Planning a life afloat

[Minos]

Circe and I are planning to live afloat as soon as the children are off the payroll. The only question is, 'How?'

 

When it comes to traditions, I am an iconoclast. If someone says to me, 'Such and such a boat needs to fulfil these criteria,' my first instinct is, 'What is the best way to break those rules?' When I read on these forums the controversies flush-out toilets and bow thrusters cause, all I can think about is how much I want them.

 

So when we order a boat, you can pretty much guarantee that it will be a floating loft apartment with bow thrusters, fenders, a flush toilet, aircon, double glazing, underfloor heating and anything else that will have the traditionalists spitting feathers and demanding revolution. An orangery, probably. Or a jacuzzi. Not because I want it, but because someone else said that I can't have it.

 

None of that is important, though. We are planning to live on the waterways for decades. However we do it, it will be comfortable.

 

Now we've got that out of the way, here's the serious question: with a 62' narrowboat we can cruise the whole of the waterways except for that nasty little bit around Halifax, and still have fun in Europe for a decade or so. With a Dutch barge, huge amounts of the waterways are off-limits, but European waterways will be easier.

 

Which would you go for, and why?

[Barry L Burnell]

I am more of a traditionalist, however I can see the reason you may want the luxuries-if you can afford it-or if you can afford to replace it if it goes wrong then I say go for it! I will probably have to consider some luxuries for when me and the mrs go back to a narrowboat. Anyway, I would suggest a 57ft so you can go everywhere.

[Minos]

I am more of a traditionalist, however I can see the reason you may want the luxuries-if you can afford it-or if you can afford to replace it if it goes wrong then I say go for it! I will probably have to consider some luxuries for when me and the mrs go back to a narrowboat. Anyway, I would suggest a 57ft so you can go everywhere.

Yes, we can afford it. We're talking about another ten years of hard saving to get there, pensions, yadda yadda - you know the story.

 

Circe would happily sacrifice a few canals in exchange for another 5 feet of shoe storage...

 

What I'm really asking is not what you would choose, but why you would choose it.

 

To me, the rationale behind a larger boat would only make sense if it was capable of hopping from estuary to estuary around the European coasts. I would work towards the necessary qualifications to ensure competency to navigate in that way. It's just that without acquiring the skills and trying it, I don't know how to make the appropriate judgement about whether it is worth the extra effort, expense, palaver...

[steelaway]

Yes, we can afford it. We're talking about another ten years of hard saving to get there, pensions, yadda yadda - you know the story.

 

Circe would happily sacrifice a few canals in exchange for another 5 feet of shoe storage...

 

What I'm really asking is not what you would choose, but why you would choose it.

 

To me, the rationale behind a larger boat would only make sense if it was capable of hopping from estuary to estuary around the European coasts. I would work towards the necessary qualifications to ensure competency to navigate in that way. It's just that without acquiring the skills and trying it, I don't know how to make the appropriate judgement about whether it is worth the extra effort, expense, palaver...

 

 

Hi

 

You dont have to limit yourself to one boat in your life time. Buy a 57ft and give it a try. Down size and leave all your non essentials in the kids garage.

If after 5 years or so of travelling the length and breath of the English canal system, you still want to try France buy another boat more suitable for over there.

Then you will know exactly - what you want from/on a boat

 

Alex

[bottle]

Look at this way narrowboats are for canals, if you want to go anywhere else (bumpy water, continental canals) get a boat suitable for those.

[Joshua]

Your talking about 3 different waters for which you ideally need three different boats.

Narrow boat for the inland UK where 90% of the canals are narrow, broad beam barge for Europe where ALL the waterways are broad and a boat with a keel to sail off-shore.

 

Joshua

[Hippoclides]

Narrow boat for the inland UK where 90% of the canals are narrow

That's rather an exaggeration, have a look at this map.

 

You'd certainly miss a bit in a widebeam but nothing like 90%. The advantage of a proper Dutch barge (i.e. one with some seagoing capability) is that you can easily move between the different broad waterway systems, both in the UK and on the continent, without getting craned out or taking your life in your hands... I'd certainly get one if I could afford it. But I can't.

[romarni123]

Circe and I are planning to live afloat as soon as the children are off the payroll. The only question is, 'How?'

 

When it comes to traditions, I am an iconoclast. If someone says to me, 'Such and such a boat needs to fulfil these criteria,' my first instinct is, 'What is the best way to break those rules?' When I read on these forums the controversies flush-out toilets and bow thrusters cause, all I can think about is how much I want them.

 

So when we order a boat, you can pretty much guarantee that it will be a floating loft apartment with bow thrusters, fenders, a flush toilet, aircon, double glazing, underfloor heating and anything else that will have the traditionalists spitting feathers and demanding revolution. An orangery, probably. Or a jacuzzi. Not because I want it, but because someone else said that I can't have it.

