Liveaboards other than residential

[ditchcrawler]

If I remember correctly a marina up near Burton turfed all its live aboards out a few years back leaving lots of boaters looking for new moorings

[jelunga]

I think the real answer is down to money and location. If you have enough money there is always a legal solution. You want to moor somewhere? Buy a piece of land, get planning permission, install all necessary facilites and Bob is your uncle.

The other methods are variations based on what you can afford. If you can afford a Marina berth you should not have trouble finding one to give you what you want. If you are not able to afford a marina then on line mooring could work. But if you want to annoy and upset most of theother boaters who abide by the rules and pay their way, then just moor on a waterpoint or in a winding hole or justnext to a bridge pile the towpath with your rubbish, never move, and have your bow or stern mooring break loose every other day to allow yr boat to drift across and block the canal whilst you are at work. That will do it!

[Tim]

And the advice is to do a search of the forum as this subject has been done to death far too many times.

 

As have many other subjects, so should you question the point of any discussions at all?

[mayalld]

Unfortunately it is a FAQ that has no definitive answer.

 

Contrary to popular opinion you are not breaking the law, if you are living on land which has no residential planning permission and if somebody complains to the planning authority you will not be "told to leave your mooring", by the planning officer, you will be told to apply for retrospective planning permission. The landowner may not want the hassle and turf you off, of course.

 

I lived for many years next to an offside BW mooring, with no residential planning permission.

 

No laws were broken and the mooring is still occupied by liveaboards, 5 years later, with no hassle.

 

Could I take the unusual step of agreeing with Carl!

[carlt]

Could I take the unusual step of agreeing with Carl!

I've changed my mind

[Minos]

I used to teach philosophy. That was easy compared with this.

 

There are rules. Hell, there are even laws. Then there are contractual requirements and principles of due diligence and tort.

 

And then there is the fundamental principle of "what you can get away with."

 

If you've got balls of steel and an arsey demeanour, you'll get away with a lot.

[sebrof]

Thanks Roy and Caprifool

 

I admit that having read a few of the threads I am still a bit hazy as to understanding exactly what the options are and how do-able each option is. Not all the threads explain them in simple terms. There is a lot of terms banded about such as CCing, residential mooring, leisure mooring, visitors mooring etc but I was unsure of the legality and availability of each type.

 

I'm only just beginning to understand the differences so please don't hate me for being a newby.

Thank you also NB Alnwick for your help, I appreciate it.

 

Send a PM to Mr Mayall, and ask him for his opinion. You will find him very willing to share his views with you.

[mayalld]

Send a PM to Mr Mayall, and ask him for his opinion. You will find him very willing to share his views with you.

 

Indeed I will.

 

Quite happy to share them in public as well

[Keeping Up]

Unfortunately it is a FAQ that has no definitive answer.

 

Contrary to popular opinion you are not breaking the law, if you are living on land which has no residential planning permission and if somebody complains to the planning authority you will not be "told to leave your mooring", by the planning officer, you will be told to apply for retrospective planning permission. The landowner may not want the hassle and turf you off, of course.

 

I lived for many years next to an offside BW mooring, with no residential planning permission.

 

No laws were broken and the mooring is still occupied by liveaboards, 5 years later, with no hassle.

 

But if you apply for retrospective planning permission, it is very likely to be refused. The council are then able to tell you to leave, and they then have the backing of the law because of that refusal.

 

I do not know the exact position if, having been told to apply for planning permission, you then fail to do so. When that happened to me, I was able to demonstrate to the "Consultant Enforcement Officer" that I was not using my mooring residentially so I did not need to apply; whereas my neighbour who was residential did make the application and it was initially refused because the same people who had reported him then campaigned vigorously against it.

[carlt]

But if you apply for retrospective planning permission, it is very likely to be refused.

That depends on how long you have been living there, without complaint or enforcement.

 

..... my neighbour who was residential did make the application and it was initially refused because the same people who had reported him then campaigned vigorously against it.

Does this mean he was ultimately successful?

[Keeping Up]

That depends on how long you have been living there, without complaint or enforcement.

 

 

Does this mean he was ultimately successful?

