To blue or not to blue....

[Ernie]

Apologies if this subject has been covered before, I suspect it has but I searched for previous post and couldn’t find anything.

 

I have a macerator toilet feeding into a 60 gallon stainless steel holding tank.

 

QUESTION: Should I be using ‘toilet blue’, nothing or something else.

 

On searching the web in general on this topic, I came up with many conflicting answers ( brewers yeast being one of them ).

 

Any advise welcome…..

 

Thanks

Ernie

[John Orentas]

I think the general opinion is that the 'Blue' is as good as any, there have been many alternatives marketed over the years I think I have tried them all. As for using nothing at all there have been reports that the stuff inhibits septic tanks and sewage treatment plants from working properly but I think that is discounted now, I do know that some yards are a bit sniffy about emptying untreated tanks.

[stuart]

I've not used anything in the tank so far - 6 months on and its still okay. Only had a few pump outs too so regularly half full/empty. No smell to notice so far.

[DaveR]

Last year I did have a comment at one pump out station that blue was soon to be bannished - anyone heard anything about that?

[Bernie]

We were advised when we bought our boat that nothing was needed due to having a remote holding tank. Being the sceptic that I am we used toilet blue, have since cleared it all out and find that there is now no odour which there was at times when using blue. So we now prefer without.

[Pat]

The problem with blue is that, once you use it, you can never go back to using yeast or other more eco friendly products. Residues of blue will prevent anything else from working properly. Blue is very effective, but nasty stuff. Its very bad for you if you get it on your skin. Kind of smells of chewing gum though...

[Ernie]

Thanks for all the info. I think the next time I pump out I will give the blue a miss and see what happens.

Cheers

Ernie

[wrigglefingers]

Okay, next question....

 

We're about to commision the new Portapotti (excitement). The old one used Aquakem Blue but I'm reluctant, as it's nasty stuff. Is the Green stuff any better (it comes in smaller bottles and is more expensive) or is it just a new way of extracting more money from us?

 

Jill

[John Orentas]

Some of the stuff you can buy is little more than a deodorant and a pretty colouring and having no destructive action at all, that is probably why their effectiveness seems to wear off.

 

By definition I am not sure there can be a 'Green' additive which organically breaks down the fluids.

[Keeping Up]

I do know that some yards are a bit sniffy about emptying untreated tanks.

If I was emptying an untreated tank, 'sniffy' is the LAST thing I'd want to be.

 

Seriously though, we've never used blue in our tank (it's just a dump-through, not a macerator); the stuff we use is a biological treatment normally used by farmers in their septic tanks. They tried to introduce it to the boat market but had no success because if you've been using blue it takes 3 or 4 complete flushes of the tank to get rid of it (until then it doesn't work because the blue kills it off every time) - but they're still happy to sell us a litre at a time instead of the gallons that the farmers usually buy.

 

Allan

[Canal Shop Man]

Is the Green stuff any better (it comes in smaller bottles and is more expensive) or is it just a new way of extracting more money from us?

 

Jill

Aquakem Blue used to be based on formaldehyde, the same as Elsan Blue and most 'Own Brand' Blue. Last year they decided that Formaldehyde was going to be banned so they took it out of their Blue. Now their Blue doesn't work very well and they are now offering various cleaners to get rid of the black spots which are appearing in some toilets!

Since then the EU has decided it won't ban Formaldehyde, so if you want a good one use Elsan Blue (or an own brand, which may well be made by Elsan anyway!).

If you want to be 'green' then try either 'Odorlos' or 'Biomagic' These are both based on the principle of encouraging the 'good' bugs which don't smell to break down your waste rather than the 'bad' bugs which do!! (A bit like those healthy yoghurts . . .)

It's best to use one of these in a porta-potty type toilet due to the proximity of the waste, otherwise you could just let it break down naturally without any additive.

[wrigglefingers]

Aquakem Blue used to be based on formaldehyde, the same as Elsan Blue and most 'Own Brand' Blue. Last year they decided that Formaldehyde was going to be banned so they took it out of their Blue. Now their Blue doesn't work very well and they are now offering various cleaners to get rid of the black spots which are appearing in some toilets!

Since then the EU has decided it won't ban Formaldehyde, so if you want a good one use Elsan Blue (or an own brand, which may well be made by Elsan anyway!).

If you want to be 'green' then try either 'Odorlos' or 'Biomagic' These are both based on the principle of encouraging the 'good' bugs which don't smell to break down your waste rather than the 'bad' bugs which do!! (A bit like those healthy yoghurts . . .)

It's best to use one of these in a porta-potty type toilet due to the proximity of the waste, otherwise you could just let it break down naturally without any additive.

 

After spending some considerable time in very close proximity to a portapotti recently, the thought of not treating the waste isn't an option but I would prefer not to use formaldehyde. Thanks for the info - I'll look out for your suggestions.

 

Long-term aim is to fit a composting lav but that's going to take some thinking about.

 

Jill

[blackrose]

By definition I am not sure there can be a 'Green' additive which organically breaks down the fluids.

 

There is actually some stuff called Green made by Elsan which doesn't contain formaldehyde and is a lot less toxic to the environment. It seems to work ok although it's slightly more expensive. I'm not sure how the blue that goes into sanitary stations is dealt with, but it's nasty stuff & any product thats less toxic has got to be better.