 

None of that is important, though. We are planning to live on the waterways for decades. However we do it, it will be comfortable.

 

Now we've got that out of the way, here's the serious question: with a 62' narrowboat we can cruise the whole of the waterways except for that nasty little bit around Halifax, and still have fun in Europe for a decade or so. With a Dutch barge, huge amounts of the waterways are off-limits, but European waterways will be easier.

 

Which would you go for, and why?

 

 

With all that equipment you want I dont think you would get out of the marina. I would go for 57ft if you want to do all the uk.

[Minos]

With all that equipment you want I dont think you would get out of the marina. I would go for 57ft if you want to do all the uk.

I love the way you think.

 

Personally, I would go for that.

 

However, the problem is that we want everything. We want to do all the UK (maybe happy to sacrifice a couple of bits if necessary) and then do Europe. Or as much of it as we can.

 

The issue is where the compromise takes place.

 

57' will do everything - but what is 57' like to live on? what is 57' like in France? Germany? Poland? The Czech Republic?

[carlt]

Your talking about 3 different waters for which you ideally need three different boats.

Narrow boat for the inland UK where 90% of the canals are narrow, broad beam barge for Europe where ALL the waterways are broad and a boat with a keel to sail off-shore.

 

Joshua

You don't need a keel, to sail off-shore.

 

My boat has no keel yet is probably one of the most seaworthy boats out there.

[Joshua]

That's rather an exaggeration, have a look at this map.

 

You'd certainly miss a bit in a widebeam but nothing like 90%. The advantage of a proper Dutch barge (i.e. one with some seagoing capability) is that you can easily move between the different broad waterway systems, both in the UK and on the continent, without getting craned out or taking your life in your hands... I'd certainly get one if I could afford it. But I can't.

 

But most of the broad bits seem to be isolated by narrow canals so from a practical point of view, the UK canal ‘system’ is narrow ?

 

Joshua

[carlt]

But most of the broad bits seem to be isolated by narrow canals so from a practical point of view, the UK canal ‘system’ is narrow ?

 

Not if your boat is suitable for coastal use.

 

Humber Keel Oritan, in Brixham.

[sueb]

Buy Whitfield

Sue

[bargemast]

Plenty of gadgets on that one, will probably take a couple of years to know how to use them all.

 

Peter.

[Circe]

Buy Whitfield

Sue

 

 

I think that the thing about whatever boat we end up with is that it must feel like home. All homes have their own little quirks and irritations (which is what makes it your home) but that's different to living in someone else's concept of what your home should be. That's never properly comfortable.

 

I love narrowboats (preferably without the hideous cruiser seats and joystick controls ) but the European waterways are certainly part of the retirement plan. I know that's possible (although a bit interesting) on a nb. I know very little about Dutch barges at the moment, but I suppose part of the fun is reading up and finding out!

 

Edited to add: I am right in thinking that a 60-61ft nb is ok for everywhere but the Calder & Hebble, the Huddersfield broad and a couple of little bits like Linton to Ripon? It would do the rest of the system ok, wouldn't it? Could we stretch it as far as 62'or is that getting a bit tight?

Edited January 15, 2011 by Circe

[Sunset Rising]

 

 

Edited to add: I am right in thinking that a 60-61ft nb is ok for everywhere but the Calder & Hebble, the Huddersfield broad and a couple of little bits like Linton to Ripon? It would do the rest of the system ok, wouldn't it? Could we stretch it as far as 62'or is that getting a bit tight?

I have been planning a 62 on the same thought process. My understanding is that it will just about fit in the L&M locks corner to corner but leaves you open to (very) wet fore and aft decks from leaky gates.

[sueb]

57' is fine the only thing you gain by going larger is the scare factor of sinking the boat in leaky locks.

Sue

[Spangle]

Hi Guys,

 

Interesting reading so far! We sold up 7 years ago, selling the house contents on Ebay wherever possible, and we had a 59ft built to our spec up on the L & L. OUr boat has everything in that we had in the house (fridge freezer, washing machine, central heating, shower, bath, tumble dryer, you name it). We found that the more you disposed of, the easier it became. Our builder said that basically you could move onto a boat with just clothes and kitchenware and on the whole this is correct. There's just so much that we didn't need (and it was a 3 bedroomed detached house with workshop & garage that we emptied!!!)

This 59ft allows us to do virtually everywhere except the bit up to Ripon, we have even managed the Huddersfield locks which were only 57.5 - that was a struggle, we had to go in diagonally and take off a fender, but we managed it.

It's our plan to take this boat to Europe and start again over there, in fact we thought we'd have gone by now. Except we still are exploring the inland waterways here!