 

Yes he was ultimately successful, on appeal to a higher authority based on that very reasoning that he or his predecessor had been living there for over 10 years without complaint or enforcement. However his success was limited solely to himself and his immediate family, living on that particular boat. If he were to buy a new boat, or sell the land, the permission would automatically lapse.

[carlt]

However his success was limited solely to himself and his immediate family, living on that particular boat. If he were to buy a new boat, or sell the land, the permission would automatically lapse.

i am not aware of the existence of any such planning permission, but I may be wrong.

 

Residential Planning permission is awarded, as change of use, to the land, not the person, as far as I'm aware.

[Keeping Up]

i am not aware of the existence of any such planning permission, but I may be wrong.

 

Residential Planning permission is awarded, as change of use, to the land, not the person, as far as I'm aware.

 

Yes but the document which grants the permission states that it is issued "Subject to the following conditions ... " and one of those conditions is that it is personal to the applicant.

 

Of course, the precedent that has been set may well mean that a subsequent application by another occupier would be treated favourably, but there is no guarantee.

[larkshall]

OK put simply, the main options are

1) Have a residential mooring: rare and expensive, but you can expect a PO box and can register to vote at your mooring address.

2) Have a leisure mooring in a marina, but live on the boat full time. Common, but you will either be addressless or need a friend/relative to pick up the mail, put you on the electral register etc. OK if the marina owner "turns a blind eye" but you could be turfed out on short notice if you don't conform.

3) Offside private mooring. Rare unless you own the property, but if you can get it it's up to the land owner whether you can live aboard part/full time or not.

4) Have a leisure mooring on tow path, but live on the boat full time. Similar to 2) but BW will almost certainly turn a blind eye, but you get very few facilities.

5) leisure mooring and you only live aboard part time: no legal issues, but you need a place to live when you're not on the boat.

6) continuously cruise (CC). Legally you need to move at least every 2 weeks and you "must" be genuinely cruising the network. In practise the latter is a grey area, if you only move 2 miles every fortnight you might get hassled by BW or even taken to court, but more importantly you'll incur the wrath of many boaters who resent the fact that you are neither paying for a mooring nor genuinely CCing. Again the CC licence doesn't give you a permanent address.

 

 

Please don't take the bad replies to heart as there are many people on this forum willing to help and give really good advice especially to newbies and I for one am VERY grateful to those who have helped me on this forum.

 

 

Very good and succinct reply to the Original Poster.

[jonk]

TimD gave an excellent summary but it can be reduced further for full-time liveaboards.

I believe there are 3 legal options if you use BW or EA waters:

1. Continuously cruise. (That is make progress round the system, only staying at any one place for the designated time, or 14 days otherwise, and then move onwards)

2. Have a residential mooring.

3. Cruise for part of the year and take a residential mooring for the rest.

 

All other options are 'grey areas' and are pushing the rules, although many do this with no problem.

 

Others will correct me if I am wrong but that is what I understand the situation to be.

 

John

[Ssscrudddy]

1st post for me. I'm thinking of getting a narrowboat to live on. Getting a residential mooring seems to be a hassle. There is only 1 place suitable for me, & that is in a new marina close to where I work, but the office isnt open yet (as it's not built). I went on a guided tour of the place, but their leaflet giving website address, e-mail & telephone contacts was no good.

 

At the moment they remain uncontactable, so I dont even know if they have any residential berths left (they have 6 residential in total of which I think 3 are definately gone)& 80 moorings in total.

 

Anyway I was wondering if I would be allowed to get a permanent mooring, as well as travel.

A friend used to live on a caravan park. For 1 month a year he had to leave as it wasnt residential, so he would stay with me for that 1 month. then he would be back in his caravan.

 

Presumably the same thing applies to the permanent mooring, in that I cant live there due to planning permission (it not being residential)& would need to vacate for 1 month a year. I know the boat could be moored there permanently if I'm not living on it. But if I was to travel each weekend, so Friday night after work, chug up the river a bit perhaps travel Saturday, & return to the Marin Sunday night. Also go off on a trip when me & the GF get a week or 2 together... hopefully adding up to 1 month away from the marina.

 

The Marina itself I think is run by EA, but I cannot seem to provoke a response from them in any way.

