Auctions - unfair practice???

[matty40s]

Last week, there were two vacancies advertised at Stonebridge South, the first one(which tells you the second one is coming) and then the second one. This morning the second one has disappeared.

I was interested in this area , and was planning an inquiry, but now there's just the one left, and it's way too short.

 

What is the point starting an auction if it's going to get pulled?

[Lady Muck]

Ring Belinda and ask her?

[Boondock]

Sellers perogative?

[paulmorgan]

Last week, there were two vacancies advertised at Stonebridge South, the first one(which tells you the second one is coming) and then the second one. This morning the second one has disappeared.

I was interested in this area , and was planning an inquiry, but now there's just the one left, and it's way too short.

 

What is the point starting an auction if it's going to get pulled?

 

by way of Siobhan at BW Moorings:

 

-----------------

Hi Paul,

No auctions have been pulled. There was a 17.5 metre vacancy which closed on 15th but both bidders defaulted so it is going to be relisted. There is currently a 12 metre vacancy at Stonebridge South (ref 2465, auction 1 of 2) which was published on the 17th. A 17.5 metre vacancy (ref 2464, auction 2 of 2) is due to be published on Wednesday.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Siobhan

-----------------

 

@Matty, Siobhan can be reached on the mooring_vacancies.enquiries@britishwaterways.co.uk address.

 

hth

Paul

[matty40s]

Thank-you, Paul and Siobhan.

 

Not unfair practice then.

 

I shall call tommorow to attempt a negotiation.

[Jparry]

Thank-you, Paul and Siobhan.

 

Not unfair practice then.

 

I shall call tommorow to attempt a negotiation.

I thought he said it was an auction Joe

[Toddlesocks]

We were very interested in this but it has shot up surprisingly high again already compared to others in the area, still a week to go ?

Edited December 1, 2010 by Toddlesocks

[Allan(nb Albert)]

We were very interested in this but it has shot up surprisingly high again already compared to others in the area, still a week to go ?

 

I was told by a 'defaulter' some time back that he suspected BW of being the second bidder in his auction!

[Lady Muck]

in this case Id say its most definately shortage versus demand - it's the first time a mooring over 50 foot (and suitable for a widebeam at no extra charge), has come up for aucion on the London Lee since the auction system was begun. I dread to think what ours would go for should it be auctioned.

I reckon I know at least a dozen boaters who want a mooring up here.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Lady Muck

[alan_fincher]

I was told by a 'defaulter' some time back that he suspected BW of being the second bidder in his auction!

And his evidence for that was ?..............

 

It makes a good story, doesn't it, but without any proof, that is probably all it is, I'd have thought.

[Guest]

I was told by a 'defaulter' some time back that he suspected BW of being the second bidder in his auction!

 

Sounds a little like sour grapes to me - like Alan I would ask where the evidence was for this and would certainly have done so before posting the suggestion in a public forum.

[alan_fincher]

We were very interested in this but it has shot up surprisingly high again already compared to others in the area, still a week to go ?

Can anybody who understands it give a logical explanation for the jump yesterday between bids from £3505 to £6,066, (with no intervening figures) ?

 

Unless "panegyric" knew that "Letti" was prepared to autobid in excess of £6k, it seems odd that they pitched in in the £6k range themselves.

 

Or is there something about the way it works I'm not understanding ?

[matty40s]

The same happened up in Coventry last week, once BW realised that someone was taking the pee, they pulled the auction bak to the last genuine bid and quashed 6 or 7 joke, then auto-bids.

It shows the perils of auto bidding, as BW could insist that the winning bid(be it auto or not) is the succesful one, and fine the winner 10% if they then defaulted.

So I think it shows a sensible approach from BW.

[ymu]

Can anybody who understands it give a logical explanation for the jump yesterday between bids from £3505 to £6,066, (with no intervening figures) ?

 

Unless "panegyric" knew that "Letti" was prepared to autobid in excess of £6k, it seems odd that they pitched in in the £6k range themselves.

 

Or is there something about the way it works I'm not understanding ?

Got confused between bidding and auto-bidding? I don't understand why anyone would make a fixed bid instead auto-bidding. It'll only ever lead to you paying more than you needed to, or losing it for a fiver anyway.

 

This one's had one manual bidder and one auto-bidder duking it out in the last 6 minutes of the auction. The manual bidder added a few hundred to the bid every minute or so, and the auto-bidder instantly sniped them for a fiver more every time.

 

Maybe they think they can scare off the other bidder by adding large increments? Which, of course, can't work if the other bidder has already entered a maximum bid that is higher than the new bid. Why on earth they didn't just put in the maximum they were prepared to pay and let the system do it for them...

[Toddlesocks]

May be a daft question

 

Is it advisable to ignore what an auction is currently going for even if it is over your budget and just bid when ready in the hopes higher bids drop out ?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

And his evidence for that was ?..............

 

It makes a good story, doesn't it, but without any proof, that is probably all it is, I'd have thought.