Yes, it will be a bit of a challenge but one we think we are up for. Though there's lots to think about for that major step.

A Dutch barge would be nice - but the more space you have to play with, the more clutter you carry. And quite a few seem to manage with 'just' a narrowboat. And anyway, we don't think we can afford one! Better to stick with what we know, we know how she handles and her complete history, so that's what we intend.....

[Bodkin]

You'd certainly miss a bit in a widebeam but nothing like 90%.

Maybe, but Joshua has hit the nail on the head:

 

 

But most of the broad bits seem to be isolated by narrow canals so from a practical point of view, the UK canal ‘system’ is narrow ?

We set off from Wakefield - an area which is all broad locks, since leaving there in July, and travelling round much of the north half of the network (T&M, River Soar, SUC, Coventry etc) we have only seen a handful of broad locks (coming off the T&M onto the River Trent/Soar), other than that they are all narrow locks, so in order to navigate the majority of the waterways, which it sounds like you intend to do, you would need a narrowboat.

 

 

57' will do everything - but what is 57' like to live on? what is 57' like in France? Germany? Poland? The Czech Republic?

 

My husband and I live on a 57' very comfortably. We have reverse layout, galley, dinette (converts to double for guests), living area, bathroom and fixed double. A couple of extra foot would give us more wardrobe space but you soon discover that you don't need all the clothes and shoes you had on land (they'd get ruined straight away!)

 

What you need to consider is, if you go for a 62' what areas would you NOT be able to reach because of your length? You might not be able to get through a few locks on the L&L in an area you're not bothered about but what about the areas beyond there - would you want to miss out on the northern parts of the network?

 

I can't comment on whether a 57' would be good for the european canals I'm afraid.

[DJR]

Hi, it will be necessary to forestall your independent aspiration to try things where others fail and bow to tradition which has the research of experience and common sense. If you need jaccuzzi and bow thruster and lots of whizzy bits I would suggest a more glamorous location...the med?

[jonk]

I have been looking into having a narrowboat built and have researched these forums with the following conclusions:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=561789

You can ignore the argument about a second water tank, but it is obviously a good idea don't you think

 

BUT the boat I buy/build will probably be completely different . 57ft would be my maximum - I wouldn't like not being able to go somewhere just for the sake of a couple of feet.

 

As for Europe, I would do the UK first and then when the time approaches decide whether to change boats or do it in the familiar narrowboat.

 

Good luck

John

[Sunset Rising]

Since you are in the planning stage you can ignore the fact that it is a boat. Pretend it is a railway carriage and work out exactly how much cabin space you REALLY HAVE to have. The foredeck and stern will take care of themselves

[ymu]

There's a bit of a tension between having all mod cons and being able to go everywhere. If you want to - and do - go everywhere, you won't be on shoreline power very much and it will be pretty difficult to supply enough power to actually use all those appliances.

 

Unless being able to go everywhere is a priority, or you particularly want to spend time on the short-lock canals, it's not necessarily worth getting a shorter boat to accommodate the shorter locks. The extra 8' to 13' of cabin space in a 70' boat compared to 62'/57' makes a big difference if you're living on board full-time - especially if you want a lot of equipment on board. Remember that the bow, engine and stern take up the same length of boat whatever the total length, so the proportionate gain in space is much larger than it seems.

 

If you want to do Europe as well, and money is no object, you may be best off getting a sea-worthy widebeam which can make the channel crossing and let you hop round the coast to get between wide canals. Giving up access to some of the canal system in return for access to the coast seems like a fair swap.

[Circe]

Hi, it will be necessary to forestall your independent aspiration to try things where others fail and bow to tradition which has the research of experience and common sense. If you need jaccuzzi and bow thruster and lots of whizzy bits I would suggest a more glamorous location...the med?

 

Bearing in mind that we both prefer showers - do you not think he might have been having you on a bit?

 

 

I think also, it's probably going to be worth us hiring on the French waterways at some point, just to give us an idea of what it's like in reality over there. If possible, I'd prefer to stick to one boat for wherever - after all, it's going to be our home.

 

My leaning is still towards a narrowboat, it has to be said

[soldthehouse]

I love the way you think.

 

Personally, I would go for that.

 

However, the problem is that we want everything. We want to do all the UK (maybe happy to sacrifice a couple of bits if necessary) and then do Europe. Or as much of it as we can.

 

The issue is where the compromise takes place.

 

57' will do everything - but what is 57' like to live on? what is 57' like in France? Germany? Poland? The Czech Republic?

My understanding is that narrowboats are highly unsuitable on continental waterways because of the volume of commercial traffic and the large wash that they create. Unless you are seasick proof and all loose items are permanently stowed a narrowboat is not for the continent.

Edited January 15, 2011 by soldthehouse