 

I personally would be happy to moor for 2 weeks in 1 place (central to work) then 2 weeks time move to point B 6 miles away, then 2 weeks later move to point C 6 miles in the other direction, then 2 weeks later back to the original point A. But obviously some peeps wouldnt like this & would see it as not CCing & also trying shirk paying my way.

 

I dont particularly want a residential mooring, but I do want secure mooring for while I'm at work away from the boat, hencce thinking of getting a permanent mooring at the new Marina.

 

I just wondered if those of you who do live on a boat think this is even doable?

[sueb]

1st post for me. I'm thinking of getting a narrowboat to live on. Getting a residential mooring seems to be a hassle. There is only 1 place suitable for me, & that is in a new marina close to where I work, but the office isnt open yet (as it's not built). I went on a guided tour of the place, but their leaflet giving website address, e-mail & telephone contacts was no good.

 

At the moment they remain uncontactable, so I dont even know if they have any residential berths left (they have 6 residential in total of which I think 3 are definately gone)& 80 moorings in total.

 

Anyway I was wondering if I would be allowed to get a permanent mooring, as well as travel.

A friend used to live on a caravan park. For 1 month a year he had to leave as it wasnt residential, so he would stay with me for that 1 month. then he would be back in his caravan.

 

Presumably the same thing applies to the permanent mooring, in that I cant live there due to planning permission (it not being residential)& would need to vacate for 1 month a year. I know the boat could be moored there permanently if I'm not living on it. But if I was to travel each weekend, so Friday night after work, chug up the river a bit perhaps travel Saturday, & return to the Marin Sunday night. Also go off on a trip when me & the GF get a week or 2 together... hopefully adding up to 1 month away from the marina.

 

The Marina itself I think is run by EA, but I cannot seem to provoke a response from them in any way.

 

I personally would be happy to moor for 2 weeks in 1 place (central to work) then 2 weeks time move to point B 6 miles away, then 2 weeks later move to point C 6 miles in the other direction, then 2 weeks later back to the original point A. But obviously some peeps wouldnt like this & would see it as not CCing & also trying shirk paying my way.

 

I dont particularly want a residential mooring, but I do want secure mooring for while I'm at work away from the boat, hencce thinking of getting a permanent mooring at the new Marina.

 

I just wondered if those of you who do live on a boat think this is even doable?

Don't underestimate the problems with moving every 2 weeks. If you are on the boat all the time you will need to fill with water and empty your loo and the facilities may not be in convenient places. You have also to do your washing and shopping. You could find your whole weekend is taken up with moving and chores. Getting a mooring is much more sensible.

Sue

[jonk]

1st post for me. I'm thinking of getting a narrowboat to live on. Getting a residential mooring seems to be a hassle. There is only 1 place suitable for me, & that is in a new marina close to where I work, but the office isnt open yet (as it's not built). I went on a guided tour of the place, but their leaflet giving website address, e-mail & telephone contacts was no good.

 

At the moment they remain uncontactable, so I dont even know if they have any residential berths left (they have 6 residential in total of which I think 3 are definately gone)& 80 moorings in total.

 

Anyway I was wondering if I would be allowed to get a permanent mooring, as well as travel.

A friend used to live on a caravan park. For 1 month a year he had to leave as it wasnt residential, so he would stay with me for that 1 month. then he would be back in his caravan.

 

Presumably the same thing applies to the permanent mooring, in that I cant live there due to planning permission (it not being residential)& would need to vacate for 1 month a year. I know the boat could be moored there permanently if I'm not living on it. But if I was to travel each weekend, so Friday night after work, chug up the river a bit perhaps travel Saturday, & return to the Marin Sunday night. Also go off on a trip when me & the GF get a week or 2 together... hopefully adding up to 1 month away from the marina.

 

The Marina itself I think is run by EA, but I cannot seem to provoke a response from them in any way.

 

I personally would be happy to moor for 2 weeks in 1 place (central to work) then 2 weeks time move to point B 6 miles away, then 2 weeks later move to point C 6 miles in the other direction, then 2 weeks later back to the original point A. But obviously some peeps wouldnt like this & would see it as not CCing & also trying shirk paying my way.

 

I dont particularly want a residential mooring, but I do want secure mooring for while I'm at work away from the boat, hencce thinking of getting a permanent mooring at the new Marina.

