apologies

[alan_fincher]

Where's that bloke Fincher? It's time for him to shine

 

Richard

I don't know about shine!

 

The owner has apologised, and of course I accept that.

 

I guess I am genuinely staggered that anybody can commission perhaps one of the most expensive boats on the canal and own it for (if I recall correctly) over a year and a half, and to not realise the impacts of mooring on a lock landing for many weeks on end.

 

To be fair, just reading the "Boaters Handbook" supplied free by BW to every new licence holder should cover such basics.....

 

From page 9.....

 

Don’t moor:

• In lock approaches or in lock flights

 

I do also genuinely find it surprising that if the boat is remaining continuously in the same area with BW knowledge that local patrol officers have not suggested that it is in a highly inappropriate place, and suggested it be moved to somewhere where it was not causing an obstruction.

 

In my defence this boat generally has covers over the back, and drawn blinds over every window, and has never shown any signs of anybody being aboard it when I pass walking the dog. As I'm almost invariably doing that in school hours, and I was told it was owned by a teacher, (I don't know if that's right or wrong of course!), I would not really have expected to find it occupied at those times.

 

I think if you are trying to find a mooring for a boat that size between Hemel and Uxbridge, and wish to restrict yourself to that length of canal, you will not find a huge degree of choice. If you have been trying, you probably already know that, so would have perhaps to either compromise on location, or on the quality of the mooring available ?

 

There might be a possibility of a boat that wide going in the BWML marina at Apsley, near where you have been up to now. Certainly they have had wide beams, and may still have, but perhaps yours is too wide ? If you have enquired, you will know it would be unlikely to be cheap!

 

There are few other off-line opportunities otherwise. The extensive moorings in the pits alongside the canal at Harefield might be a possibility I don't know. I assume they are part of "Harefied Marina" ? Have you asked there ?

 

Most BW on-line moorings, (the auctioned ones), are simply not going to allow such a wide boat. One exception though are the ones that come up at Brown's Meadow in Uxbridge. These usually allow a full width boat.

 

Presumably you have been aware of these, and ruled them out, as several have been up for auction in very recent months, but attracted no bids? So you could have secured one at the minimum "reserve" price, 25% less than many moorers will be paying.

 

Three recent examples here.....

 

Most recent (this month) is only 17.5 metres - maybe not long enough ? (How long is Zoe ?).

 

https://www.bwmooringvacancies.com/vacancy/vacancy_details.php?id=3453

 

These two are a full 22 metre length, so certainly would have done, size-wise....

 

https://www.bwmooringvacancies.com/vacancy/vacancy_details.php?id=3451

 

https://www.bwmooringvacancies.com/vacancy/vacancy_details.php?id=3308

 

 

Clearly there is some reason people are not leaping to take these, I accept, but at circa £1,500 pa, there certainly are unlikely to be cheaper ones that close in to London I think. (Compare to the sums like £3,500 minimum at Brentford of £5000 minimum at Engineers wharf, and which will generally only take narrow boats not a fat wide beam).

 

Anyway, that's my two pennorth. Perhaps someone else might suggest somewhere else a bit more obscure, I don't know, but I don't think there are that many non BW mooring sites on that stretch able to take a big wide beam.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

To pick up on Chris Pink's comments, I don't think I at any point made any suggestion of damage, and certainly not violence! What other people put in a thread is not within my control.

 

ALSO:

 

People do have a habit of "quoting" what has never been said. I never suggested this boat had been its recent inconvenient location for 12 months, although if it has not yet been moved, it may have now been there a couple I guess. It has of course been generally in the Apsley area far longer, but not causing the same obstruction.

 

I do think the patrol officers should have a role to educate in cases like this. They have the facility to leave notices attached to an unoccupied boat - something I would not take it upon myself to do whilst dog walking.

Edited December 28, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Masquerade]

I wonder just how many post without reading what they have written? This forum is no different to many other forums. There is the inner sanctum. There is the small minority who just want to argue. There are the ones who are knowledgeable and get fed up with the members that constantly want to argue and stop posting. Some are logged in permantly, some come and go. Some have high post counts and some don't. There are the grammer police. And on and on. It's just the way it is.

 

To put it into perspective, one poster can reply to another poster in such a manner that the casual observer would interpretate it as an act of hostility. However, between the two posters it is seen as banter. Often what is written would be viewed differently if the same words were originally said over a beer down the pub!

