What sort of boat do I need?

[bizzard]

Because if you click the 'Show All' on the emoticons you'll see the character set that gives that particular one and it is a bee with a following bracket which was what you were trying to type I believe.

Roger

 

 

 

But I thought that this topic was discussing FF's requirement, and I quote from her very first post:

Over the off seasons I would really like to leave the UK and take my boat into Europe.

To my mind into means into and, so far, FF's postings haven't disagreed with that.

Roger

The ins and outs of doing that have already been discussed earlier.We've all just wandered off topic a little,as is usual.

[bargemast]

Quite true,but i think most sailing boats only wish to take a short cut transit to the Med and not particulaly want to cruise the canal network over there.A twin bilge keeled motor sailer ''much less draught'' with an easy to lower tabernacled mast and not a through deck to keelson job would be best of course,but of course most if not all motor-sailers do have that.

 

 

bizzard, you would be most surprised to see howmany sailing yacht make the choice to use the French canal route every year to go to the Med, and with excellents boat for the sea, they often stuggle more then a bit because of their draft, which they try to indicate by a triangular sign at their bows indicating their draft, so laden barges understand why they don't get very far out of the way, and are a real pain to them.

 

But they just love the route via the inland waterways, and you will often see the same boats again a year or two later, just because they loved their trip, yachts with less draft, or with a drop keel will have an easier journey of course.

 

Now a few words about the Multiship barge, by the looks of it, she is in Holland, as I see Dutch flags on other barges there, in the Dutch text it doesn't say she has a new hull, but just a new bottom (good enough), and size-wise, she is an ideal barge for the French canals, but pretty useless for the U.K. so wouldn't be a good choice at all if the U.K. canals are on the "must be able to" do list.

 

They have another pretty boat for sale that would be perfect for the occasional Channel crossing and France, but maybe a bit on the deep side for the U.K. her lenghts and width are good :

 

My link

 

Good luck with your project F-F,

 

Peter.

[bottle]

F -F

 

You mentioned hiring out your boat, have a look at the link especially paragraph 10 to 13 inclusive, these are the requirements for British Waterways waters.

 

http://www.britishwa...itions#business

 

There is also the higher standard of BSS (Boat Safety Scheme) certificate. (2002 Non Private)

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site/2ndedBSSEssentialGuide_212.asp

 

Sometime back the River Wey was mentioned, they are even more stringent on what can be done on their river, so I understand.

 

The Thames is, at the moment, the Environment Agency probably different requirements again.

Edited February 1, 2012 by bottle

[Fyre-Faery]

Thank You.

 

Is there anyone who can answer this question:

 

1. If after investigating licensing, regulations, mooring etc for the parties it just isn't worth the cost to run them on the canal (and I instead keep doing them on dry-land) is there a way I could live in my boat on the Surrey River System and return every weekend to the same spot to use my parked car? I have heard the waterways now chase you so you can't moor in the same areas without paying for a private mooring. Is this correct?

Is there a cheap way to live on the canals without Mooring fees?

Anywhere in Surrey but pref close to Guildford would be great. (And assuming here the boat is a broadbeam)

[Albion]

Thank You.

 

Is there anyone who can answer this question:

 

1. If after investigating licensing, regulations, mooring etc for the parties it just isn't worth the cost to run them on the canal (and I instead keep doing them on dry-land) is there a way I could live in my boat on the Surrey River System and return every weekend to the same spot to use my parked car? I have heard the waterways now chase you so you can't moor in the same areas without paying for a private mooring. Is this correct?

Is there a cheap way to live on the canals without Mooring fees?

Anywhere in Surrey but pref close to Guildford would be great. (And assuming here the boat is a broadbeam)

 

Oh dear F-F, as a relative newbie you don't realise what you may now be starting with a question like that. Stand-by. I'm just off to buy my popcorn now.

If you happen to search for the words Continuous Moorers or Continuous Bridge Hoppers or Continuous Cruisers you might get a flavour of what I mean.

