Why do GRP cruisers.......

[Lady Muck]

It's so wide and deep near the marina I'm surprised anyone is having problems. Are you using springs?

[alan_fincher]

Those aren't continuous moorers, they are stationary boats on the system. Speeding past them causes damage to the canal infrastructure, often leaves boats drifting loose on the cut for others to deal with, and is why large parts of the South Oxford have no bank between cut and towpath to tie up to any more, because the bank gives way if the pin does not..

 

It'd be a lot slower for you if every boat was on the move from dawn until dusk; a lot harder to make the same distances in a day if you were only allowed to tie up in a marina; and too expensive a system to exist solely for a handful of speed freaks who made the wrong choice of hobby to have to themselves.

 

Plan your journeys better. It's by far the most palatable alternative.

 

Fine to tell us about the Southern Oxford, but not really relevant here, is it ? Hhow much knowledge do you actually have of the Lee ?

 

These are radically different waterways.....

 

For much of the Lee, (not all!), a narrow boat can pass, (at a considerable distance away usually, because it is often very wide!), moored boats at the full legal speed, without complaint.

 

It is doubtful that much damage gets caused to the river infrastructure even at 4 mph, and the banks are seldom "Oxford like!"

 

I'm not condoning anybody exceeding the speed limit, but to suggest that anything approaching the same logic should apply on the Lee as the Southern Oxford is so patently ridiculous to make any comparison pointless.

 

It's so wide and deep near the marina I'm surprised anyone is having problems. Are you using springs?

You see! - Even a Lee resident agrees with me!

[ymu]

I wasn't aware that this thread was only about the L&S. It appeared to me to be primarily about GRPs and speeding.

[PhilR]

Have a look and see if you can see how many engines they have. A lot of cruisers have outdrives so you can see just by looking at the transom. Cruisers with two engines can find it difficult to go slow. I have friends with a 24 footer but it has twin outdrives. their slowest speed, without dropping into neutral, is 4mph. The trouble with outdrives, having no rudder, is that as soon as the prop stops spinning they lose all steerage. Cruisers with one outdrive do better of course.

 

Rudders can be fitted cheaply and easily to outdrives and outboard motors.

 

 

[Kessy]

Thanks for all the replies and it appears i am not being over vigilant as this is happening in other locations as well.

 

We get a variety of Cruisers travelling past, single and double engined and i will take note of which type causes the most wash.

 

I tend to notice the main culprits being the newer boats for some reason?

[Lady Muck]

You see! - Even a Lee resident agrees with me!

 

The navigation channel is so deep last time a boat sank I could only see the top two inches of the chimbley. Even though it's shallow water by my boat (and narrower than the pound where the OP moors), I never notice wash, I barely even notice when a canoe crashes into our side and that happens often, because the canoe centre is next door to us.

 

I'll ask again, is the OP using springs? If not, you ought to try.

[alan_fincher]

Thanks for all the replies and it appears i am not being over vigilant as this is happening in other locations as well.

 

We get a variety of Cruisers travelling past, single and double engined and i will take note of which type causes the most wash.

 

I tend to notice the main culprits being the newer boats for some reason?

Sorry, but I'll say it again.....

 

The fact some that people pass moored boats on narrow/shallow canals too fast, has little to do with your circumstances on the Lee. Others like a regular moan on this topic, but the waterway you are moored on is probably outside their experience, and nothing like those they refer to.

 

The Lee is a wide, deep waterway, until you reach the upper reaches, and boats have to be really legging it to be causing moored boats much inconvenience at a location like yours, (provided you are well tied up!).

 

On my own experience of the Lee, I really can't accept that "90% of" GRP boats are travelling at an excessive speed at a location like yours - we have shared locks with GRP boats up there, and largely kept up with them with a 50 foot narrow boat, with no complaint from those we are passing.

 

What exactly are these boats doing to your moored boat, and, as Lady Muck has asked, how are you tied up please? Something just doesn't compute here!

 

What speed do you estimate the worst offenders to be travelling at ?

 

I wasn't aware that this thread was only about the L&S. It appeared to me to be primarily about GRPs and speeding.

Nor have I mentioned the Stort, which is a very different bit of waterway to that being talked about by the OP.

 

If you had boated on them you might realise that a speed acceptable on one might not be on the other!

 

I don't think the OP has actually yet established the boats are actually "speeding", more that they don't appreciate their wash, but we have yet to learn the effects of said wash, or how well secured their boat is.

 

Being particularly pedantic, the vast majority of GRP boats on the stretch being described are small electrically powered day boats, incapable of a speed that washes anything, and presenting far more of a danger by weaving a random course in front of people using the river properly. I really cannot recall many big two engined river craft hammering it up there at all. Most of the "plastic" is fairly modest compared to other river navigations Freemans, Normans that kind of thing - not Phylis!

