Springer Boats

[jonk]

A quick Google has updated my little knowledge of Springers, plus the excellent advice given here - 36' 6/6/4, ? 6/5/3, 40' 5/3, 23' 3/3/3

My assumption of 6mm bottom would therefore appear not entirely accurate! It would seem to be that the longer the boat the thicker the bottom, but not always? Still think that they are nice boats though.

John

[nbfiresprite]

Foxes built a new Springer last spring. Deem to be a rebuilt as they cut the top part of bows of the leaking old one and built a replacement using the bow section as work around the design copyright.

 

Firesprite

 

In the Wet and Windy Fens

Edited September 17, 2011 by nbfiresprite

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

I'm still unsure whether or not to buy a second hand boat and leave it as it is, gut a second hand boat and re-fit it; or build from a new shell.

 

<snip>

 

To be blunt, if you know little about narrowboats - buy a second hand one and find out. How can you expect to design the internal layout of a boat you have no experience of?

 

Richard

[Laurence Hogg]

Big Woolwich = Volvo 240; looks big and clumsy but steers beautifully and goes faster than it looks...

 

err as we are "D" types being the larger of the H&W build thats puts us in classic Jaguar parlance. However I would prefer us linked to a U boat in our case. U109 was a type type 9b, it first Kommandant shared one of our family names (Fisher/Fischer)and sadly she was sunk exactly ten years to the day, before my birthday!

[nbfiresprite]

Whats comes to mind, Is which make is the ' Rolls' or the Maybach?

 

Firesprite

 

On the Wet and Windy Fens

Edited September 17, 2011 by nbfiresprite

[n.b.Goldie]

Foxes built a new Springer last spring. Deem to be a rebuilt as they cut the top part of bows of the leaking old one and built a replacement using the bow section as work around the design copyright.

 

Firesprite

 

In the Wet and Windy Fens

 

I thought Springer was out of business. If so and the 'copyright ' is infringed who's business will be damaged and suffer financial loss to the degree that suing would be justified/possible?

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[nbfiresprite]

I thought Springer was out of business. If so and the 'copyright ' is infringed who's business will be damaged and suffer financial loss to the degree that suing would be justified/possible?

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

 

I gather they did so, Just to be on the safe side, The copyright would still be owned even if the company is not longer trading.

 

Firesprite

 

In the Wet and Windy Fens

[Athy]

Sprite, this is not the one used as a day-hire boat, is it? Alan or Gerald told me that was just a refurbishment with a new engine.

[nbfiresprite]

Sprite, this is not the one used as a day-hire boat, is it? Alan or Gerald told me that was just a refurbishment with a new engine.

 

Its not 'Speedy Fox' bui a new build for someone who required it to be a copy of his old springer (In which the hull was rotten).

 

Firesprite

[MtB]

IIRC when I forst took an interest in the canals in 1977 I investigated buying a Springer. ISTR Sam sold narrowboat kits too, which I have yet to see mentioned on this forum. IIRC one could buy all the steel cut to shape and formed (?!) ready for the buyer to stick together using an arc welder bought from Halfords all for around £1k.

 

I never had the balls to go for it, but I have a sneaky suspicion some of the Springers around make not be totally professionally welded....

 

Mike

[Midnight Rider]

If you carry on with this analogy, does it mean Phylis has a Reliant Robin, (or, let's be gracious, a Reliant Scimitar)?

Hey! ---- I had a Reliant Scimitar for 15 years ---- bloody good car it was too.

[tony collins]

This is a Springer Water Bug. Handy little boats.

http://www.notts-boats.co.uk/narrowboat-rocky.html

I note that the person who named it has a sense of humour, because "Rocky" would certainly roll if someone stepped on the gunwale. It feels more alarming than it is and is a function the short length and vee hull design.

[Midnight Rider]

Saw a tidy looking 26ft one at Fradley, called 'Baldrick'

 

It says 'Many thanks Sam Springer' (or similar) on the side.

[journeyperson]

There is a Springer out of the water between New Marton Locks and the Jack Mytton pub on the Llangollen; it's been there for over two years now undergoing a gradual refurbishment. It has rounded chines, something I've not seen mentioned in various discussions about Springers. I'll be passing it tomorrow so I'll take a pic and post it here.

 

ETAP

 

 

OK, not curved, but not V and not altogether flat.

Edited September 19, 2011 by journeyperson

[Laurie Booth]

But in terms of low water, the disadvantage of a V hull is that it has a deeper draught overall than the equivalent flat bottomed boat.

My draught is 2ft. On my Springer.