Roger

[bottle]

Is there a cheap way to live on the canals without Mooring fees?

 

Canals does not equal cheap, never has done and never will.

 

You can declare your self as Continuous Cruiser but you will need to comply with the requirements of BW, basically you can moor in any place for a maximum of 14 days unless a sign says different and must be on a continuous journey over a major part of the system.

 

This will not work for you if you wish to give parties on he boat or even ashore.

 

CCing is very contentious, if you have maybe the time search for continuous cruis(ing)er, top right.

 

Edit: Roger beat me to it.

Edited February 1, 2012 by bottle

[Fyre-Faery]

OK. So I would need to hire a private mooring then.

Any suggestions as to how to find one outside the area owned by the National Trust?

Or, on the other hand I could park my car in a new spot every week and sail up to where it is!

That might work, 14 days is reasonable mooring time in each spot!

Is there a certain distance you must move between each mooring?

 

I will look up the Bridge Hoppers!

[carlt]

No i've not.but it would still roll more than a sailing boat. The self righters would roll more,although safer in seriously rough conditions,the deep heavy keel pendulum affect can cause that excessive rolling,yes sails would stabilize that.

I've been in sailing boats that rolled far more than my Barnett.

 

Having sailed a lot and used motor boats, at sea, I would personally favour sail but, and it's a relevant 'but' to the OP, one of the reasons I will be sticking to motor boats, for the next few years, is that kids respond to a bit of roll a lot better than a lot of heel.

 

As the OP states her intention to involve kids trips in her proposed venture, and is not, from what I can tell, qualified for a sail training project, she should probably stick to motoring.

[Fyre-Faery]

I have just been reading another thread about Moorings.

I am absolutely confused!

 

So there are marinas aprox £350 a month in the south am I right?

So basically the same price as paying rent in a flat for a bit of water and a post? OMG.

 

There are C'Cers which as has been said is unreliable for running a business with regards to weather conditions etc.

 

And then I found this:

"yes, you could pay for a mooring in the furthest reaches of the North, approx £600 p year, and moor round London for as long as you wanted without any issues, completely peeing off people like Higgs,CV32, SrNibble etc"

 

Can someone explain this to me?

Thank You!

[RLWP]

£350 a month sounds pretty good. This one is £500

 

Engineers Wharf

 

Unfortunately, it's for a narrowboat

 

Richard

[Guest]

I have just been reading another thread about Moorings.

I am absolutely confused!

 

So there are marinas aprox £350 a month in the south am I right?

So basically the same price as paying rent in a flat for a bit of water and a post? OMG.

 

There are C'Cers which as has been said is unreliable for running a business with regards to weather conditions etc.

 

And then I found this:

"yes, you could pay for a mooring in the furthest reaches of the North, approx £600 p year, and moor round London for as long as you wanted without any issues, completely peeing off people like Higgs,CV32, SrNibble etc"

 

Can someone explain this to me?

Thank You!

 

£350 per month sounds about par for the course for a fully service marina berth in the south especially getting towards London - we are way up north and pay significantly less than that but it's like a lot of things that get more expensive the nearer the capital you get.

 

Cheaper moorings are available and auctioned here-

 

http://www.bwmooringvacancies.com/

 

Often these are towpath/offside moorings with much less facilities than what you can expect in a good marina. Some prefer this type of mooring though because of the cost and the lack of what some describe as being moored in a big caravan park or goldfish bowl.

 

ed to add - actually as Richard has pointed out that is quite cheap actually.

 

Removed the last bit as I see you have already read the relevant thread.

Edited February 1, 2012 by MJG

[Fyre-Faery]

Thanks Martin. That is a great site.

Yes I'd much prefer to moor in the middle of nowhere. Stunning!

Though I imagine most of these don't have electric hook up.

 

 

Wow. I had no idea the mooring fees were so high.

I was told £300 a month including saving for dry docking every three years.

Do all canal boats need to be dry docked BTW or just wooden ones?

