how much?

[Québec]

This goes some way towards explaining why Brits buy while Germans rent:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/mar/19/brits-buy-germans-rent

[lewisericeric]

What do the germans know - they lost the war

[Rebotco]

It is quite true that in Britain, home ownership is far more popular than it is for our continental neighbours. As a financial advisor specialising in mortgages for many years (now retired), I believe there are historical reasons for this. One of the main ones was Mrs Thatchers "Right to Buy" initiative. When Council Houses could be bought at a real knockdown price instead of a lifetime renting, home ownership became a reality for millions who otherwise had little chance of owning their own home. In addition, the favourable treatment MIRAS made mortgage interest tax free and therefore exceptionally cheap. In addition the mortgage market in the UK became the most sophisticated in the world, with a huge range of possibilities available, which were never available in other countries. The law of supply and demand then kicked in - millions became able to buy their homes, demand therefore rose, and prices followed demand. This then increased demand even more, as people relised that it was also the best investment they could get and almost without risk (Safe as houses!). After 25 years they had a huge asset in the house they had bought, whereas the renter had precisely nothing. No contest!

There are of course other lesser factors, as well as exceptions, but those are the chief reasons that Britons buy and continentals rent

Ah! Come back Mrs Thatcher - all is forgiven! - Well, nearly all!

Brian

 

P.S. I've forgotten what the subject of this thread started out as!

[Donald Gilchrist]

COME BACK THATCHER!!!! I've got a bottle put aside for the day she dies.

[Doorman]

Hi Pete

 

Blimey how long is a piece of string ? All I can add is that I never have and never will Borrow money for a boat, in fact I dont borrow money at all though have had to do in the past. Borrowing severly curtails your freedom which is what boats are about.

 

A great maxim and one that if ever I'd had my time over again, would have adhered to. In this modern materialistic world, where everyone wants everything NOW, borrowing seems to be the method of madness.

 

Is it any wonder that banks post remarkable profit results, so soon after being near to ruins!

 

Mike

[WotEver]

What do the germans know - they lost the war...

... and won the peace

[Doorman]

What do the germans know - they lost the war

 

I quite like the Germans, mainly for their work ethic and attention to detail and yes, some of them do have a good sense of humour too. But not as good as the assembly worker at Fords in Halewood.

 

The German managers would often inspect the cars being built in the Liverpool car plant and without fail, comment on the poor quality of the English built vehicles. On one occasion, a manager commented to one of the lads who was busy at his task and said; "You English are not very good at building cars, are you", to which the lad retorted; "Yeah, but we can't half build Spitfires though!". The manager retreated like an italian tank with six reverse gears.

 

A true story that I will never forget.

 

Mike

Edited November 11, 2011 by Doorman

[peter nelson]

Off the top of my head, I'd say look for a GRP cruiser to get you onto the water. Not so many pennies to buy so easier on the pocket and less to maintain and moor. You would have to give up the no making up of beds caveat though but it's easy enough. If you're not planning to liveaboard for 15 - 20 years you'll be looking for a different boat in any case as your needs will be different. My first narrowbeam was a Dawncraft with a centre cockpit giving two sleeping areas. It was possibly the cheapest boat on the cut (and that was saying something in South Birmingham in the early nineties) and it gave me and Ellen years of harmless pleasure.

 

If you were saving at a rate of £250 per month then you cold borrow around 13k I guess and that'd give you a good quality GRP boat for your money and pay for the incidentals. Something like this, perhaps?

 

that boat looks ace just a few questions.

am i unable to get through low bridges and tunnels with a boat like that and how much will that limit my travels?

is the sleaping all in one room or will the girls have a seperate room to sleap in? wish it had interior pics i have emailed and asked for them.

 

pete

 

that boat looks ace just a few questions.

am i unable to get through low bridges and tunnels with a boat like that and how much will that limit my travels?

is the sleaping all in one room or will the girls have a seperate room to sleap in? wish it had interior pics i have emailed and asked for them.

 

pete

 

and whats the diference with maintanace on a grp (i belive thats glas rienforced plastic) will hull still need blacking ext

[jeddy11]

GRP being plastic will not rust so doesnt need blacking etc and so there is no maintenace needed on the hull of a GRP ..

 

That cruiser has a center cockipit which means you will have a cabin aft and a cabin foreward with kitchen / sleeping quarters /diner so yes 2 rooms.

