Slooowww doooowneeee

[alan_fincher]

The dfference in distance travelled in a day between the tortoise and the Hare is very similar,the differance being The Hare,many weed box visits and burn't a third more fuel.The Tortoise,wallet fuller,and nicer hands. bizzard

I have never seen a jot of evidence to support your continuous assertion that travelling faster means the prop is more likely to get fouled.

 

I'm guessing we are not going to get counted with the slow ones, but weed-hatch visits are a considerable rarity for us.

 

On the rare occasions we do pick something up, it is usually when running in reverse gear, not ahead.

[AlanH]

Yes phylis, it's completely my fault for not mounting my cooker on a gyroscope stabilised platform. Well done, you got me.

 

 

 

Where did I say regularly?

 

You implied it with your comment about mooring amongst six hire bases.

[Naughty Cal]

By everyone, you mean 'one or two other people including yourself'.

 

HTH

 

No. Note, that you are the only person on this topic claiming to have had problems with flying kettles and crockery. No one else has ever experienced this and in some cases during quite long boating careers. Does that not tell you anything?

[Maffi]

You seem to have made a couple of friends with your reply.

 

First of all let me say I wouldn't call myself a speeder. But for me the pleasure I get from the canal is the constant travelling on the water and not sitting tied up day after day. But each to there own. I get frustrated and sometimes annoyed when I spend most of my time on tick over (I'm not saying speeding is correct, I too judge my speed by the wash count, not to create one). And folk who moor for weeks on end get fed up with boats passing to fast. Up to now I have never had a person tell me to slow down so I can only assume my speed when passing a moored boat is okay but it is so frustrating and sometime sole destroying when you come up against lines of moored boats as far as the eye can see and your behind a boat that is on tick over that is so slow that you are constantly using reverse, then it's my pleasure of the canals that has to suffer.

 

You say if some people cannot show proper respect for the waterways and its environment you should get a house. (True). Didn't we build the canals to travel on constantly and not to moor up for 48 weeks of the year? So arent these people showing little respect for the canals and its users?

 

I'm not having a pop, and yes speeding is wrong. But in my opinion leaving a boat tied up for weeks on end is just as bad if not shameful.

 

Terence

 

My reply garners LOTS of friends not a couple.

 

Our canal system is not the system it was. It is old, it is tired. It needs lots of TLC. We no longer rely on it to fuel the country's economy. It is a place where people go to relax, to get away from the hustle and bustle of life, to recharge their batteries.

 

My boat travels on tick-over very slowly and yet I have still been asked to slow down so I know people say SLOW DOWN just because they can.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Maffi

[Barry]

Your approach is basically well founded, and the natural progression from the "tickover" rule of thumb, for those who are more experienced, is to actually read the effect that you are having, in order to arrive at the optimal speed where you cause no more effect than passing at tickover, but don't slow down nearly as much, and benefit from the boat handling better.

 

The one problem that you do have is that the thing that you are reading isn't the thing that you should be reading.

 

Wash is what determines the effect that you will have on bank erosion, because wash creates a continuous rolling scour that removes bank material. The relatively short wavelength of a typical wash will not, however, have very much effect on moored boats at all.

 

The water movement that causes moored boats to move is the far longer wavelength water level depression that runs ahead of and alongside the moving boat.

 

As the prop moves water from ahead of the boat. the water level falls, and increases behind the moving boat. It is this that moves boats.

 

So, don't look behind at your wash. Look forwards to the bank at about midships. Look how high above the water level the bank is wet, and set your speed to minimise this.

 

So it's the first lump (bow wave) and the hole in the water behind it that moves moored boats. Ok I think I kind of knew that but didn't include it in my estimation of speed because, as you say, I was focused on judging speed by the wash behind me. I reckon a small wake ripple behind will equate to a small bow wave. I will, out of interest, pay much more attention to my bow wave/hole behind it and see what the relationship is between it and my wake.

 

Interestingly I once boated with someone who did not drop the revs until the bow was almost at the moored boat. By my reckoning the only benefit to the moored boater was that they would hear the drop in revs but the speed was still high as the boat was still slowing as he went past. He never got shouted at though

[deletedaccount]

No. Note, that you are the only person on this topic claiming to have had problems with flying kettles and crockery. No one else has ever experienced this and in some cases during quite long boating careers. Does that not tell you anything?

 

I think frigatecaptain could tell you a thing or two about speeding hireboats on the K&A.

 

This thread seems to have degenerated into few opinionated posters with no experience of mooring where I moor trying to tell me it's my fault speeding boats cause things to fall of my sideboards and cooker.

 

They way my boat's been hit in the past would have sunk your little tub, but I guess that would be your fault for not re-enforcing your sides with steel.

Edited July 28, 2011 by deletedaccount

[Evo]

Not getting into this argument, if the bloke said his kettle came off the stove - it came off the stove.

