Hippoclides

Should we be assuming the OP owns one..? If he is renting privately, living on a boat may superficially seem to be much cheaper.

From what I've seen there seems to be much less variety in widebeams. Smaller boat builders don't tend to go for them so there are fewer unusual layouts or quirky interiors. There are a lot of full-fitted Liverpool boats on sale, nothing wrong with that, but they do tend to be pretty similar. The choice in interiors generally seems to boil down to how big the shell is and whether you want an extra cabin or not. But there are exceptions, Khan is one with its open-plan interior, and there are some trad sterns around but they're much less common than cruisers. Anyway, good luck with your search!

Hi Andy, Did you have "c/o" as part of your address? I've heard it sometimes helps to leave it off - then the bank is none the wiser that you're not living there. Admittedly, this might not be possible with business premises.

Hard to tell how boats get priced, I guess it's a compromise between what the owner wants for them and what the broker thinks they'll sell for. I think the owners of some more recent widebeam boats, bought as luxury liveaboards, are thinking of them like houses and expect to get back what they paid. It seems to take them a long time to accept this isn't going to happen and finally drop their prices. Generally the second-hand market is much weaker than it was before the recession and an old hand recently advised me to start by offering 30% less than asking price on any boat that took my fancy! That might be a bit extreme but I often see it mentioned on here that many go for 10-20% less than asking. Khan is quite unusual, I haven't seen very many widebeam "narrow boats" for sale that are that old, most seem to be five years or less. So either they only became common relatively recently, or a lot of recent buyers are regretting their decision and trying to sell their boat on. You might be able to bargain the price down a bit on the basis of age, particularly if a survey threw something up. The interior design is also a break from the norm, although I couldn't say that I like it myself. Nice floor, though. No idea about the relative quality of the enginges but the solar panels and wind turbine may have added something to the price. I've never bought a boat (yet) but have been looking at widebeams for sale for a while, so hope this is of more help than not!

I said the system tray was packed. That's the space on the bottom right hand side of the screen (although I've no idea if it's still there on Windows 7). Each icon there represents a program, running in the background, that took time to load at startup and is using memory and CPU cycles. I've noticed on many machines, particularly laptops, that it is often full of programs the owners have no real knowledge of and in many cases have no actual use for. It just seemed like a good idea when they installed it, or the computer came with them already installed. Windows is also designed (although maybe "evolved" is more accurate) rather differently than *nix OSes, like Ubuntu, and some of these differences, like having a centralised registry, make it very easy for 3rd party software to affect the running of the system when really they shouldn't be able to. Geeks have been saying for years that the designers should sort Windows out, sometimes very impolitely. However it's so complex that this is no small task, and almost certainly not a profitable one. It's much easier to pop some eye candy on and tell people to buy a faster computer Anyway, I'll bow out from this as I don't want to start an OS holy war (there are far too many on the web already!). For the record, I do use Windows but it, like all operating systems, requires some care and attention to keep it at its best.

I think that's pretty close to the truth of it. It's the installation of lots of software which is badly-written and/or unnecessary that does it. Without that (at least since Win2k, anyway) I've found they usually run pretty happily for years. Windows' strength is also its weakness; it makes it so easy to install software without a second thought that most people do. I've seen system trays so full of programs that they fill half the taskbar, and then the user complains about it being slow.

Living on a "leisure" mooring is something I may, by necessity, have to consider... Is toleration the general BW stance, or does it depend on the local moorings manager, etc? Is the status of moorings ever actively enforced, or is action usually only the result of complaints about non-official residents being made to the local council or BW? Is there even a legal definition of "residential" moorers, e.g. what happens if you cruise a lot and/or have an "official" address elsewhere (family or friends)? Apologies for all the questions - any answers gratefully received!

And continuous cruisers? <runs for cover>

How do people make narrowboats disappear? They don't exactly move fast and there's only so much canal they can cover in a given time, plus which people tend to remember them passing if they're in any way distinctive. Or is the danger organised thieves craning them out, repainting, and then dropping them back in somewhere else?

