How the hell do I get out of this??

[Captain Lockheed]

18 Months ago we bought a narrowboat in rubbish order, with a view to using it to learn both the skills of boating and something about the practical problems.

 

The first Six months were great, we puttered around the waterways system, without a care in the world, fixing up the boat's mechanical issues, and generally got to a point where we were (so I thought) ready to get the hull out of the water, and if it turns out OK, re-black it and get the cabin replacement underway.

 

Since then its been a horrible experience, everyone we have tried to deal with in the role of "customer" has been either dishonest, unpleasant, or simply "nuts".

With the exception of Midland Chandlers, the wigrams wharf people, and one yard I went to near lichfield. In short I have now wasted a full year on promises that aren't kept, service which has been provided to a low standard and at a final price nearly double the original "quote", and just plain "nutters" everywhere.

 

I lost patience with the whole thing and put the boat up on ebay, 99p no reserve, winner "takes all" with a very honest listing so as the damn thing would go quickly without ripping off the buyer. Yeah, we got a third the price of a new hull for it, (which given that ours "ultrasounds" to a minimum 4.9mm, and the boat has a nice old engine,plus a very decent paloma plus a fresh survey etc. We thought the "buyers" were getting a bit of a bargain, certainly a better start than we got for spending twice as much money in the first place) but no, the buyers "withdrew", leaving us with the ebay fees to try and recover.

 

In the mean time, the robberies have started. During the last one, (obviously a fellow boater, as they carefully uninstalled my new engine start switch amongst other things, and only seemed to take chandlery and boating useful items, like my fire lighter, waterproof coat etc.)

 

SO, please fellow boaters, if you know, please tell me how the hell do I get out of this quickly? And with some return on my 11K of investment? Is it possible to get a scrapper to take the damn thing off me? (I'm on a CC licence so I have to keep the damn thing moving, but I don't want to go on the water any more, the state of my boat just seems to attract "ne-er do wells" of one sort or another, and I'm thoroughly sick of the whole paranoid and unpleasant experience).

 

Cheers, Steve C.

[jelunga]

I can only offer advice on eBay. If the buyer withdrew then you can get final value fees refunded by eBay. You could also do a "second chance" offer to the next highest bidders.

 

I am sorry your experience has not been pleasant. I find that a lot of suppliers to the market are very unprofessional in their dealings by using elastic clocks, failing to keep appointments and failing to complete jobs.

However there are some totally opposite. I think my advice would be to try again on eBay

[nigel carton]

I may be able to help but I can't pm you my contact details so here's my mobile 07989388109

 

Nigel

[Chris Pink]

1. Put it with a broker who doesn't mind the lower end

2. Advertise on apolloduck and boatsandoutboards.co.uk

3. Moor it near to other people who you know

4. Don't worry about CC rules, what can they do?

5. Get it craned out and onto a bit of hard

6. Find a boat sitter

7. Put it onto an unoccupied BW permanent mooring (see 4)

 

There is (sorry Steve) a salutary tale here; it is more and more frequent that there are boater on boater thefts going down and the obvious targets are non-liveaboards without moorings. After all, leaving £1000s worth of kit in the middle of nowhere is kind of asking for it.

 

The wider question, why more boater on boater thefts? Firstly there are more boats so more scumbags and second the promotion by BW of the canals for low end housing is having its natural result.

 

I can also help, dependent on location, ring me 07770271404

[Hairy-Neil]

I have now wasted a full year on promises that aren't kept, service which has been provided to a low standard and at a final price nearly double the original "quote", and just plain "nutters" everywhere.

 

This is endemic throughout the trades today. Not just boats, the whole building, automotive and light engineering industry is affected. I'm sure there are others too....

Edited December 23, 2011 by Hairy-Neil

[n.b.Goldie]

Cannot be of any practical help but would like to say that over the years I have been 'on-the-cut' I have had some wonderful service from suppliers. However they are very much in the minority and 'cowboys' outnumber them many times over as I too have found to my cost.

 

Whenever I am asked by someone who is considering boating on our Inland Waterways it is one of the first things I tell them so that they can boot up their 'CAVEAT EMPTOR' chip.

 

I am sure that if the motor-trade behaved in the same manner as 'suppliers' on the canal they would go out of business and probably be prosecuted by Trading Standards.

 

Rant over, got it off my chest..........

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[Ally]

Sounds like you really have had a lot of bad luck, but whilst you have been unfortunate, there ARE still good people out there. I would either re-advertise on Ebay, definately try Apollo duck, or get it to a broker. At the right price, with your survey open, it should go...it will also take the CC'ing part from you, and be a little safer if someone else is handling it.

Dominic may be along soon to suggest who to take it to broker wise, I am sure he would best know who could sell it for you.

Meanwhile, try and put it down to experience, kick back and try to enjoy some of christmas, then start afresh after.

Good luck!

[mickspangle]

It does sound like you have had some bad luck. Lots of good advice been given so far.

 

Only thing I would suggest, with reference to your usename, is to perhaps rename your narrowboat F104-G?

[cazberry]

I agree with Ally,...Ebay, Apollo Duck etc;

I'm afraid you're not alone in dealing with 'boaty' cowboys.

