £9.54 (vat included) for each 5 litre container.

 

By the time I had paid carriage, that was £46.50, for 20 litres. So far we have not quite exhausted the first 5 litres, (I think ?), so it will be a while before I need to buy again!

 

Link to Meths at £7.95 (+VAT) per 5 litres.

[Naughty Cal]

Good grief, no - about half that!

 

I've only bought once so far (in June last year), but paid £9.54 (vat included) for each 5 litre container.

 

By the time I had paid carriage, that was £46.50, for 20 litres. So far we have not quite exhausted the first 5 litres, (I think ?), so it will be a while before I need to buy again!

 

Link to Meths at £7.95 (+VAT) per 5 litres.

 

Our friends Sea Ray has meths and electric cooking, however they can only use the electric when plugged in. They swear by their meths hob and claim it to be as reliable as gas. They dont use much meths in a year either.

[Guest]

Our friends Sea Ray has meths and electric cooking, however they can only use the electric when plugged in. They swear by their meths hob and claim it to be as reliable as gas. They dont use much meths in a year either.

 

Handy when you run out of booze too....

[Naughty Cal]

Handy when you run out of booze too....

 

We never run out of booze. Fuel, nearly, food, occasionally, booze, NEVER