 

The profile should be small enough to fit under canal bridges etc..

 

I have a 20ft cruiser and there is loads of room under bridges...

 

james

 

 

that boat looks ace just a few questions.

am i unable to get through low bridges and tunnels with a boat like that and how much will that limit my travels?

is the sleaping all in one room or will the girls have a seperate room to sleap in? wish it had interior pics i have emailed and asked for them.

 

pete

 

 

 

and whats the diference with maintanace on a grp (i belive thats glas rienforced plastic) will hull still need blacking ext

Edited November 11, 2011 by jeddy11

[mrsmelly]

I quite agree, Alan, after all, I am doing it myself. We also did well on our last property: bought in 2000 for £63,000 and sold in 2007 for just shy of double that figure, having rented it out for a couple of years prior to selling it. But many people in mainland Europe CHOOSE to rent, whereas over here we have it dinned into us that property ownership is something to which all sane people should aspire.

 

I agree totally. ok so I bought houses in the past and made massive profit for doin nowt BUT. My best mate a proffesional musician who earns a hell of a lot of money and could buy a house without even feeling it, RENTS. His resaon ? Well it gives him freedom and the major plus points for him are that for only 2 grand a month he rents and lives in a PROPER Scottish castle with a 900 acre garden steeped in history with fabulous bedrooms etc etc we stop there quite often and its amazing. For that kind of money he could get a mortgage on some crappy little house in London or he could buy a reasonable house somewhere nice BUT nothing remotely like where he now lives...........

[Athy]

Sounds like a splendid lifestyle. Is he a well-known musician?

[sebrof]

Mr. Forbes, your view of buying versus renting is a very British one. I too am British, and I (along with Mrs. Athy) now own my home freehold. But many of our Continental cousins, for example in Germany and France, are in favour of renting. The principal reason, I think, is that when something goes wrong, someone else (the landlord) pays the bills, and this expense should be set off against the cost of the rent. Of course, prudent home owners will take out insurance on their property, but there again it's an expense which a tenant does not have to meet, as he would pay only contents, not buildings, insurance.

So why did I buy rather than continuing to rent (I was living in school houses for some years)? Because I met Mrs. Athy who told me that I wished to own a property. She who must be obeyed, & c.

 

Beaky, there are several reasons why "many of our Continental cousins" don't own property. They include the fact that land is scarce in England, and property prices therefore high (so the economic arguments are more pressing); that thanks to building societies it has been easy to borrow cheaply; that the British are insular people in more ways than one, and like the privacy that a house provides (the proportion of houses which are owned is higher than that for flats); that for many years mortgage interest was tax-deductible, whilst rent was not; and no doubt there are others.

 

But the fact remains that at times of high inflation (and high inflation is returning), it makes economic sense to borrow in order to buy.

 

Your argument about the landlord having to pay the cost of repairs is fallacious. He has to charge a rent high enough to cover all his costs and make a profit, so ultimately it is the tenant who pays.

 

What do the germans know - they lost the war

 

It really is time that we abandoned this sort of "joke".

[mrsmelly]

Sounds like a splendid lifestyle. Is he a well-known musician?

 

Ill pm you

[sharpness]

Because I met Mrs........ who told me that I wished to own ........ She who must be obeyed, & c.

A good summing up of life, the universe etc.

 

Steve

[wrigglefingers]

GRP being plastic will not rust so doesnt need blacking etc and so there is no maintenace needed on the hull of a GRP ..

 

That cruiser has a center cockipit which means you will have a cabin aft and a cabin foreward with kitchen / sleeping quarters /diner so yes 2 rooms.

 

The profile should be small enough to fit under canal bridges etc..

 

I have a 20ft cruiser and there is loads of room under bridges...

 

james

 

Yep, pretty much agree although you will need to check the hull for integrity (and I still suggest that you get a surveyor for that as there's a reason why they're often known as 'splitters') and to make sure the gelcoat is intact or can be repaired if necessary. GRP hulls can suffer from osmosis but provided you repair any 'bruising' you may get they're perfectly sound and enjoyable boats to have. Many of the cheaper GRP boats will need or have already had a significant amount of interior refurbishment done but it's doable. Do make sure, if you want to cruise in the Midlands, that the beam of the boat doesn't go beyond 6'10'' or 2.10m as you won't fit a fatter boat in the locks. My Dawncraft had an inboard replacement diesel (a tiny Lister, it originally had an inboard petrol engine which I regarded as lethal so my Dad found a replacement from one of his mates) but a friend had a remote outboard which I know he found an easy introduction to boat life and folk who repair are fairly plentiful (and you can take the engine to the repairer).

