Overstaying

[alan_fincher]

So if you don't have problem with these people, Alan, why are you talking up the witch burning?

Where is is you believe I'm doing that ?

[Chris Pink]

I was trying to be more subtle than that, but you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Subtle? Yes, I have been pursuing that quality for some time with little success.

 

 

So we must assume alarm or distress, unless there is evidence to the contrary?

I may object to my photograph being taken, but that does not mean that every snapper along the cut is guilty of harrassment. Is any person under the age of 20 or so on the towpath is guilty of harrassment, given the number of posts on various fora on "youth problems", "is it safe to moor here?" etc, given that most of the posters are "reasonable persons"?

 

Iain

edited for speelin

 

No, this harassment is specific to certain individuals who can be identified from the information Dave has given.

 

For instance, if someone came and stood outside your house every day noting certain information and then published that information in such a way as to identify you, you would consider it harassment (well I certainly would) how is this different to that?

 

His refusal to explain the motives behind this vendetta (in two separate posts) is to me prima facie evidence that this is a targeted campaign against one or more individuals

 

Unless the individuals participate on this forum and agree to Dave's actions. I ask that the moderators take down this topic.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Chris Pink

[gaggle]

If i was on one of the target boats i would be alarmed at maisie,s behaviour , its not normal.

I would take steps to halt his behaviour which could be more than alarming to others , would the face of maisie staring into a window of a boat on a lonely towpath cause distress to any normal person , his behaviour is beyond erratic and anti social ,its a bit dark.

[Bagpuss]

I don't usually agree with you Gaggle but I do here. If a strange man without a BW uniform was stood outside my boat taking details, I would be worried. If he kept coming back I would be scared, it would appear to be the actions of a stalker.

 

By the way Dave, I'm not saying you are a stalker, just that your behaviour could be seen in that light.

 

B

 

Edited for spelling

Edited February 9, 2011 by Bagpuss

[Chris Pink]

If i was on one of the target boats i would be alarmed at maisie,s behaviour , its not normal.

I would take steps to halt his behaviour which could be more than alarming to others , would the face of maisie staring into a window of a boat on a lonely towpath cause distress to any normal person , his behaviour is beyond erratic and anti social ,its a bit dark.

 

It would be good if someone in the area let them know what was going on, and that they were being discussed on a national forum for dubious and unstated reasons.

 

They might considered this to be harassment and intimidation.

[GUMPY]

I'm a Continuous Cruiser and my licence number is CE-001-019-01. Which part of this means no home mooring?

 

Did you have a mooring when you got your licence and did you declare that you were CC?

[O'Mali]

I don't usually agree with you Gaggle but I do here. If a strange man without a BW uniform was stood outside my boat taking details, I would be worried. If he kept coming back I would be scared, it would appear to be the actions of a stalker.

By the way Dave, I'm not saying you are a stalker, just that your behaviour could be seen in that light.

 

B

 

Edited for spelling

I don’t think David is that brave (and has no dental insurance). If he was he would knock and ask what they are playing at and explain the issue he has with it.

 

No doubt, this will be a sneaky walk by with the dog (on a lead of course) without any lingering and what ever details get missed on the first pass will be taken on the way back.

 

No doubt if anyone appears, they will be greeted with a friendly “hello”.

 

I agree with Chris on this….”It would be good if someone in the area let them know what was going on, and that they were being discussed on a national forum for dubious and unstated reasons.”

[Sir Nibble]

Stop it Dave, there is clearly a vested interest in preventing you backing up previous claims with evidence in case your claims are supported by the wrong kind of evidence leading to the wrong kind of conclusion. The last thing we need in this debate is for anything that does not support the "right" side to be demonstrably true.

[mayalld]

 

 

No, this harassment is specific to certain individuals who can be identified from the information Dave has given.

 

For instance, if someone came and stood outside your house every day noting certain information and then published that information in such a way as to identify you, you would consider it harassment (well I certainly would) how is this different to that?

 

His refusal to explain the motives behind this vendetta (in two separate posts) is to me prima facie evidence that this is a targeted campaign against one or more individuals

 

Unless the individuals participate on this forum and agree to Dave's actions. I ask that the moderators take down this topic.