The mother-in-law told us some stuff about when they lived and cruised the boat through the summer months, old Vic was constantly wacking banks, bridges, and tunnels, and emptying the fridge all over the floor. The best he did though was hit something so hard that the oven door flew open and a whole caserole went everywhere. At this point the mother-in-law determined there was something wrong and got him analysed. He had the beginnings of Dementia.

[deletedaccount]

Not getting into this argument, if the bloke said his kettle came off the stove - it came off the stove.

 

Thank you. I've no idea why she thinks I'm inventing it

Edited July 28, 2011 by deletedaccount

[carlt]

Should I boat with regard to your experience or mine?

I have never had a (major) spill and, since switching to 3 foot marquee pegs and a sledgehammer, have never been set adrift.

 

I have, however, retied countless boats that have been set adrift, by speeding boaters, and seen things fall off shelves in friends' boats (usually because they are on bobby little short boats or are not tied up properly).

 

I slow down because some people don't tie their boats properly, others prefer me to pass their boats slowly and a small minority will shout regardless of the speed I'm doing but I know their accusations are groundless.

 

I also slow down because it does no harm to.

 

The one thing that annoys me, about speeding boaters, apart from bank erosion, is when they pass me at full tilt and then refuse to let me pass them, when I catch up, halfway up the next flight of locks.

[Naughty Cal]

I think frigatecaptain could tell you a thing or two about speeding hireboats on the K&A.

 

This thread seems to have degenerated into few opinionated posters with no experience of mooring where I moor trying to tell me it's my fault speeding boats cause things to fall of my sideboards and cooker.

 

They way my boat's been hit in the past would have sunk your little tub, but I guess that would be your fault for not re-enforcing your sides with steel.

 

Why has this suddenly become the fault of hire boaters?

 

And what on earth has your boat being hit got to do with speeding boaters passing moored boats?

 

And what has my boat being GRP got to do with passing moored boats?

[bizzard]

Water is what floats my boat and I have learnt that water moves, it is not a static body. Placing an item in this non static environment will also result in the item moving. If you dont like that movement remove your item from a fluid environment and put it in a static environment, end of problem.

 

 

 

You really are a very strange individual

If you say so. I don't get many replies when i've hit the nail on the head.A lot of of folk in denial i fear. But by-pass my posts, and just drone on with with their drivel,bizzard

[Naughty Cal]

Thank you. I've no idea why she thinks I'm inventing it

 

Beacuse it is so highly unlikely to happen yet you claim it happens on a regular basis.

 

Other memebers on shallow narrow ditches frequented by hire boats have also concluded that it is highly unlikely to happen. Something doent add up now does it?

[blackrose]

And you have clearly proved my point.

 

Terence

 

Your point being that we should all be moving all the time presumably?

[deletedaccount]

Yes phylis, I'm making it up. It couldn't possibly be that you're wrong.

[Maffi]

How odd? I've been living aboard for nearly 10 years and I can't recall a single item ever falling from a shelf, table or cooker because of a passing boat.

 

And I've been living on the Thames for the past year where boats are allowed to go at 8kph and regularly speed past faster.

 

The rules are different on the Thames.

[alan_fincher]

The Oxford is no more shallow or narrow than the Macc and I repeat - nothing like that has ever happened to us. Never had a pin pulled out. Never had anything fall off the shelves/cooker etc. So my experience is different to yours and Deleted Accounts. Should I boat with regard to your experience or mine?

Seconded !

 

The Oxford is indeed shallow in parts. I would say more so at the Southern end, or so it seems, though everbody's perception seems to be different.

 

However many narrow canals are not radically different, and I really can't imagine regular crockery smashing incidents on any of them. Unless people have some very poorly designed shelves or cupboards, the amount of rocking and tilt necessary to empty cupboards must surely be considerable.

 

I'm not doubting that some of the stories on here are genuine, but I can't see how if it's a regular occurrence, and we are visiting the same canals, nothing similar ever seems to happen to us.

 

And yes, of course we moor up in the proximity of hire bases, and, of course we moor up at some of the popular locations on the narrow canals, so we should have been on occasions as well placed to experience the carnage as anybody else.

 

Please let's not get into a the hire boater thing again. Hire boaters often don't have the experience, and sometimes not adequate instruction. There are far too many people who have owned their own boats for years, who are far better placed to understand appropriate speeds for different situations, and many regularly seem to be little different from the much vilified hire boaters - many are significantly worse. Most hire boaters are happy to take constructive advice, at least - far less private boaters would be!

[blackrose]

And the Thames is really wide and really deep, too. Completely different. Plenty of boaters tank it on the Thames but you don't really notice the wash.

 

Believe me, you do notice the wash when the big cruisers fly past. Some of these boats have 300hp engines. I regularly have wash a foot high hitting my boat. I thought the wash from one boat was going to come over my open side hatch once (of course it didn't). Still, nothing flew off my cooker.

Edited July 28, 2011 by blackrose

[Maffi]

No one was avoiding any point. I have made my views very clear that the wash/wake made by pleasure boats really in the scheme of things is quite insignificant.