[magpie patrick]

Alan, I'm with you, and as the owner of a GRP I am singularly pissed off by some of the comments here. so let me lay down a few markers

 

Almost any boat capable of great speed (e.g. twin engine flybridge) won't fit under the bridges on the Lee, okay, it is possible to fit a boat like Juno with a 40hp outboard, but few do it

 

My original comments were based on narrow boat speeds, we struggle if following an overly considerate narrow boat because I have to drop Juno out of gear at the sort of speed where a narrowboat is on tickover

 

You can fit an outboard with a rudder, but it makes it more difficult to clear the prop (an exercise that generally involves tilting the outboard and leaning from the bank anyway) and if certain narrow boat owners are going to make sweeping generalisations then so am I. Every last thing we have ever taken off Juno's prop is empty coal bags, and while not all narrow boats use them, they come off narrow boats. If you want me to have a rudder, would those of you with coal bags take more care not to let them end up in the cut

 

The Lee is deep and wide, as was the G and S where we moored Ripple, even large motor cruisers could go past at 6mph (the speed limit there) without creating significant movement if Ripple was tied up properly

 

Anyone who's boat gets moved by canoes must have used rubber bands to moor with. Yes, you get a slapping noise against the hull, but then you get that with a strong cross wind in Bristol Floating harbour

 

If you want absolute stability and no noise from waves, get a caravan or a house

 

This is not to say that some boats don't go to fast past moored boats, or that narrow canals, designed for horse drawn barges, don't suffer (they do, in a way the Lee and the Gloucester and Sharpness don't). It is to say that some people see a yoghurt pot like mine cruising down the canal and start searching for a complaint against it.

[Barry]

PhilR said

Rudders can be fitted cheaply and easily to outdrives and outboard motors

 

Yep - I've bought one called a 'Course Keeper'. It's waiting to go on as soon as my outdrive is rebuilt. I didn't think it was particularly cheap though at 163 quid.

 

I think that the main cause of speeding is not particularly the technical aspect but one of attitude.

[Naughty Cal]

PhilR said

 

 

Yep - I've bought one called a 'Course Keeper'. It's waiting to go on as soon as my outdrive is rebuilt. I didn't think it was particularly cheap though at 163 quid.

 

I think that the main cause of speeding is not particularly the technical aspect but one of attitude.

 

You will remove it very quickly after fitting it. They constantly get clogged up with crap from the canal.

 

We have just come to terms with the fact that NC isnt the greatest at steering at low speeds. It isnt desiged for it. We have just had a great week in Wells and if anyone on hear thinks that boats go too fast past moored craft on rivers/canals they ought to go and moor there for a few days. The fishing boats there have two speeds, stop and go and they go as soon as the tide is suitable day or night. The wash they create is substantial and they dont slow down to pass the moorings. You have to tie up properly to stop your boat rattling the next.

 

Just get on with your own life and stop moaning at every man and their bloody dog.

[Phoenix_V]

We moor on the Lee and we get more movement from the rowing boats (racing not hire) than we do from any passing boat. As said it is deep and there should be no problems with boats traveling at normal speeds. Try the Thames, say at Windsor, there you really will move about, but still no great problem as it is deep.

 

Shallow canal are another thing entirely

[Kessy]

Hmmm i appear to have kicked open a Hornets nest with this thread.

 

Ok the easy thing for me to do is arm myself with the Camcorder this coming weekend as long as the weather is decent then i will have the usual culprits

going past.

Maybe if i catch everything on video, my boat mooring ties etc then film certain craft going past it may make it much clearer.

 

There are 4 boats in particular who just seem to have no regard whatsoever to what is happening around them...

 

If the weekend is fine i will then post the video to here and people can form their own opinions :-)

[magpie patrick]

Hmmm i appear to have kicked open a Hornets nest with this thread.

 

Ok the easy thing for me to do is arm myself with the Camcorder this coming weekend as long as the weather is decent then i will have the usual culprits

going past.

Maybe if i catch everything on video, my boat mooring ties etc then film certain craft going past it may make it much clearer.

 

There are 4 boats in particular who just seem to have no regard whatsoever to what is happening around them...

 

If the weekend is fine i will then post the video to here and people can form their own opinions :-)

 

Don't take it to heart, there are several hornets nests on this forum

 

I'm not accusing you of it, we were clearly at crossed purposes with me talking about struggling to do one mile an hour because it is slow and you complaining about speeds way in excess of what I do in our yoghurt pot. There is, among some narrow boaters, an assumption that a GRP cruiser is in the hands of a novice or worse, an idiot. By way of example at Bradford Lock last year we were setting off into the lock when a snooty woman on a narrow boat told us there were already two boats in the lock and we couldn't go in. This ignored the fact that 1) we were at the front of the queue and had asked the steel boats to go in first and 2) one of them was only 30 feet long and with our 23 feet we would fit behind it. We were GRP so, in her view, didn't know what we were doing

[Kessy]

Don't take it to heart, there are several hornets nests on this forum

 

I'm not accusing you of it, we were clearly at crossed purposes with me talking about struggling to do one mile an hour because it is slow and you complaining about speeds way in excess of what I do in our yoghurt pot. There is, among some narrow boaters, an assumption that a GRP cruiser is in the hands of a novice or worse, an idiot. By way of example at Bradford Lock last year we were setting off into the lock when a snooty woman on a narrow boat told us there were already two boats in the lock and we couldn't go in. This ignored the fact that 1) we were at the front of the queue and had asked the steel boats to go in first and 2) one of them was only 30 feet long and with our 23 feet we would fit behind it. We were GRP so, in her view, didn't know what we were doing

 

Thanks for the kind reply,

 

Maybe you just hit the nail on the head with the snooty woman thing !