 

I just wondered if those of you who do live on a boat think this is even doable?

 

Read posts 20 and 40 to see what is legal/doable.

 

John

[Ssscrudddy]

Thanks for that. I just wish the EA would actually answer me instead of keep sending me auto replies & phone numbers that say "This line is now closed", or giving me dead links.

 

The marina I wan to get a spot in is gradually filling up with more & more boats, the office isnt open as they havent finished building it yet, & I havent managed to speak to a single boater (is that the correct term?) who has actually got a boat there.

[Proud Salopian]

I personally would be happy to moor for 2 weeks in 1 place (central to work) then 2 weeks time move to point B 6 miles away, then 2 weeks later move to point C 6 miles in the other direction, then 2 weeks later back to the original point A. But obviously some peeps wouldnt like this & would see it as not CCing & also trying shirk paying my way.

 

What you describe is not CCing and BW (or whatever they'll be called in a few months' time!) may come after you. If you have the time, have a search for threads in this forum (both the Living Afloat and General sections) regarding CCing, especially from 2011 as there have been some developments.

 

I plan to be a CCer (when I have my boat!) but I will be a genuine CCer. The alternative is to have your own leisure mooring, somewhere on the network, which you may never actually visit! Just buy a cheap mooring somewhere and then do what you plan (the strict CCing rules don't apply to someone with a registered mooring). However I suspect that the rules/costs may change in the coming years, as the new BW entity works out how to balance the books! New types of licences covering liveaboards, purely leisure users, genuine CCers, etc..?

Edited September 6, 2011 by Proud Salopian

[Humphrey]

Barton Marina, nr Burton on Trent have residentials, about £250 a month incl. electric and water

 

 

 

Hi folks

We are thinking of selling up and going liveaboard in a couple of years time. Ideally we would like to get a residential mooring but if that is not possible (as we know how difficult these are to find) what exactly are our options? We don't much fancy CCing as our older two children will either be at work or college at the time.

What do others do?

[Ssscrudddy]

...as our older two children will either be at work or college at the time.

What do others do?

 

FCUK them... I guess I cant say that... but seriously at work & at college, means they are old enough. I love my kids but they can find their own life. My parents kicked me out when I was 17 (cuz I got expelled from boarding school) & it never did me any harm. I have been a high flyer at Prada, a traffic warden, & on the dole, & a world tour on a motorbike (lasted 1 year & which means Scotland, France, & 2 weeks in the USA. had to ring my dad to borrow air fare home when I ran out of money!)

[Ssscrudddy]

Well the good news is, the EA got in touch with me, it seems 1 of my messages made it through to the right person. They had 1 resi mooring left. I get the impression I have booked it, will have to wait for the paperwork to arrive, & by charging for my zero length boat seeing as I dont have 1 yet, it has only cost me £6.30 until end of March, or until I get a boat.

But the better news is, for their permanent moorings, they only require you to be away for 1 month a year, & that is done cumulatively, in other words I can go off Friday & Saturday nights & that counts towards my time away...

 

So I'm now pulling out all the stops to actually get a boat.

 

The tenant is in for a shock when an eviction letter drops through her door... serves her right for not paying her rent

[jonk]

Well the good news is, the EA got in touch with me, it seems 1 of my messages made it through to the right person. They had 1 resi mooring left. I get the impression I have booked it, will have to wait for the paperwork to arrive, & by charging for my zero length boat seeing as I dont have 1 yet, it has only cost me £6.30 until end of March, or until I get a boat.

But the better news is, for their permanent moorings, they only require you to be away for 1 month a year, & that is done cumulatively, in other words I can go off Friday & Saturday nights & that counts towards my time away...

 

So I'm now pulling out all the stops to actually get a boat.

 

The tenant is in for a shock when an eviction letter drops through her door... serves her right for not paying her rent

 

If it is a residential mooring why do you have to be away at all? Is that a general condition of residential moorings? Seems like a contradiction to me!

 

John

[Ssscrudddy]

If it is a residential mooring why do you have to be away at all? Is that a general condition of residential moorings? Seems like a contradiction to me!

 

John

I think you are misunderstanding. The residential mooring doesnt require you to be away, but the permanent mooring does require you to be away... 2 different moorings.