 

Given that I have not identified the individuals, how so?

 

If I go back every 14 days, when a "reasonable person" might expect all the boats to be different because they are obeying the rules, there can be no "course of harrassment"

 

Of course, if this does constitute harassment, I can show your posts urging me to provide evidence, and that would be you up for incitement!

 

It would be good if someone in the area let them know what was going on, and that they were being discussed on a national forum for dubious and unstated reasons.

 

Why would it be good?

 

My reasons are not unstated. Those reasons are twofold;

1. To produce anonymised statistics concerning the extent of overstaying, to inform a discussion of the issue.
2. To pass the details to the authority concerned with proper enforcement, in order for them to use it for enforcement purposes.

[cotswoldsman]

 

If I go back every 14 days, when a "reasonable person" might expect all the boats to be different because they are obeying the rules, there can be no "course of harrassment"

 

 

 

 

Have you established that they have not paid for winter moorings yet?

[RLWP]

I've found you these:

 

 

 

Richard

[mayalld]

I've found you these:

 

 

 

Richard

 

I am already fully equipped for the task, thanks

[alan_fincher]

I've found you these:

 

 

Richard

 

 

I am already fully equipped for the task, thanks

 

But our post men no longer wear hats like that......

 

(Sorry, Dave - I really must stop).

[gaggle]

BW provided information data under f.o.i rules , are you saying they provided misleading information to deliberatly be the opposite of what they and others say about cc,s overstaying.

He cant be far off commiting a public order offence with his behaviour , lets hope one of his victims does not end up in court for some other offence moving dave on.

[mayalld]

BW provided information data under f.o.i rules , are you saying they provided misleading information to deliberatly be the opposite of what they and others say about cc,s overstaying.

He cant be far off commiting a public order offence with his behaviour , lets hope one of his victims does not end up in court for some other offence moving dave on.

 

How can I possibly be commiting a public order offence?

 

AFAICS, the only public order issue appears to come from a number of people who REALLY don't want any actual data to be produced making suggestions of attempts to stir up trouble.

[Bobbybass]

The thing is..that BW will not really give a toss.

I agree with the earlier people that you have nothing better to do...a curtain twitcher of the canals...

 

At present I am in Spain..Hmmm..its warm here...

Yeah...I could waste my time and money sitting in my old house curtain twitching...OR...I could just say...'nothing I can do'...so just move on...chill out...relax...

The system...is the system..

 

 

Just chill man...

 

Chilled.

Bob

Edited February 9, 2011 by Bobbybass

[mayalld]

The thing is..that BW will not really give a toss.

I agree with the earlier people that you have nothing better to do...a curtain twitcher of the canals...

 

At present I am in Spain..Hmmm..its warm here...

Yeah...I could waste my time and money sitting in my old house curtain twitching...OR...I could just say...'nothing I can do'...so just move on...chill out...relax...

The system...is the system..

You stir up the water..people you upset...will know who...and where you are..

Just chill man...

 

Chilled.

Bob

 

And how will people know who and where I am?

 

That, and a number of other posts from others, have started to take on a distinctly threatening overtone.

[Bobbybass]

And how will people know who and where I am?

 

That, and a number of other posts from others, have started to take on a distinctly threatening overtone.

 

You accusing me of being threatening from this...?

Are you....paranoid...?

Are there...overstayers...under your bed.....?

 

He hee..

 

Bob

Edited February 9, 2011 by Bobbybass

[Lady Muck]

The thing is..that BW will not really give a toss.

 

Yes. They already know where everyone is anyway. They also know stuff that you don't such as if a boater is ill, or has some other problem. So what's the point?

 

I still think the boat checker site was designed to satisfy the curtain twitchers, so they would stop complaining to BW.

 

It creates no value. All it does is cause bad feeling. Look at this thread.

 

And how will people know who and where I am?

 

That, and a number of other posts from others, have started to take on a distinctly threatening overtone.

 

 

And we're supposed to be surprised at that are we? This thread was always going to end in tears (IMHO)

Edited February 9, 2011 by Lady Muck

[cotswoldsman]

How can I possibly be commiting a public order offence?

