REALLY Making Tiles Stick Near A Hot Stove

[alan_fincher]

We put a lot of effort into completely stripping out Chalice's stove, completely relining the surrounding wood in Masterboard, then tiling, before refitting a refurbished stove.

 

Rather daftly, we didn't follow previous advice about avoiding conventional tiling adhesives. This was in part due to a very convincing argument from the manager in Topps Tiles, (who seemed to know his stuff), that a suitable powdered glue, with the right agent to add flexibility added when mixed, would be fit for purpose.

 

Sadly this was bad advice, and the new tiling has started to fall off.

 

Unfortunately, the end result is tiles that have not a lot of cement adhering, but the glue itself is very well stuck as a cement like layer all over the Masterboard.

 

It will be a problem to remove this without damaging the Masterboard, I think, so unless we go over it, we may have to strip the whole lot, and start again with new materials.

 

The tiles we were using are a very hard "porcelain" type, in a terracotta colour, and their dark colour probably causes them to absorb more heat than many other types or colours might.

 

So what would people use, please ?

 

I have heard of use of silicones, Plumbaflue, carpet glue & many other things.

 

So can people please say what has worked reliably for them.

 

But I am equally interested in what people have had failures with - for example if one person thought a particular glue was great, but someone else had had failures with it, then I'd probably not try it.

[jenlyn]

We put a lot of effort into completely stripping out Chalice's stove, completely relining the surrounding wood in Masterboard, then tiling, before refitting a refurbished stove.

 

Rather daftly, we didn't follow previous advice about avoiding conventional tiling adhesives. This was in part due to a very convincing argument from the manager in Topps Tiles, (who seemed to know his stuff), that a suitable powdered glue, with the right agent to add flexibility added when mixed, would be fit for purpose.

 

Sadly this was bad advice, and the new tiling has started to fall off.

 

Unfortunately, the end result is tiles that have not a lot of cement adhering, but the glue itself is very well stuck as a cement like layer all over the Masterboard.

 

It will be a problem to remove this without damaging the Masterboard, I think, so unless we go over it, we may have to strip the whole lot, and start again with new materials.

 

The tiles we were using are a very hard "porcelain" type, in a terracotta colour, and their dark colour probably causes them to absorb more heat than many other types or colours might.

 

So what would people use, please ?

 

I have heard of use of silicones, Plumbaflue, carpet glue & many other things.

 

So can people please say what has worked reliably for them.

 

But I am equally interested in what people have had failures with - for example if one person thought a particular glue was great, but someone else had had failures with it, then I'd probably not try it.

 

evo stick did mine, have to be very precise when you adhere them tho

[rjasmith]

Didn't Graham Booth recommend Cork Tile adhesive in his book? Perhaps that was only in bathrooms rather than stove backs. Maybe Cork Tile Adhesive is a bit like Evostick as Jenlyn has recommended.

 

Interesting that it has failed on the back of the tiles rather than on the Masterboard.

 

Maybe some sort of "priming" of the tile backs with a dilute solution of the next type of adhesive would help - rather like using weak pva glue to prime plaster work etc?

 

I shall look forward to advice from others on this one as well as one day I've got to tile up my Super Isol board which looks horribly unfriendly to adhesives!

 

Richard

[GSer]

I had real problems at just one point on my old boat no matter what we used it failed, then I used Sikaflex, job done.

 

The only down side is that it has less initial 'grab' so a support has to be fashioned to hold the tiles untill the glue sets

 

Good luck

 

Paul

[blodger]

We put a lot of effort into completely stripping out Chalice's stove, completely relining the surrounding wood in Masterboard, then tiling, before refitting a refurbished stove.

 

Rather daftly, we didn't follow previous advice about avoiding conventional tiling adhesives. This was in part due to a very convincing argument from the manager in Topps Tiles, (who seemed to know his stuff), that a suitable powdered glue, with the right agent to add flexibility added when mixed, would be fit for purpose.

Sadly this was bad advice, and the new tiling has started to fall off.

 

Unfortunately, the end result is tiles that have not a lot of cement adhering, but the glue itself is very well stuck as a cement like layer all over the Masterboard.

 

It will be a problem to remove this without damaging the Masterboard, I think, so unless we go over it, we may have to strip the whole lot, and start again with new materials.

 

The tiles we were using are a very hard "porcelain" type, in a terracotta colour, and their dark colour probably causes them to absorb more heat than many other types or colours might.

 

So what would people use, please ?

 

I have heard of use of silicones, Plumbaflue, carpet glue & many other things.

 

So can people please say what has worked reliably for them.

 

But I am equally interested in what people have had failures with - for example if one person thought a particular glue was great, but someone else had had failures with it, then I'd probably not try it.

I am surprised that ordinary tiling adhesive failed. It was with some trepidation that I tiled over the heat resisting stuff around my stove including ceiling and a wall in the bathroom; It has stayed well stuck. I probably used bog standard B&Q stuff,

[Lee J]

I've use plumba, high temp silicone. We used a couple of blobs of hot glue to hold the tiles in place until the silicone dried. grouted in a conventional manner with some flexible floor grout. onto a masterboard product. Had some good hot fires, a few decent crashes! and so far everything seems solid. Did the same in the heads, though obvously not with high temp silicone. this time on moisture resistant MDF. Same result.