Just because you are travelling predominantly on narrow waterways, it doesn't prove that the majority of the UK waterways are narrow. Of course a widebeam will not be able to navigate some very significant and enjoyable parts of the system. If the OP dreams of the BCN, for example, then narrow is the only way to go. However, if he can afford a seagoing widebeam, this opens up the possibility of the Broads and the entirely separate Scottish canals, as well as the European network, and overcomes the problem of the northern and southern wide canals not being linked, as a spot of coastal navigation can take him to one from the other. A widebeam of course also provides much more space to live in. A widebeam "narrowboat", otoh, is of course trapped without craning out, so is not a good choice. As regards length, there are RCD class C barges of 57' and below (so the Calder & Hebble remain navigable). However the OP may find it useful to look at the summary on the Rugby Boats website, under "Hints'n'tips"->"Size Matters" (sorry can't link direct).

That's rather an exaggeration, have a look at this map. You'd certainly miss a bit in a widebeam but nothing like 90%. The advantage of a proper Dutch barge (i.e. one with some seagoing capability) is that you can easily move between the different broad waterway systems, both in the UK and on the continent, without getting craned out or taking your life in your hands... I'd certainly get one if I could afford it. But I can't.

Thanks, Albion. Based on the HMRC rules, my calculation is that the first boat I linked to would need to be 1.68m/5'6"(ish) from deck to baseplate, to qualify as 15 gross tons, which seems to be unlikely. A 60x12' would only need to be 1.4m/4', which seems more probable (and I have seen widebeams of this dimension advertised as VAT free before). Anybody happen to know the depth of their widebeam? I wondered if the rule had changed because I think I saw someone (probably on CWDF) mention that the roof was now being counted as the "deck" on NBs and similar boats. Unfortunately I can't remember which thread this was. However the HMRC page states pretty unambiguously that it isn't, so I think I'll go with their view! Your second link was also very interesting: qualifying vessels would have rather lower running costs as well, as it seems blacking, engine maintenance (or replacement!) and other repairs would also be zero-rated. That's a fair point, which is why I was querying a second-hand Liverpool Boat being more than a new Collingwood... they are the same manufacturer, aren't they? I think I'd go for the Bently as well but, if forced to chose between a second-hand Ford Focus and a new Ford Focus, I'd prefer the new one! (Edited to correct gibberish)

I notice a recent addition on the New and Used Boats site (Linky) is a brand new Collingwood, on sale for £91,200 but only £76,000 "when declared as a liveaboard", i.e. the 20% VAT is not charged. This set me thinking about a few things: 1) I thought under the "gross tonnage" calculations used by HMRC that a 60x10' wasn't quite large enough to qualify for zero VAT? Have the rules changed recently? 2) There are quite a few used boats of a similar size (and the same builder) on sale for much more than £76k (a random example). On the face of it, this makes them pretty unlikely to sell unless the asking prices are cut significantly: unless it comes with a good mooring, why would anyone pay higher than brand new prices for a boat that's years old? 3) For older boats, given that the original purchaser presumably paid VAT when they bought the boat, is it possible for it to be reclaimed retrospectively if they, or someone buying it off them at a later date, was to declare themselves a liveaboard? Any insights gratefully received!

Of what exactly? Can't see that it's doing any harm and, if nobody is going past, it can't cause offence. The forum will never know

Given that Dean is talking about mooring in the middle of nowhere, couldn't the waste problem be reduced by all concerned urinating in the hedges? Or is one full cassette per day for 6 people already assuming this?

No, it appears to be a leisure mooring: https://www.bwmooringvacancies.com/search/vacancy_details.php?id=2563 Does anyone know if BW ever auction towpath moorings for widebeams? The GU is a wide canal but I can't think of the last time I saw a vacancy on it for a boat over "2.1m/6.89ft".