[blackrose]

A I spoke to a guy from LeeSan who reckons blue is bad for rubber seals becaue of the formaldehyde. I asked about green and he said he didn't know because they didn't list active ingredients. Called Elsan to find out what was in green but they were a bit coy about telling me at first and then said it was biocides. They say it doesn't work as well as blue and they're not even sure if it's any better for the environment! Apparemtly the formaldehyde in blue breaks down after 3 days and is rendered non-toxic (not sure why that doesn't happen in the bottle?) Anyway, the guy from Elsan was very surprised at what the guy from LeeSan had said. I think they need to liaise on this!

Edited June 3, 2006 by blackrose

[Richard Bustens]

Small quantities of formaldehyde does no harm in the canal.

 

I treat the Koi pond with a mixture of 310ml of formaldehyde and 160 ml of malachite green every 4 weeks to keep sterile. that is 4760 galls or 21.21 tons of water.

[blackrose]

In the canal? What are you saying? I hope you're not suggesting that people chuck their waste in the canal? It may appear to be a vast quantity of canal water but it certainly wouldn't be small quantities of formaldehyde if everyone did that. When I mentioned the environment in a previous post I was referring to what happens to it after disposal in an elsan point - apparently some councils have banned it.

 

Anyway, the solution to pollution is not dilution!

Edited June 3, 2006 by blackrose

[Richard Bustens]

No im'e not suggesting that waste goes into the canal, but what goes down the elsan point gets back into the water course in the long run, im'e just saying that it will do no harm when it does, my koi thrive on it it keeps all sorts of mites and bugs off the fish.

[blackrose]

Ok, but I think it goes through sewage treatment before it goes back into any watercourses so hopefully it's well broken down by then.

 

But I didn't know it was used on fishponds - I thought it was toxic to the marine environment? At least that's what it says on the bottle.

Edited June 4, 2006 by blackrose

[Richard Bustens]

Yes it is toxic it has to be mixed with the malacite to counteract it , but that is the same stuff that is in the toilet stuff

 

http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/nt-labs-pond-treatments.htm

 

See the 3rd or 4th down FMG same stuff only i mix it myself.

[lizandjill]

If I was emptying an untreated tank, 'sniffy' is the LAST thing I'd want to be.

 

Seriously though, we've never used blue in our tank (it's just a dump-through, not a macerator); the stuff we use is a biological treatment normally used by farmers in their septic tanks. They tried to introduce it to the boat market but had no success because if you've been using blue it takes 3 or 4 complete flushes of the tank to get rid of it (until then it doesn't work because the blue kills it off every time) - but they're still happy to sell us a litre at a time instead of the gallons that the farmers usually buy.

 

Allan

 

 

This sounds interesting. Can you give a product name, and where is the best place to look for this stuff?

[Keeping Up]

This sounds interesting. Can you give a product name, and where is the best place to look for this stuff?

It's not available in shops, only direct from the farm near Maidstone where they make it; it's called Bioforce Marine - I am guessing that their organic land-tank version is just called Bioforce - and the company is called GOC Technologies UK Ltd (I think it stands for Global Odour Control). Phone 01622 876149 the chap I deal with is David Moyce at dmoyce@goctechnologies.co.uk

 

I last bought a bottle a year ago. It cost about £20 for a litre I think, and we add 20ml to our 35 gallon tank after each pumpout so that's 50 tankfuls from one bottle (that's about 2 years for the 2 of us, or actually 4 years because we only live on the boat for 6 months of the year)

 

Allan

[blackrose]

Two different people from LeeSan's technical dept have told me they don't recommend Blue (or Green?) in any of their products as it promotes the formation of sludge in tanks which is difficult to get out *. They say that effuent will break down on its own and you don't need anything! Interesting, I'm sure the Elsan people wouldn't be happy - or my chandlery for that matter, who I sometimes hear explaining the merits of blue to new boaters.

 

* They say this does not apply to other company's products, but I don't see why the same principal wouldn't?

[Breals]

I never found blue paricularly effective at reducing odours. I have now switched to Odorlos which is a commercial version of what KeepingUp uses. To prepare for this I spent two months not using blue (the backdraft from the toilet during this time was gross) and during this time I rinsed out the tank three times at each pumpout.

 

I started with the Odorlos (when I eventually got round to buying some from Whilton Chandlery) last weekend. For the first few days there was no discernible effect, but on Tuesday I noticed that there was virtually no smell at all coming from the tank when I flushed - even when I put my face near the bowl and sniffed deeply..... ahhhh! I suppose there were still remnants of blue which initially inhibited the bacteria.

 

According to the sales blurb, the bacteria Odorlos encourages will help digest solid matter in the tank, which I suppose will help prevent solid layers building up at the bottom. We'll see. Blue would inhibit any bacterial activity, so the solid matter would be preserved, which is not really what you want.

 

For the time being, don't use blue, try an Odorlos type product first if you think you need it.

Edited June 22, 2006 by Breals

[Janet S]

I put my face near the bowl and sniffed deeply..... ahhhh!

 

Well, whatever turns you on.....

 

Janet