[RLWP]

All of them

 

Richard

 

Sounds like you are on a steep learning curve

[KenK]

Thanks Martin. That is a great site.

Yes I'd much prefer to moor in the middle of nowhere. Stunning!

Though I imagine most of these don't have electric hook up.

 

 

Wow. I had no idea the mooring fees were so high.

I was told £300 a month including saving for dry docking every three years.

Do all canal boats need to be dry docked BTW or just wooden ones?

 

I have a 60 ft narrowboat moored in a small marina on the K&A Newbury. I expect my standing costs, mooring, licence, insurance and maintenance to be £4000 per year, that is before we move the boat an inch. That is lesiure use not liveaboard.

 

You have had the Boatmasters part of the regs quoted to you regarding passenger vessels. I am a boat manager for the K&A Trust, we have four passenger boats which run under MCA rules. Boatmasters is fairly straightforward, cost to obtain a licence about £800. If you are going to run a passenger boat with more than 12 passengers then the boat comes under MCA rules this is where it gets expensive. Out of water inspection each year, including removing the propellor and shaft, in water inspection each year as well and an intrim inspection mid year. You pay for the first two, the intrim one is free, call it between £1000 - £1500 for the inspections assuming they do not find any problems. You might get a dispensation for the inspections, then its only twice in five years for the out of water. You need search and rescue plans, passenger counting plans and approved training and safety manuals. I essence you are treated as though you are a passenger vessel on the sea.

 

Good luck with your plans but go into it with your eyes wide open.

 

Ken

[Fyre-Faery]

Looking like an expensive learning curve at the moment!

 

And what is the deal with a 'Home mooring' what does that mean as opposed to a 'leisure mooring' which I see auctioned on the site MJG linked to?

And if you are hiring your own mooring what are the rules in cruising around? Do you have to return every certain number of days then unless you are on a continuous journey as a CC type?

 

Thank You!

[Guest]

Thanks Martin. That is a great site.

Yes I'd much prefer to moor in the middle of nowhere. Stunning!

Though I imagine most of these don't have electric hook up.

 

They don't have shore power in the main but some do - these though tend to be at the type of site Richard linked you to and include other things like water and pontoons to moor against. The Power is normally paid for by on cards which you slot into the bollard to 'top up' your credit. Where you get the cards from can vary by site. The cost of the electricity is not normally included in your mooring fees and is over and above in most cases.

 

Although these type of auctioned moorings are often in the middle of nowhere some can be in towns and cities small villages. Also it is normal for the site to be shared with at least a few other boats - which can be good for security purposes. Off road parking and being near a road can be useful too if you have a car which I see you do.

 

Your other option are moorings operated by private landowners who have entered into a formal agreement with BW to be able to rent canal side space to boaters for the purpose of mooring their boat. These vary enormously in terms of standard of facilities and range from nothing more than a bank-side mooring at the end of a field through to something approaching what you can get at a half decent marina (proper pontoons shore power etc etc) - these tend to come about for rent by word of mouth or ada. in the likes of Towpath Talk or the canal mags. and don't appear on the BW auctions site which is for moorings they administer only.

 

HTH

[Alan de Enfield]

FF :- pretty much eveything to do with boating is paid for by the 'foot' so the bigger the boat the more it costs.

 

Blacking (painting the bottom) at around £10.00 / foot every three years

Mooring (Grade 1 leisure at Kings Marina Newark) £167.00 / metre / year

Mooring Residential (Kings Marina Newark) £3500 per year irrespective of length

Insurance cost depends on boat value / age / length

Painting (every 7 years ) £7000 - 10,000

BSC (Safety Certificate - like a car MOT every 4 years) £????