Because of my location and the worst offenders being the new boats i am of the opinion that it is excactly the ' snooty ' type that are causing the problem.

I have also found that it can be hard work to even get a wave of the hand and a smile from some people....as though you are below them, if you know what i mean?

 

I must make it clear that the older cruisers very, very rarely cause any kind of over the top wash and are a much friendlier bunch for sure.

 

I certainly didn't mean to offend any Cruiser owners with this topic and apologise if it appeared this way.

 

Regards,

 

Kessy.

[ymu]

We hardly ever see GRPs in use. I can't recall noticing one causing us issues, but we rarely know who set us adrift, or who loosened the pins/started pulling the bank away.

 

Small boats, ie rowers, canoeists,, seem to cause a bit of slapping around against the bank if the ropes are loose (we don't tie up tight on the Oxford because it's fed by rivers and levels change a lot, so it's both a losing battle and dangerous to do so), but we haven't experienced any serious rowers yet. Big boats send you lurching forward, and then back, with a crash into the bank along the way.

 

It's the strong swells from big bow waves that pull our pins out or pull the bank away. How much difference does the smaller tonnage of a GRP make to their ability to set boats adrift and damage piling?

[Barry]

 

 

Just get on with your own life and stop moaning at every man and their bloody dog.

 

Phylis I'm hoping that that is not aimed directly at me

[Guest]

Phylis I'm hoping that that is not aimed directly at me

 

I could read like that but I'm pretty sure I don't think it was Bazza - to the OP I think...

[RLWP]

I could read like that but I'm pretty sure I don't think it was Bazza - to the OP I think...

 

I concur

 

Richard

[fuzzyduck]

Why do 90% of people in Cruisers go so bloody quick past moored boats ! ?

 

Well, in my case it's because i get bored by rows and rows of narrowboats, and like to get back to the prettier bits as quickly as possible.

 

[alan_fincher]

Why do 90% of people in Cruisers go so bloody quick past moored boats ! ?

 

There are 4 boats in particular who just seem to have no regard whatsoever to what is happening around them...

 

I must make it clear that the older cruisers very, very rarely cause any kind of over the top wash and are a much friendlier bunch for sure.

 

So to be clear just how many people in cruisers are you complaining about.....

 

Is it now just mainly "4 boats in particular", and you are now saying there is a large number that "very, very rarely cause any kind of over the top wash".

 

Or is it the "90% of people in Cruisers who go so bloody quick past moored boats", that you started off with ?

 

Methinks you rather exaggerated in the first place, and have now watered your fairly broad brush complaints against the vast majority of cruiser owners fairly dramatically, (.....haven't you ? )

Edited June 6, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Barry]

Phylis I'm hoping that that is not aimed directly at me

 

 

I could read like that but I'm pretty sure I don't think it was Bazza - to the OP I think...

 

 

I concur

 

Richard

 

Yes I was hoping that too - thanks for the reassurance you boys

[sebrof]

 

.....we struggle if following an overly considerate narrow boat because I have to drop Juno out of gear at the sort of speed where a narrowboat is on tickover

 

You clearly have a boat that is not suited to the waterways you use it on.

 

Your argument is rather like saying that you shouldn't be obliged to observe the 30 mph speed limit because your Ferrari can't go that slowly.

 

I would suggest that you need either to modify your boat or to take it somewhere more appropriate.

 

[ymu]

You clearly have a boat that is not suited to the waterways you use it on.

 

Your argument is rather like saying that you shouldn't be obliged to observe the 30 mph speed limit because your Ferrari can't go that slowly.

 

I would suggest that you need either to modify your boat or to take it somewhere more appropriate.

 

And machinery never needs to be moved by roads not suited to their use, right?

 

Why do short moorings exist on such waterways if it is unreasonable to moor a speedier small boat on them?

 

Do you even know anything about Juno's mooring?

 

I know you are trying really hard here, but try harder, yeah?

 

[sebrof]

And machinery never needs to be moved by roads not suited to their use, right?

 

No idea how this is relevant to the fact that Juno is apparently unable to go slowly, which is a problem in places where it is necessary to go slowly.

 

Why do short moorings exist on such waterways if it is unreasonable to moor a speedier small boat on them?

 

A. Not all short boats are fast, and

B. Even speedy boats should be able to go slowly.

 

Do you even know anything about Juno's mooring?

 

No, and it has no bearing on my post.

 

I know you are trying really hard here, but try harder, yeah?

 

Yes, Miss Brodie. Quite a feisty lass, aren't you?

Edited June 6, 2011 by sebrof

[ymu]

Ooh, feisty!

 

Still flailing away to little effect then?

 

Go on, try really hard. You can if you put your mind to it.