 

Lee

[Paul Evans]

Didn't Graham Booth recommend Cork Tile adhesive in his book? Perhaps that was only in bathrooms rather than stove backs. Maybe Cork Tile Adhesive is a bit like Evostick as Jenlyn has recommended.

 

Interesting that it has failed on the back of the tiles rather than on the Masterboard.

 

Maybe some sort of "priming" of the tile backs with a dilute solution of the next type of adhesive would help - rather like using weak pva glue to prime plaster work etc?

 

I shall look forward to advice from others on this one as well as one day I've got to tile up my Super Isol board which looks horribly unfriendly to adhesives!

 

Richard

 

I don't remember Graham Booth recommending cork tile adhesive for stove surrounds but I followed his advice when I tiled our bathroom 8+ years ago and the tiles are still up. His advice was to coat the wall with adhesive and leave it to dry overnight. You then had to coat the back of the tiles with adhesive and stick them on.

 

Did you follow that approach with your stove surround, Alan? If not, coating the Masterboard, leaving it to dry and then coating the tiles may be the way to go.

 

Sorry, I can't help with cleaning the Masterboard.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Paul Evans

[alan_fincher]

I followed the directions on the products I used, and they did not include priming a porous surface before applying the tile cement.

 

The cement has stuck limpet-like to the Masterboard, but not the tiles.

 

I suppose it's possible the porosity of the Masterboard drew too much water from the cement, making it less likely to adhere to the tiles ?

 

I have toyed with Jenlyn's Evostick idea, (I like Evostick). I'm tempted to just level up the still adhering cement, and try straight gluing on to that. I don't find many things glued with Evostick ever break loose, but I admit I have never tried it in cases that get really hot.

[Guest]

Nail em on....

 

 

 

(in case you haven't guessed, tiling is not one of my better DIY skills.. )

 

 

 

..

Edited November 25, 2010 by MJG

[WotEver]

I suppose it's possible the porosity of the Masterboard drew too much water from the cement, making it less likely to adhere to the tiles ?

That's exactly what I was thinking had happened. Did the instructions give any leeway with the amount of water you mix into the powder? Maybe you could have made a 'wetter' mixture.

 

I have no personal experience, so can't suggest what to use (I don't know what Wot Ever's are stuck with, but they don't fall off), but if I were you I'd wander back to Topps with a tile in my hand and say "Oy!"

 

I suspect that now the Masterboard is 'sealed' you should be good to go with the original cement again over the top of existing. But as I say, that opinion's not based on experience.

 

Tony

[Grace and Favour]

Alan, I'm sorry - I cannot help constructively, other than to suggest you speak to a couple of businesses that should know - consider an Aga installer, or even an industrial tiler for high temperature installations - there must be some

[Neil TNC]

I am rather interested in this, as like Allan I have just stuck tiles to Masterbord in N Bear Nest' new stove surround. I used pre-mixed "flexible acrylic tile cement". I also did a low level grout with this stuff (small 110mm tiles with bigish gaps), before grouting with pre-mixed "flexible" grout. I did leave a long time to dry before each operation.

[WotEver]

A quick Google turned up this: http://shop.vitcas.com/vitcas-heat-resistant-tile-adhesive-14-p.asp

 

Vitcas Heat Resistant Tile Adhesive is a ready mixed tile cement specially formulated for use high temperature conditions where ordinary tile cements are inadequate for the long term retention of tiles.

 

Again - no experience of the product, just trying to be helpful.

 

Tony

[Keeping Up]

Mine also use Evostick and have stayed in place remarkably well

[Québec]

We built, tiled and installed the hearth just a year ago, so possibly too early to say....but it seems to be holding up well, especially as the tiles just behind the stove get incredibly hot. We used two types of tiles: normal ceramic tiles for the sides, slate tiles for the base (both from Topps Tiles) and used one of the extra strong, flexible, adhesive/sealants that had a fire rating (haven't got it here so can't tell you what it is, but all red cartridge, black lettering, I think we got it in Wickes)!)

 

[john6767]

I have some tiling to do, and was told by the surveyor when we where chatting to use silicone (presumable high temp). I am Interested in what others have done as I don't want them falling off as it will certainly take me a long time to do (tiling not my strong point). So my question; the references to Evostik, by that are people meaning their well known contact adhesive or their tiling products Evo-stik products?

Edited November 25, 2010 by john6767

[david and julie]

I used pre-mixed Evo Stick flexible tile adhesive(not contact adhesive) on all my tiling - full bathroom/behind cooker/behind and under the stove - I didn't use PVA anywhere - indeed I was specifically advised not to do so.

 

I used UniBond flexible for the grout - small tubs from B&Q etc - which is available in several colours.

 

To date I've had no problems.

 

I'd be wary with the adhesives designed for fireplaces as they're probably not very flexible.

 

Main thing I think with tiling is to use quality products - BAL do some of the best adhesives and are available at Topps.