Licence (like car road tax) £???? depends on length

[Fyre-Faery]

I am a boat manager for the K&A Trust, we have four passenger boats which run under MCA rules. Boatmasters is fairly straightforward, cost to obtain a licence about £800. If you are going to run a passenger boat with more than 12 passengers then the boat comes under MCA rules this is where it gets expensive. Out of water inspection each year, including removing the propellor and shaft, in water inspection each year as well and an intrim inspection mid year. You pay for the first two, the intrim one is free, call it between £1000 - £1500 for the inspections assuming they do not find any problems. You might get a dispensation for the inspections, then its only twice in five years for the out of water. You need search and rescue plans, passenger counting plans and approved training and safety manuals. I essence you are treated as though you are a passenger vessel on the sea.

 

 

Ken

 

Hi Ken. Thank You. Right. This is great info.

Can I ask a possibly silly question:

Say I wanted to start small and go with the 12 passenger situation - does 'passenger' include the crew members in the 12 maximum bodies?

[KenK]

Hi Ken. Thank You. Right. This is great info.

Can I ask a possibly silly question:

Say I wanted to start small and go with the 12 passenger situation - does 'passenger' include the crew members in the 12 maximum bodies?

 

No passengers does not include the crew. If you want the full information go to the MCA website and search for "small passenger vessel regulations", 12 passengers or less.

 

Ken

[Guest]

Looking like an expensive learning curve at the moment!

 

And what is the deal with a 'Home mooring' what does that mean as opposed to a 'leisure mooring' which I see auctioned on the site MJG linked to?

And if you are hiring your own mooring what are the rules in cruising around? Do you have to return every certain number of days then unless you are on a continuous journey as a CC type?

 

Thank You!

 

In a nutshell

 

- if you are not a continuous cruiser which we are not, you have to declare a 'home mooring' to BW - ours is in a marina near Leeds, a home mooring could be one of the ones on the BW auction site or a private mooring.

 

Ours is a leisure mooring which basically means we are not allowed to permanently live on our boat at it's mooring - we are using our boat for leisure purposes so that works for us.

 

A residential mooring (which can in places be like hens teeth to find) allows you to legitimately live aboard your boat at it's mooring. They have local planning permission to be declared a residential mooring and you usually pay council tax as you would as if you lived at home in a house or flat.

 

 

(Some people of course do live permanently on their boats even on leisure moorings even though technically they are not supposed to - but we don't - that's a different debate though)

Edited February 1, 2012 by MJG

[Fyre-Faery]

Thanks Martin and Alan.

Although I am quite horrified to discover these mooring prices do not even include your electric! Ye gods it really is like caravanning.

 

It is more expensive to live in a canal boat than own your own home then?

(Say you had no mortgage on either).

[Chertsey]

Thanks Martin and Alan.

Although I am quite horrified to discover these mooring prices do not even include your electric! Ye gods it really is like caravanning.

 

It is more expensive to live in a canal boat than own your own home then?

(Say you had no mortgage on either).

Depending on the sort and size of boat, level of insurance cover, and type and location of mooring, quite possibly. But having a house without a mortgage is a very fortunate position to be in and probably not the most realistic point of comparison.

[Fyre-Faery]

And if you have a 'home mooring' can you then go where you like, or do you have to follow the CC rules of 14 days max at moorings and a good distance between each one?

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks Martin and Alan.

Although I am quite horrified to discover these mooring prices do not even include your electric! Ye gods it really is like caravanning.

 

It is more expensive to live in a canal boat than own your own home then?

(Say you had no mortgage on either).

 

 

You can live frugally (Spelling ?)on a boat but basically the costs will not be dissimilar between a boat and a house. The main difference is a house will (over time) appreciate in value whilst a boat will normally depreciate.

 

If you want a washing machine, hair dryer, freezer etc than the electricity has to be generated by you (unless you permanently have a shore-line in a Marina)Electricity generation will cost a considerable amount more that tapping into the mains 'at home'

 

Boating is for those that want the lifestyle (Hippies and the not-so-sane - insert suitable smiley here so everyone knows its a joke !!!)and not as a money saver.

[KenK]

And if you have a 'home mooring' can you then go where you like, or do you have to follow the CC rules of 14 days max at moorings and a good distance between each one?

 

No CC rules do not apply, there is another thread on here with just that topic.

 

Ken