 

Do you ever venture onto a narrow canal? Bring your boat up on the Oxford and I will show you what the problems are.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Maffi

[Terence]

I think I must have missed your point, Terence, if Blackrose has proved it.

 

Surely you're not saying that the canals should be the preserve of those who earn a living from them, or use them in the way that they were used, before being rescued by the leisure industry?

 

Also, with the introduction of ParcelForce and DHL, surely delivering your tinware by boat is a frippery amounting to a holiday?

 

You earn your living by painting canalware, not by canal freight. Transporting your product by boat is a hobby, not a necessity.

 

Good morning Carl,

 

In a previous comment by me on this post, I said 48 weeks (which is less than 365 days) of the year. This was because like many canal boat owners my wife and I work (and own a house). I also said my pleasure on the canal is the constant travelling (mooring at night to sleep). So someone who moors their boat for 365 days (which it seems on occasions Mr Blackrose does) is spoiling my trip, as I have to tick over past him and the fifty other boats after him. But what I find strange is if these people are never on the boat how do they know what speed someone went past at.

 

As for delivering my tin ware by boat being a frippery amounting to a holiday? Quite possible. But surely once I have loaded all my wares onto the boat and set off doesn't it now become freight? The Holiday being a bonus. For me to deliver by boat I need the help of everyone on the canal, from BW to boat owners and boat hirers.

 

When we see traditional boats in the shows don't we admire and comment on how wonderful it is to see these crafts back on the canals (or some of us do). I get similar comments with what I am trying to do. Many folk have loved it when I turn up with their orders by boat. But yes I still have to get home for my work side (mine and my wife’s).

 

As I said on a previous comment I don't speed but I do use commonsense. When my boat is tied up at the back of our house it is I hope safe and secure. So a boat passing slightly faster than norm shouldn't bother it.

 

That's what I like about you, you clearly don't sit on the fence. I hope you come visit us in Reading via the Thames.

 

Terence

[Naughty Cal]

Yes phylis, I'm making it up. It couldn't possibly be that you're wrong.

 

I am intrigued what it was that passed you and created this tsunami capable of rocking a narrowboat so violently that the kettle of boiling water launched itself from the hob and straight into the vicinity of a poor innocent young boy. You must have some mighty shipping on the K&A. These cant manage that it:

 

 

 

 

What do you have on the K&A that can?

[deletedaccount]

Do you ever venture onto a narrow canal? Bring your boat up on the Oxford and I will show you what the problems are.

 

Are you suggesting Phylis actually finds out about something before proclaiming herself an expert? Heaven forbid!

[Guest]

We once had stuff come off the shelves, nothing major just our Nicholson's guides that fell over and off the shelf - but the boat that caused it was not just speeding they actually hit us quite hard.

 

We have also had our pins pulled out - but that was as much to do with the very poor condition/loose of the ground I'd knocked them into and a poor choice of mooring spot as much as anything else...

[deletedaccount]

What do you have on the K&A that can?

 

Yes, those are completely equivalent waterways, with one being massively wide and deep and the other not. Keep on pounding though, I imagine I'll get bored of posting before you do.

[Naughty Cal]

Do you ever venture onto a narrow canal? Bring your boat up on the Oxford and I will show you what the problems are.

 

No i dont venture onto narrow canals for a couple of very good reasons. 1, they are too narrow for my boat and 2, they are full of moaning narrowboatists.

 

We moor on the Fossditch, design depth of 4ft, we have a draft of 3ft, there are very few places we can just pull in and moor up other than designated visitor moorings where we can squeeze in. The boats that frequent this section of canal range from little GRP cruisers, narrowboats, dutch barges, ex fishing vessels, sports boats and massive flybridge cruisers with twin 600 hp engines. Not what the original desinger intended im sure. Yes it may not be the shallowest of waterways but it has some bloody big boats using it.

 

You think you get bounced around from the wash of a narrowboat doing 3mph with a 35 hp engine? Try the wash from 1200hp doing 5mph in a restricted channel that would get you whinging and whining

 

Are you suggesting Phylis actually finds out about something before proclaiming herself an expert? Heaven forbid!

 

So you are still claiming that depsite the evidence of many others your shelves and hob emptying themselves on a regular basis is th fault of passing boats?

 

Yes, those are completely equivalent waterways, with one being massively wide and deep and the other not. Keep on pounding though, I imagine I'll get bored of posting before you do.

 

So what are these super ships you get on the K&A that cause this severe rocking? You still have not answered this.

[DeanS]

wow...never knew the subject was this interactive..LOL.

 

To clarify why I posted the post in the first place.

 

This guy comes along...slows down a few feet behind me (thanks).

Then...he opens up throttle while his bow hasn't even passed my bow. (no thanks)

Although he had loads of width on the canal, he decided to come so close we could almost touch him.

Then, a few feet past my boat, he slows down again, so his wife could take a photo.

 

THAT'S what made me mad. I dont care about every boat, and every instance. It was THAT instance, that made me feel it was something to post about.