 

These people are OK for advice on tiling.

[Québec]

I have some tiling to do, and was told by the surveyor when we where chatting to use silicone (presumable high temp). I am Interested in what others have done as I don't want them falling off as it will certainly take me a long time to do (tiling not my strong point). So my question; the references to Evostik, by that are people meaning their well known contact adhesive or their tiling products Evo-stik products?

 

Ah..thank you....it was the 'Serious Stuff' Flexibond that we used (I forgot about the white lettering!)

Edited November 25, 2010 by Québec

[Keeping Up]

I used pre-mixed Evo Stick flexible tile adhesive(not contact adhesive) on all my tiling - full bathroom/behind cooker/behind and under the stove - I didn't use PVA anywhere - indeed I was specifically advised not to do so.

 

I used UniBond flexible for the grout - small tubs from B&Q etc - which is available in several colours.

 

To date I've had no problems.

 

I'd be wary with the adhesives designed for fireplaces as they're probably not very flexible.

 

Main thing I think with tiling is to use quality products - BAL do some of the best adhesives and are available at Topps.

 

These people are OK for advice on tiling.

http://www.tilersforums.co.uk/

 

Mine is the ordinary Evostick contact adhesive.

 

Saying that, I know that mine (20 years old) doesn't meet the current regs. There's wood with Masterboard fixed directly to it, then a sort of thing string mesh (not much thicker than thick cotton thread really) which presumably gives better grip, and the glue. It's worked OK so far.

[alan_fincher]

Main thing I think with tiling is to use quality products - BAL do some of the best adhesives and are available at Topps.

It was a Bal adhesive, with a Bal additive added that was recommended by, and sold by Topps - it wasn't cheap, believe me.

 

Topps have now given me another Bal adhesive, and a sealer - this after discussion by them with Bal technical department.

 

But as the replacement adhesive says it's for floor tiles, and doesn't mention wall tiles, I'm cynical.

 

My gut feel is to not try again with another conventional powdered water-mix adhesive, as I can't face another failure.

 

I assumed references to Evostick were for the normal adhesive that is a glue sniffers paradise. If anyone actually means an Evostick tiling product, and hasn't specifically said so, then please clarify!

[Québec]

I assumed references to Evostick were for the normal adhesive that is a glue sniffers paradise. If anyone actually means an Evostick tiling product, and hasn't specifically said so, then please clarify!

 

This is the stuff... definitely NOT a glue-sniffers paradise - more's the pity

 

http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/product/evo-stik/Serious-Stuff-Flexibond/23

Edited November 25, 2010 by Québec

[Guest]

Mine are held on with some form of "no more nails" type stuff; nothing posh just the cheapest, although it was a solvent type. I do remember it came from Screwfux. They have been there since 2004 and have withstood much heat.

[AndyM]

The tiles we were using are a very hard "porcelain" type, in a terracotta colour, and their dark colour probably causes them to absorb more heat than many other types or colours might.

 

So what would people use, please ?

 

I have heard of use of silicones, Plumbaflue, carpet glue & many other things.

 

So can people please say what has worked reliably for them.

 

 

I used the following silicone from Screwfix:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/75562/Sealants-Adhesives/Sealants/General-Purpose-Sealants/Vallance-General-Purpose-Silicone-Clear-295ml

I put a good spiral on the back of each black 4" square tile to fix it to the Masterboard surround, after first priming the Masterboard with PVA with a paintbrush. The tiles were spaced with normal spacers and I tiled the whole fireplace on one go.

 

I then bought a bag of black powder grout from B&Q and mixed this up to a paste with "flexible tile grout additive" (also from B&Q) - this was supposed to be diluted with water but I did not use any water, just the liquid additve neat. The tiles have stood up to extremely high temperatures - too hot to touch, there is no cracking in the grout and all the tiles are attached perfectly after three years now.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Andy

[david and julie]

Topps have now given me another Bal adhesive, and a sealer - this after discussion by them with Bal technical department.

 

I'd have more faith in the BAL techy people than the Topps guy, you said the original adhesive fixed to the Masterboard but not the tile, which would suggest it was OK - but unsuitable for Porcelain.

 

Perhaps BAL are just using belt and braces by suggesting the floor type adhesive, its probably more flexible(if its the type for going staight over t&g etc) and also suitable for underfloor heating.

 

The Evo Stick adhesive I used said it was for floors.

 

I'm hardly suprised you've lost confidence though - i'd expect Topps to pay(at least for the material) if they've given bad advice.

[MoominPapa]

But as the replacement adhesive says it's for floor tiles, and doesn't mention wall tiles, I'm cynical.

Don't be too quick. When I tiled behind our stove last year, I asked our next door neighbour at the marina, Pete, who's a professional tiler. He told me to use flexible floor tile adhesive and gave me a left-over half bag. They've not fallen off yet. Since I didn't buy the adhesive and no longer have the remains, I can't remember exactly what it was, sorry. I do recall that is didn't "grab" that well, presumably floor tile adhesive doesn't need to. I arranged temporary supports while it went off.

 

MP.