[Alan Saunders]

But in terms of low water, the disadvantage of a V hull is that it has a deeper draught overall than the equivalent flat bottomed boat.

With a centre-corridor layout that is not true. My 33' 'semi-V' draws 9" at the side and 22" in the centre which conforms nicely to most canal profiles. It is a bit more 'tippy' than the average canal boat, it rolls a bit when you step from side-to-side, i.e. it is almost a proper, real boat!

 

'V' or 'U' is the best hull shape for shorter narrowboats. Even on the distinctly 'saucer shaped' profile of the K&A I can usually moor close to or within stepping distance of a remote bankside. On the same canal I usually cannot get the stern of my 24" draught flat-bottomed boat within seven foot of the side.

 

Traditional, rounded, hull shapes may work as well or better on our canals. Flat bottoms produce the maximum cargo capacity and the greatest freedom of interior layout. When you are hanging on to the centre rope, wondering how you will get aboard, with the bow and stern both grounded seven feet from the bank you will wish you had a shallower draught or, better, a semi-V, (double chine?).

 

Alan

[Pentargon]

My draught is 2ft. On my Springer.

 

'Spose it's ok to hang myself on this line since it's awful quiet in here among the Silent Springers? I hate starting new threads as all the stuff gets fragmented and I'm going to be the resident "SpringerBore" since there seems to be a vacancy and this looks like a good place to reside. BTW, to satisfy the purists on this forum (and are some right pure ones here) I've spent 6mts boning up on Springers, have read every reference to Springers on the web and every book on t'cut in every library from Rugby to [currently] Harefield (18 different books Dewey386 for fellow nerds) Not for nuttin is the Springer known as the "Morris Minor Of T'cut" (Thanks ATHY!)

 

I've also at last found time to root around Pentargon, egged on by my scraping the skeg on something in the middle of a bridge North of Milton Keynes. Having considered Pentargon's aspect, I reckoned she was lying too low in the water for her own good and she was nose up arse down as well as lying to port almost 3º. (Pentargon's gangway runs down the stabord side but nobody ever bothered to ballast her to suit). So up with the sole plates and out with half a tonne of concrete slabs from under the galley (aft end of the cabin) port and stabord. A plumb line nailed to the ceiling and dropping 60" allowed for serious trigonometry if needed. It wasn't!

 

About half the slabs were used to pave the bank by a significant mile-post. The others were used to pave the gangway. You heard!

 

Suffice to say the arse end is raised about 4" so the top of the rudder just protrudes from the water and the plane of the uxter is about 1" under the water line. The 'power' supply is an SR2, which is run at the lowest revs which will push her along. I was thinking of running her with the uxter plate just touching as we get closer to London. No worries about cavitation when you're using 2 or 3 of the alleged 12 horses and your bow wave is never more than 2" high. A humourous side-effect of realigning the boat is that I can make proper pancakes as the the cooker is now four square. Before, the poured batter was going aft as the onboard Nelson is not gimbelled. I can't tell you what Pentargons draught is because as long as she floats and handles I don't really care.

 

Currently lying at Uxbridge downstream of the General Elliott because I just can't be arsed driving in t'rain, Little Venice is scheduled for end of next week. Maybe. And the Springer site is open for business. Bring it on.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Pentargon

[uncle bede]

Foxes built a new Springer last spring. Deem to be a rebuilt as they cut the top part of bows of the leaking old one and built a replacement using the bow section as work around the design copyright.

 

Firesprite

 

In the Wet and Windy Fens

How exactly do you avoid breaching copyright building a narrowboat?

 

I'm a fabricator welder by trade and some years ago bought some drawings with the intention of building my own 35 or so foot cruiser for weekend and holiday use.

 

What could possibly cause me concern regarding copyright?

 

I don't intend copying any boat like for like but if I build my own to my own spec, and by chance it winds up very similar to another manufacturer's design how can this be distinguished? Especially since many are bespoke anyway? A boat's a boat, surely?

[Hastings]

How exactly do you avoid breaching copyright building a narrowboat?

 

I'm a fabricator welder by trade and some years ago bought some drawings with the intention of building my own 35 or so foot cruiser for weekend and holiday use.

 

What could possibly cause me concern regarding copyright?

 

I don't intend copying any boat like for like but if I build my own to my own spec, and by chance it winds up very similar to another manufacturer's design how can this be distinguished? Especially since many are bespoke anyway? A boat's a boat, surely?

There's no problem with copyright if you build a narrow boat with the traditional design features - a pointy bow, a semi-circular (ish) rear counter/stern, tiller steering, engine in an engine 'ole or under the rear deck, 6' 10" wide, any length up to 72", box shaped, etc. Around 150-200 years of experience simply shows that all or most of those parameters are best for our canal system. And these days, most boats are fabricated from steel.