I was ripped off to the tune of thousands by someone I trusted...picked myself up and started again...lesson well and truly learnt.

There are some good boat workers around...just make sure you only use ones that have been recomended to you by people who have actually used them.

 

good luck with sorting everything!

[Guest wanted]

Hello, sorry to hear of your bad experiances, I hope you are able to chalk it up as a run of bad luck that can be reversed. As Ally has said, the good guys still exsist. If you do keep your boat for longer than planned may I suggest you have a good read through this forum. There is loads of good advice that may make you feel less isolated and maybe you may start to enjoy your boat as intended. Either way I wish you good luck.

 

Rob

[Hairy-Neil]

 

I am sure that if the motor-trade behaved in the same manner as 'suppliers' on the canal they would go out of business and probably be prosecuted by Trading Standards.

 

 

 

It's over a year since a friend placed his classic car with a body shop for a respray. He's looked in every few weeks to see how they've been getting on. There's been little or no progress, it's just been gathering dust at the back of the workshop. A few weeks back on the 1st aniversary he visited the shop and the guy made the usual excuses why it hadn't been worked on and that he's get on it next week (he's said all this a dozen times before). My friend told the guy to get it out and he'd come and collect it as is as he's pissed off with the project and going to get rid.

 

A couple of weeks pass and he's not been phoned to say its out so he goes to the shop again. Some work has now been started on the car but he told the guy not to do any more. He doesn't want it done, that he will to pay up to date and wants to remove it. Another week passes and it's still not out for collection, the son goes to the garage on his behalf to see the guy. The police become involved after a remonstration turns nasty. The guy tells the police that he has a contract to restore the car and is going to complete it.

[nigel carton]

Steve,

 

I've left a message on your phone, unfortunately I can't contact you through appalling Duck as I'm barred from using the site! never been barred from a pub but I have from a bloody website

Edited December 23, 2011 by nigel carton

[Doorman]

So sad that your first boating experience has been such a disaster.

 

As others have wisely said, try and pick yourself up, start over and before you know it all of this crap that's been served up will be forgotten. It's well worth pressing on as the end result will be so rewarding.

 

Good luck!

 

Mike

[Captain Lockheed]

 

*snip*

 

Chris said; "After all, leaving £1000s worth of kit in the middle of nowhere is kind of asking for it".

 

- I didn't. In economic terms I am one of the scumbags in desperate need of low cost housing, and that was why I sank (geddit) my one bit of money into a boat, in an effort to get some "security". My burglar took a nice shiny engine start switch maybe worth 15 quid in a chandlers, a part disassembled honda generator (numpty left the lead and sidepanels behind) My grey weatherproof coat and a crappy solar cell and two butane lighters (as far as I can tell). It wasn't worth the effort of them ripping the side doors off really..

 

Chris also said; "The wider question, why more boater on boater thefts? Firstly there are more boats so more scumbags and second the promotion by BW of the canals for low end housing is having its natural result".

 

- In truth, I've met some nice people who are operating their boat as "low end housing", but a lot of the people I have met living and working on the cut have just been scary, or scared. In all my life I've never actually met anyone who owns a personal firearm since the gun laws were changed, on the cut I have met two, one of whom has shot himself. I don't want any more of that life, thankyou. Way too edgy, I have a child fer crying out loud...

 

Chris finally said; "I can also help, dependent on location, ring me 07770271404"

 

- I tried calling and your phone doesn;t accept calls from my phone apparently! It did say try later, so I shall.. If you wish to PM me a landline, adn a suitable time to call I'll gladly try that instead. Thanks. Steve C.

 

It does sound like you have had some bad luck. Lots of good advice been given so far.

 

Only thing I would suggest, with reference to your usename, is to perhaps rename your narrowboat F104-G?

 

G.. G.. for Germany?? :c)

Edited December 23, 2011 by Captain Lockheed

[Albert Smith]

This is endemic throughout the trades today. Not just boats, the whole building, automotive and light engineering industry is affected. I'm sure there are others too....

 

Perhaps this sould read; 'This is endemic throughout the UK today'

 

I've bought a few boats over the years and learnt that business is best done outside the UK where possible, it may cost a little more but from my experience (mostly in Holland) the service is second to none. More recently I've looked at purchasing a narrowboat in the UK. The response from both commercial and private sellers is less than enthusiastic to say the least, the glass seems to be half empty rather than half full. UK sellers (albeit private or commercial) want the most reward for the least effort. There are exceptions of course, but those are few and far between and I've yet to find one.

 

Albert.

[Chris Pink]

- I tried calling and your phone doesn;t accept calls from my phone apparently! It did say try later, so I shall.. If you wish to PM me a landline, adn a suitable time to call I'll gladly try that instead. Thanks. Steve C.

 

 

 

Sorry I was replacing the screen on my iphone, back in the virtual world again after a brief cold bath in reality

[Doorman]

Perhaps this sould read; 'This is endemic throughout the UK today'

 

Want the most reward for the least effort.

 

Albert.