[bizzard]

A curious point which i mentioned in the original thread was that if Sorry had been aboard Zoe for most of this time whilst moored to the lock landing stage,surely she must have seen boaters especially elderly ones with long boats and perhaps not able to climb up and down lock ladders struggling to get their boats into the staging in order to get on and off,and indeed probably arguments with Sorry about her boat being an obstruction,after all Zoe is a pretty wide boat.

Maybe Sorry was not aboard for most of this time,i don't know,perhaps she will clarify this point as i find it rather curious.

Bizzard.

[jenlyn]

A curious point which i mentioned in the original thread was that if Sorry had been aboard Zoe for most of this time whilst moored to the lock landing stage,surely she must have seen boaters especially elderly ones with long boats and perhaps not able to climb up and down lock ladders struggling to get their boats into the staging in order to get on and off,and indeed probably arguments with Sorry about her boat being an obstruction,after all Zoe is a pretty wide boat.

Maybe Sorry was not aboard for most of this time,i don't know,perhaps she will clarify this point as i find it rather curious.

Bizzard.

Several people made Zoe aware of mooring guidance, I was there once when someone politely pointed out the facts to them. It does not help that there is a general mooring problem in that area. An email I received from Peter Palmer, the patrol officer for that area stated " Apsley is a problem area and hard to enforce regs, also, I have been concentrating on license evasion more than mooring. I will in the next few months be concentrating on continuous mooring"

[bizzard]

Several people made Zoe aware of mooring guidance, I was there once when someone politely pointed out the facts to them. It does not help that there is a general mooring problem in that area. An email I received from Peter Palmer, the patrol officer for that area stated " Apsley is a problem area and hard to enforce regs, also, I have been concentrating on license evasion more than mooring. I will in the next few months be concentrating on continuous mooring"

Mmmm i see so its quite possible that the chatting at the lock with boaters as Sorry has stated were possibly arguments about as to where she had moored.Indeed please forgive me if i'm wrong Sorry.

[Guest]

Several people made Zoe aware of mooring guidance, I was there once when someone politely pointed out the facts to them.

 

Which rather calls into question the original post.....

 

especially this bit -

 

My apologies to everyone. I did not realise I was causing such an inconvenience...ignorance maybe. Yes I am still learning the ropes and sometimes get it wrong, just a tap on the shoulder and being told that I am being a pain would have been enough of a lesson.

 

My bold.

 

 

 

..

Edited December 28, 2011 by MJG

[bizzard]

Which rather calls into question the original post.....

 

especially this bit -

 

 

 

My bold.

 

 

 

..

Mmmm It all gets curiouser and curiouser.

Inspector Clueso.?

[jenlyn]

Mmmm i see so its quite possible that the chatting at the lock with boaters as Sorry has stated were possibly arguments about as to where she had moored.Indeed please forgive me if i'm wrong Sorry.

There were no arguments, just chat. It was not at the time Zoe was moored on the lock landing. Zoe tends to moor near the reach out berths, however, when Zoe moors in apsley, owing to problems with other moorers, Zoe tends to moor in awkward places. Yes, it is annoying when you can't get off near the lock, and apsley is a pain because it's nearly always blocked by someone. Zoe has apologised, more than some in that area would do. More often than not, some Pratt just gives you a mouthful of abuse.

[bizzard]

There were no arguments, just chat. It was not at the time Zoe was moored on the lock landing. Zoe tends to moor near the reach out berths, however, when Zoe moors in apsley, owing to problems with other moorers, Zoe tends to moor in awkward places. Yes, it is annoying when you can't get off near the lock, and apsley is a pain because it's nearly always blocked by someone. Zoe has apologised, more than some in that area would do. More often than not, some Pratt just gives you a mouthful of abuse.

I see.Yes i moored once at Apsley,opposite the new Papermakers pub,it was quite congested.

As i boat solo a good deal,and am quite an easy going and patient chap.But i personally would not have been too pleased coming across a boat of that size moored to a lock landing stage.

[KevMc]

I sense this is drifting towards territory that has been gone over and over and over ..... etc

 

Shouldn't a lady's unreserved gracious apology be enough to close the subject ?

[jenlyn]

I see.Yes i moored once at Apsley,opposite the new Papermakers pub,it was quite congested.

As i boat solo a good deal,and am quite an easy going and patient chap.But i personally would not have been too pleased coming across a boat of that size moored to a lock landing stage.