 

But copyright problems might arise if you incorporate design features the origin of which can easily be attributed to a particular person or company, and in narrow boat terms, the combination of V or U shaped hull and the "moustache" at the bows were undoubtedly originated by Sam Springer, so I suspect that this design is copyright. The V hull on its own may not be, because a few boats before Springer started building probably had such a profile, but the "moustache" was new when he introduced it. Combine this with functional, but not very well finished welding (I'm trying to be nice - I owned a Springer in the 1980s and the finish of the welding was awful!), and the square back end favoured by Springer for many of his boats, and you're potentially into murky water if you build such a boat for financial gain. And there's a point - if you build the boat yourself, you're unlikely to be sued, because there would be no financial gain on which the successors to Springer Engineering could hang a breach of copyright claim.

 

As an aside, it's interesting now how some people are actually saying how good Springers are. I agree, I had one, but everyone joked about them when I had mine in the early 1980s. But apparently, most of the Springers ever built are still around. Like most Rolls Royces are. Have I strayed into another topic?

[Athy]

I don't think Springer invented those "moustaches" (splash boards? splash guards?) Surely they had been a feature of river barges for some years before Springer commenced production.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Athy

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

If you carry on with this analogy, does it mean Phylis has a Reliant Robin, (or, let's be gracious, a Reliant Scimitar)?

[Hastings]

I don't think Springer invented those "moustaches" (splash boards? splash guards?) Surely they had been a feature of river barges for some years before Springer commenced production.

I bow to to your greater knowledge (and I seem to remember seeing photos of such barges), but it's the combining of everything together in a particular concept that is key to copyright. There's not much new about any of the individual bits of the outside of the original Mini car designed by Issigonis - e.g. round headlights, outside seams, chrome grille, four wheels etc., but the overall design is copyright.

[Grace and Favour]

How exactly do you avoid breaching copyright building a narrowboat?

 

I'm a fabricator welder by trade and some years ago bought some drawings with the intention of building my own 35 or so foot cruiser for weekend and holiday use.

 

What could possibly cause me concern regarding copyright?

 

I don't intend copying any boat like for like but if I build my own to my own spec, and by chance it winds up very similar to another manufacturer's design how can this be distinguished? Especially since many are bespoke anyway? A boat's a boat, surely?

There's absolutely no risk whatsoever.

 

The boat's for you - you're not going into commercial production of anything.

 

You can copy Coca Cola's recipe (if you can find it) for your own, discrete, consumption

But you cannot sell it!

Simple as that

[uncle bede]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I visited Crick some years ago when I was seriously looking into building one some years ago to look over them and it shocked me how poor some of them were. I remember one shell, painted in red oxide, by possibly Liverpool boats that was a disgrace to fabrication and then a couple further along was finished and welded beautifully by contrast. I don't remember the manufacturers though because my plans hit the back burner when the recession hit and my interest largely dropped to nothing more than a distant dream.

 

I'll be at Crick on Sunday though to once again point and laugh at some shoddy craftsmanship and appreciate the ones built by people who know how to craft steel plate.

 

Springers shouldn't get such a raw deal when the boats of some of their detractors are no better.

 

As an aside, has this forum swapped boards? I joined 8 years ago and was a regular poster, learning a hell of a loaf about narrowboats but my posts have been reset to zero?

 

Also, is Gary still around that was, back then, a popular member that built boats and input lots of very useful info and pics?

[MtB]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I visited Crick some years ago when I was seriously looking into building one some years ago to look over them and it shocked me how poor some of them were. I remember one shell, painted in red oxide, by possibly Liverpool boats that was a disgrace to fabrication and then a couple further along was finished and welded beautifully by contrast. I don't remember the manufacturers though because my plans hit the back burner when the recession hit and my interest largely dropped to nothing more than a distant dream.

 

I'll be at Crick on Sunday though to once again point and laugh at some shoddy craftsmanship and appreciate the ones built by people who know how to craft steel plate.

 

Springers shouldn't get such a raw deal when the boats of some of their detractors are no better.

 

As an aside, has this forum swapped boards? I joined 8 years ago and was a regular poster, learning a hell of a loaf about narrowboats but my posts have been reset to zero?

 

Also, is Gary still around that was, back then, a popular member that built boats and input lots of very useful info and pics?

 

 

Gary pulled out of boatbuilding four or five years ago IIRC, ands we haven't seen or heard from him since.

 

MtB