 

Yes, I agree. Having employed many young people in the past, it didn't go unnoticed that most of them felt the same, as if the world owed them a living without any effort being involved. Ironically, it was only the gay employees who pulled their weight, along with having a great personality that cheered my customers up no end.

 

I once had the accolade of employing the comedian Jonny Vegas for a night, before he became famous. He was less than motivated and such a miserable sod!

 

Anyone who's watched the television programme; 'Living With The Amish', will have noted how these often ridiculed people have such a good work ethic. I'm not religious in any way, but watching how they conduct themselves is truly admirable.

 

Mike

Edited December 23, 2011 by Doorman

[pearley]

This is endemic throughout the trades today. Not just boats, the whole building, automotive and light engineering industry is affected. I'm sure there are others too....

We obviously run the wrong sort of business. In my arm of the motor trade, vehicle electronics, whatever price we quoted that was what the customer paid, if the job took longer than we reckoned then we worked late to finish it, if it went wrong we bent over backwards to put it right and if that wasn't good enough, we would refund the customer.

 

We also always paid our bills on time!

 

Thats probably why we never made any money from it but at least we retired happy.

 

Seriously, there are some good boatyards out there. When something went wrong with our blacking at Pennine Cruisers, they took it back in, without any argument, and redid it.

 

Regards

Pete

[bargemast]

 

 

Anyone who's watched the television programme; 'Living With The Amish', will have noted how these often ridiculed people have such a good work ethic. I'm not religious in any way, but watching how they conduct themselves is truly admirable.

 

Mike

 

 

I second your writing about the Amish, close from where I was staying at friends of mine in Pennsylvania is an Amish community, if a couple marries, everybody comes to help them building a house, and they always help each other with heavy tasks.

 

If we can't pay for our fuel anymore, we'll be deap in the sh.., but for the Amish nothing changes, they don't need fuel, and don't need to spend a fortune to buy the alternative expensive electric cars either.

 

Their lives may look very far from ideal to us, but they live much closer to-, and with nature and it's natural resources.

 

Peter.

[Guest wanted]

As with everything there is at least teo sides

 

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/07/15/escaping-the-amish-part-1/

[KevMc]

Having employed many young people in the past, it didn't go unnoticed that most of them felt the same, as if the world owed them a living without any effort being involved. Ironically, it was only the gay employees who pulled their weight, along with having a great personality that cheered my customers up no end.

 

I don't know in what role you have employed youngsters in the past but I have to say that for the most part I find that kids these days are a lot more hardworking than I ever was ... they seem to understand that you have to earn a living whereas when I left school in the 70s I was able to do quite well because the skills I learnt at school prepared me for the workplace and I found it an easy transition and I hardly noticed the change..... or maybe that is exactly the problem - kids have to work at it these days because they don't know what to expect who knows

[Captain Lockheed]

OK, Here's the best thought out set of suggestions I have had so far. (Thanks, Chris)

 

1. Put it with a broker who doesn't mind the lower end

2. Advertise on apolloduck and boatsandoutboards.co.uk

3. Moor it near to other people who you know

4. Don't worry about CC rules, what can they do?

5. Get it craned out and onto a bit of hard

6. Find a boat sitter

7. Put it onto an unoccupied BW permanent mooring (see 4)

 

1. Sounds like a good idea if I can find one.

2. Done for some time now on Apollo Duck. Admittedly it's up at 10400, but it looks very comparable at that price to the others.

3. Don't really know anyone. Have met a few people that I recognise, but I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone by mooring this wreck near to someone's nice boat..

4. I signed up to the rules willingly I should follow them. eeing stuck somewhere with meachnical problems or because of ice, is fair enough, dumping my boat somewhere because I've become sickened with it, isn't fair play at all. (That's why I'm urgent to get rid of it.) It's no good complaining about the scumbags if when I face adversity I make it someone elses problem, is it?

5. Tried that. Got ripped off hugely and was not made at all welcome. Any one with canalside hardstanding wants to do the easy work to a low standard (for three times what I used to get paid as an aircraft engineer) as well as take a rent.

6. If it was habitable, I'd be moving it about and at least getting some small joy out of it.

7. See point 4.

 

SO. Can anyone recommend a decent broker? Near South Birmingham?

 

Cheers, Steve C.

[bargemast]

As with everything there is at least teo sides

 

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/07/15/escaping-the-amish-part-1/

 

 

I suppose that we all know that the perfect world doesn't exist, but as far as I can see (from the outside) there are many good sides of Amish life, and surely several less good, or even bad sides.

 

Peter.

[NB Willawaw]

Its not just the Amish.

 

There are plenty of traders out there with decent work ethics, who keep promises and have some sense of honesty and fairness.

 

The trick is to know which is which.

 

I don't know you and am not casting aspersions on you by any means, but conversely there are a lot of narrowboat owners who don't keep promises, don't pay their bills and are just looking to pay as little as they can get away with.

 

Unfortunately, there are good and bad on both sides of the fence.

[twbm]

Could we see some photos? You've obviously been badly affected by the experience: it may well be the wreck you say it is but you also say 'nice old engine' etc. etc. Could it be more recoverable than you think, I wonder?