Ok, so now you are aware of that area and the problem, when it's a little windy, it's a bugger trying to hold the boat there. The outlet from the paper mill does not help either. At the end of the day, I see it that Peter Palmer should perhaps do his job a little better in that area.

[Guest]

Mmmm It all gets curiouser and curiouser.

Inspector Clueso.?

 

Well it would do - but Jenlyn has confirmed that she wasn't spoken to about the lock landing bit, just the 'mooring in the one area' bit.

[blackrose]

I just find it strange that anyone who owns a boat of that size and value AND has been looking for a mooring for a year doesn't know where to and where not to moor. It's not rocket science.

 

I don't really think it's got anything to do with the size and value of the boat. I know people who started out with big expensive barges with just as little knowledge of the waterways and boating as other people starting out on small narrowboats.

Edited December 28, 2011 by blackrose

[bizzard]

I sense this is drifting towards territory that has been gone over and over and over ..... etc

 

Shouldn't a lady's unreserved gracious apology be enough to close the subject ?

Of course it should, and i do accept the apology and welcome Sorry to the forum.

So i'm sorry if Sorry may have thought that i was questioning her Sorryness,so i'm sorry Sorry for you perhaps thinking that i'd questioned your sorryness.

So,sorry Sorry.

Kind regards Bizzard.

[blackrose]

 

The owner has apologised, and of course I accept that.

 

I guess I am genuinely staggered that anybody can commission perhaps one of the most expensive boats on the canal and own it for (if I recall correctly) over a year and a half, and to not realise the impacts of mooring on a lock landing for many weeks on end.

 

 

I agree to an extent Alan, but I also can't help feeling that this boater is getting a bit more stick simply because they own a bigger (& better ) boat than the rest of us! I've seen plenty of neglected narrowboats inconsiderately mooring on lock landings for weeks on end and not nearly as much fuss is made when they do it. I realise it's slightly more difficult to steer around a wider boat, but that's not really the reason this one has provoked so much ire is it?

Edited December 28, 2011 by blackrose

[Guest]

I can think of a number of reasons why someone might find themsleves on their own in boat in an environment they know little about.

 

Here's a radical idea: why don't we accept the unqualified apology (rare as rocking horse shit on this site) and assurance that the problem will be rectified, and see what happens.

 

If, and I'm guessing obviously, Sorry has no interest or background in boating but has been left with no option but to take responsibility for the boat then she's in need of the excellent advice and support members can give.

Indeed.Perhaps people in the area could advise and help?

[jenlyn]

I agree to an extent Alan, but I also can't help feeling that this boater is getting a bit more stick simply because they own a bigger (& better ) boat than the rest of us! I've seen plenty of neglected narrowboats inconsiderately mooring on lock landings for weeks on end and not nearly as much fuss is made when they do it. I realise it's slightly more difficult to steer around a wider boat, but that's not really the reason this one has provoked so much ire is it?

All the more reason for us widebeamers not giving those darned narrow boaters ammunition to shoot us with

[bizzard]

Sorry, but i'm as they say in the Dragons den ''Sorry i'm out''So,sorry and all that.

[blackrose]

All the more reason for us widebeamers not giving those darned narrow boaters ammunition to shoot us with

 

Yes indeed. If you cruise on a widebeam you need to think about where you're mooring, in part because you don't want your boat to inconvenience other boaters, but also simply because your boat is more conspicuous and will attract disproportionate attention if it isn't properly moored or stays in one place for too long.

 

Edit: Anyway, if anyone wants the virtual tour here it is:

 

http://www.piperboats.com/wide_beam.html

Edited December 28, 2011 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

I agree to an extent Alan, but I also can't help feeling that this boater is getting a bit more stick simply because they own a bigger (& better ) boat than the rest of us! I've seen plenty of neglected narrowboats inconsiderately mooring on lock landings for weeks on end and not nearly as much fuss is made when they do it. I realise it's slightly more difficult to steer around a wider boat, but that's not really the reason this one has provoked so much ire is it?

Your opinion.

 

My original thread complained of two boats inconsiderately moored opposite sides of the canal at Apsley. One was this fat wide beam, the other a narrow boat, (since moved on). If you recall I have in the past complained about miscellaneous low value boats completely taking over the only available lock landing at mechanised locks on the Lee.

 

So my complaint is about people blocking lock landings, not about people owning very big, and very expensive boats. I make the same complaint, whoever the "blocker".