 

AFAICS, the only public order issue appears to come from a number of people who REALLY don't want any actual data to be produced making suggestions of attempts to stir up trouble.

 

I am not defending over stayers but unless you have the full facts from BW your data is meaningless........once again have you established if any of these boats have BW winter mooring........have you established that maybe someone on these boats is unwell and has permission to stay from BW........

 

What I think you need to do to give your data any meaning is to knock on every boat and say something like

 

"Sorry to trouble you. I am Dave and I am obsessed with over stayers. Could you please tell me if you have a winter mooring or have permission from BW to overstay. I am noting your number on a regular basis and taking photos of your boat as part of a survey that will be sent to BW. In order to give my data any meaning I do need to know about your mooring status"

[mayalld]

And we're supposed to be surprised at that are we? This thread was always going to end in tears (IMHO)

 

So, people are starting to post veiled threats of violence, and you (a moderator) tell me that I shouldn't be surprised?

 

What is it, do you think that anybody who dares stand up and say "no, that won't do actually" deserves a good hiding.

 

Might I suggest that given that attitude, you should resign as a moderator.

 

I am not defending over stayers but unless you have the full facts from BW your data is meaningless........once again have you established if any of these boats have BW winter mooring........have you established that maybe someone on these boats is unwell and has permission to stay from BW........

 

A FOI request is in for the winter mooring question, and frankly I find it rather difficult to believe that 6 boats are all there because they feel unwell.

[Bobbybass]

Yes. They already know where everyone is anyway. They also know stuff that you don't such as if a boater is ill, or has some other problem. So what's the point?

 

I still think the boat checker site was designed to satisfy the curtain twitchers, so they would stop complaining to BW.

 

It creates no value. All it does is cause bad feeling. Look at this thread.

 

 

 

 

And we're supposed to be surprised at that are we? This thread was always going to end in tears (IMHO)

 

Aha...they know..thats why the towpath walkers have the little screen things.

They have satellite locking...so they enter your boat number...and it records you at a location..?

The last thing BW want is people to start sending reports. If you email..they can pretend they lost it...but type a letter...they have to make a paper file...and then put it in a cabinet...

I think it will end in tears...I am having them right now over my sangria !

 

Bob

[gaggle]

How can I possibly be commiting a public order offence?

 

AFAICS, the only public order issue appears to come from a number of people who REALLY don't want any actual data to be produced making suggestions of attempts to stir up trouble.

 

If your behaviour is likely to cause alarm ,distress or embarrasment to another person it can be a public order offence , minor offence maybe ,section 4,4a and 5 of the act i think it is and the police normally use it to deal with people who are being a nuisance and likely to misbehave.I am not absolutely sure of the detail but i am sure you can find the info.

 

Actual data has been provided by others who got it from bw , you can as others have said ask bw for further information about your stake out location and maybe twenty other random sites around the network , that i am sure would give you a picture that gives a clearer view without the need for you to act like some character from The Shining.

I know i am going to enjoy my visit up there this year , i have only been on the lower .

[Bobbybass]

So, people are starting to post veiled threats of violence, and you (a moderator) tell me that I shouldn't be surprised?

 

What is it, do you think that anybody who dares stand up and say "no, that won't do actually" deserves a good hiding.

 

Might I suggest that given that attitude, you should resign as a moderator.

 

 

 

A FOI request is in for the winter mooring question, and frankly I find it rather difficult to believe that 6 boats are all there because they feel unwell.

 

What a strange fellow..?

I guess it takes all sorts to make a world..

Good job the moderators don't knee jerk to every paranoid person that sees..'overstayers' under the bed...

You go for it old bean...

You stand up...and be counted...

 

Tee hee...

 

Bob

Edited February 9, 2011 by Bobbybass

[Lady Muck]

Aha...they know..thats why the towpath walkers have the little screen things.

They have satellite locking...so they enter your boat number...and it records you at a location..?

The last thing BW want is people to start sending reports. If you email..they can pretend they lost it...but type a letter...they have to make a paper file...and then put it in a cabinet...

I think it will end in tears...I am having them right now over my sangria !

 

Bob

 

Right now I am in a house that is chock full of Rioja. I might have to join you in spirit.