 

For four of you, you'll need to look for a boat with an aft cabin or a boat with a bow cabin that divides. The Dawncraft slept 6, two in the aft cabin, two in the bow - which made into a triangular double with the 'bonk' board inserted and two singles mid-boat, although you had to want to wake up with your head resting on the kettle. Still, I could make the tea without actually getting out of bed so that had it's advantages too. Lucy II was the boat that got me well and truly hooked on boating. There are lots of boats available for the price you could save in a few years or raise on a loan (although I'd happier saving) and who knows, you may like it well enough to trade up to a steel coffin when you're ready.

 

Good luck and good searching - the best way to find a boat is to get on your feet and talk to people on the towpath and in marinas.

Edited November 11, 2011 by wrigglefingers

[Higgs]

Some figures, my boat. 59' trad. 16' saloon, 8' galley, a cabin with 2 x single bunks, shower cabin with toilet, double cabin with fixed double bed, engine room.

 

£8,000 down and 6yrs at £422.00 a month. Mooring, over that period about £15,000. Boat license, about £4,000.

 

As with a house, it cost me more to buy this way. Rent, for the kind of property I would have lived in, over the same period, would have been cheaper. But, I have my own place that's very mobile.

 

I really like the large saloon, spend a fair amount of time there and it doesn't feel cramped.

 

Working in boat yards for 10yrs, I've seen lots of boats with pityfully small saloons. If you are considering space for four people then some thought needs to be given to the size of saloon.

 

For socialising, whilst cruising, I'd have to say that a cruiser deck makes sense, but then you will loose space from the inside. It's just another consideration.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Higgs

[Doorman]

COME BACK THATCHER!!!! I've got a bottle put aside for the day she dies.

 

 

I'll drink to that...

[Dominic M]

What do the germans know - they lost the war

I don't know if you have heard or watched the German comedian Henning Wehn (who either lives in the UK or spends a lot of time here - I'm not sure which), but he was on the radio recently in a discussion about Anglo-German relations and views. He said that when performing to an audience it was necessary to tailor the content to some extent to the the type of audience, and whilst in Germany it is now 2011, he had to remember that in much of Britain it was still 1945, apparently.

 

Above lies the absolute proof of his statement

 

On a separate point, whilst it is true that property ownership and investment has offered fantastic returns since about 1960, providing you rode out a couple of dips, what indicates necessarily that this will continue to be the case? Some may say a rising population and therefore increased demand, but against that, from 1900 to 1950 the return on property (in terms of increase in value) was very small despite a fast growing population.

 

The era of being able to get a large mortgage with little or no deposit providing you were able to breathe and sign your name has gone. Property prices are standing still in some areas, dropping in others (except for London, which is an international market and not easy to compare with). Some pundits predict the current state of affairs continuing for another 10 years. And even if there is an upturn, it is possible that it will be a very slow and gradual one. Turnover is at a level way below 2007. No one knows, but whether ownership over rental will continue to be a better option is by no means certain.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Dominic M

[Guest]

I don't know if you have heard or watched the German comedian Henning Wehn (who either lives in the UK or spends a lot of time here - I'm not sure which), but he was on the radio recently in a discussion about Anglo-German relations and views. He said that when performing to an audience it was necessary to tailor the content to some extent to the the type of audience, and whilst in Germany it is now 2011, he had to remember that in much of Britain it was still 1945, apparently.

 

 

We were once in a cafe/bar in Italy on holiday when a couple came up to our table - there was no remaining seats but two seats at ours 'Excuse me' - 'Do you mind if we share your table' came the request in well spoken English.

 

'No no problem go ahead'

 

The next bit shocked me -

 

'We are German, again are you sure'

 

Spoke volumes.....

[Athy]

Your argument about the landlord having to pay the cost of repairs is fallacious. He has to charge a rent high enough to cover all his costs and make a profit, so ultimately it is the tenant who pays.

 

Not fallacious exactly, more of a terminological inecdactitude. I had meant to add, but omitted to, that (at least in theory) the landlord gets the repairs done so the tenant does not have to bother about doing so.