 

In this case the obstruction is indeed made considerably worse because of the vastness of the boat, and it is not a boat that it looks particularly easy to tie onto the outside, and clamber across. (The back is enclosed completely by a very large pram hood).

[blackrose]

Your opinion.

 

My original thread complained of two boats inconsiderately moored opposite sides of the canal at Apsley. One was this fat wide beam, the other a narrow boat, (since moved on). If you recall I have in the past complained about miscellaneous low value boats completely taking over the only available lock landing at mechanised locks on the Lee.

 

So my complaint is about people blocking lock landings, not about people owning very big, and very expensive boats. I make the same complaint, whoever the "blocker".

 

In this case the obstruction is indeed made considerably worse because of the vastness of the boat, and it is not a boat that it looks particularly easy to tie onto the outside, and clamber across. (The back is enclosed completely by a very large pram hood).

 

Yes, my opinion. (It's just as valid as anyone else's)

 

Anyway, carry on Alan. Lock landing hoggers are a pet hate of mine too...

 

But the fact that you (and a couple of others) have highlighted the value of this particular boat (irrelevant in terms of causing an inconvenience), makes me wonder if that's one particular aspect causing some anger?

Edited December 28, 2011 by blackrose

[bizzard]

Your opinion.

 

My original thread complained of two boats inconsiderately moored opposite sides of the canal at Apsley. One was this fat wide beam, the other a narrow boat, (since moved on). If you recall I have in the past complained about miscellaneous low value boats completely taking over the only available lock landing at mechanised locks on the Lee.

 

So my complaint is about people blocking lock landings, not about people owning very big, and very expensive boats. I make the same complaint, whoever the "blocker".

 

In this case the obstruction is indeed made considerably worse because of the vastness of the boat, and it is not a boat that it looks particularly easy to tie onto the outside, and clamber across. (The back is enclosed completely by a very large pram hood).

Indeed there is a bit of a problem with often wide beam boats mainly mooring on the Stort on lock landings as there is little Armco-campshedding generally along this river and some of these boats i've discovered whilst working on them have no mooring stakes at all on board and probably no club hammer either, and or indeed just tie up there simply out of laziness.

[matty40s]

Indeed there is a bit of a problem with often wide beam boats mainly mooring on the Stort on lock landings as there is little Armco-campshedding generally along this river and some of these boats i've discovered whilst working on them have no mooring stakes at all on board and probably no club hammer either, and or indeed just tie up there simply out of laziness.

 

The only problem boats I found on the L&S when I was that way earlier in the year was BW boats, on lock landings, IN locks(gone for tea) and more lock landings, followed by visitor moorings.

The boat in question on the previous thread caused me great difficulty on a windy,rain swept day whilst single handing from Rickmansworth to Bourne End, and I had no qualms about "gently" bumping alongside.

[alan_fincher]

But the fact that you (and a couple of others) have highlighted the value of this particular boat (irrelevant in terms of causing an inconvenience), makes me wonder if that's one particular aspect causing some anger?

I guess not so much anger in my case, as very genuine surprise Mike, (honestly!).

 

I find it genuinely staggering that anybody comes to the canals spending a very substantial six figure sum to have a bespoke boat built to their requirements, but then has it launched with apparently no knowledge of the environment into which it is going, or of its possible impact.

 

We are not talking about complex stuff here. The fact that mooring on lock approaches causes problems would I should have thought be blindingly obvious to most people who have put themselves in such a situation, particularly after a year and a half living on board. As I said, just reading the "Boater's Guide" tells you not to, without any further research required.

 

It is clearly the case that if you commission a boat like this, that becomes the subject of a magazine review, and much internet discussion, you are going to be far more "conspicuous" than the average narrow boater. The whole topic of it being a residential boat, attracting a huge saving due to no VAT, and actual statements in the press that "the owner doesn't plan to travel very far" have made it perhaps one of the most "public" wide beams around. That, coupled with its sheer bulk, almost guarantees it is going to be noticed, so if the owner wants all the "noticing" to be positive, it is, in my opinion, important they quickly come up to speed on what are usually considered "unreasonable" practices by those actually wanting to move boats about the canal.

Edited December 28, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Guest]

Edit: Anyway, if anyone wants the virtual tour here it is:

 

http://www.piperboats.com/wide_beam.html

 

I wonder why the 240V socket in the master bedroom has been mounted upside down??? - it looks like a standard 240v plug, plugged into it (rather then an adaptor)...but the wire is coming out the top...