 

It didn't make a good story for that very reason!

 

I don't think BW would be estimating that income from directly managed moorings will be down by £0.5m this year if they were bidding for moorings themselves.

 

I find it rather sad that BW do not take action on reserve price or scrap the moorings auction system.

 

Off the top of my head and without giving it much thought, perhaps they could convert the existing system to an ebay type "buy now".

[Guest]

Off the top of my head and without giving it much thought, perhaps they could convert the existing system to an ebay type "buy now".

 

This idea has merit...as long as the BIN price has been reasonably set....

[steve hayes]

The rate of collapse of the auction system is fairly dramatic.

 

Over the last 500 auctions the following trends can be observed

 

No bids have risen from 28% to 40%

Reserve bids have risen from 24% to 35%

Bids between reserve and guide have fallen from 25% to 12%

Bids of guide and above have fallen from 23% to 13%

 

75% of all current bids are at reserve or lower (non)

13% of all current bids meet or exceed the guide (BW Market) price

 

I am sure that this MUST tell BW that their pricing strategy is WRONG

Edited December 1, 2010 by steve hayes

[paulmorgan]

I was told by a 'defaulter' some time back that he suspected BW of being the second bidder in his auction!

Hi Allan,

I so would love to see any evidence for this. Sounds like someone's spreading a little FUD around.

 

atb,

paul

[Allan(nb Albert)]

The rate of collapse of the auction system is fairly dramatic.

 

Over the last 500 auctions the following trends can be observed

 

No bids have risen from 28% to 40%

Reserve bids have risen from 24% to 35%

Bids between reserve and guide have fallen from 25% to 12%

Bids of guide and above have fallen from 23% to 13%

 

75% of all current bids are at reserve or lower (non)

13% of all current bids meet or exceed the guide (BW Market) price

 

I am sure that this MUST tell BW that their pricing strategy is WRONG

 

Bollard mentality! Never admit you are wrong.

[paulmorgan]

Can anybody who understands it give a logical explanation for the jump yesterday between bids from £3505 to £6,066, (with no intervening figures) ?

 

Unless "panegyric" knew that "Letti" was prepared to autobid in excess of £6k, it seems odd that they pitched in in the £6k range themselves.

 

Or is there something about the way it works I'm not understanding ?

Hi Alan,

I should be able to explain it after the auction has finished. I won't say anything whilst it is still running. I hope you can appreciate that.

 

atb,

Paul

[paulmorgan]

Got confused between bidding and auto-bidding? I don't understand why anyone would make a fixed bid instead auto-bidding. It'll only ever lead to you paying more than you needed to, or losing it for a fiver anyway.

Hi ymu,

Some people like having the option of just submitting the amount that is the next accepted price in the auction. I guess they might not fully trust the system to do it for them? I think sometimes, it's also down to not reading the FAQ's / T&C's and understanding what the system can do and what is expected of them in taking part in the bidding process. I don't think auctions on the internet have quite achieved the same mindset that someone might have when at a live auction.

 

 

This one's had one manual bidder and one auto-bidder duking it out in the last 6 minutes of the auction. The manual bidder added a few hundred to the bid every minute or so, and the auto-bidder instantly sniped them for a fiver more every time.

 

Maybe they think they can scare off the other bidder by adding large increments? Which, of course, can't work if the other bidder has already entered a maximum bid that is higher than the new bid. Why on earth they didn't just put in the maximum they were prepared to pay and let the system do it for them...

I wonder if they read the FAQ's?

 

atb,

Paul

 

May be a daft question

 

Is it advisable to ignore what an auction is currently going for even if it is over your budget and just bid when ready in the hopes higher bids drop out ?

Hi Toddlesocks (great name btw),

I wouldn't say it is advisable, but the fact is, if you are the second highest bidder and the winning bidder defaults, then you would be offered the chance to take up the vacancy at the price you bid. Obviously, there is a massive risk that you wouldn't get the mooring you were after, but you might operate like that in the hope that the auction you have bid on eventually goes to you.

 

NOTE: it is also worth bearing in mind that BW advises caution when bidding on more than one auction at the same time. IF you win both, you may be liable for a default fee on the one you do not take up.

 

I DO advise that you read these:

FAQ's and T&C's

 

atb,

Paul

[Dominic M]

Now that it is an open auction (as opposed to undisclosed tenders) I can't see anything wrong with this system. The failure is the reserve price. If not met (correct me if I am wrong) the mooring does not go to the highest, or any, bidder. What then happens to that mooring?

 

Would it not be better if all BW moorings were contracted out to the private sector?

[alan_fincher]

The failure is the reserve price. If not met (correct me if I am wrong) the mooring does not go to the highest, or any, bidder. What then happens to that mooring?

They will generally put it up for auction again at some later date. The guide and reserve will be unaltered, (unless BW mooring prices have risen in the interim, when it will then reflect this), and generally it remains described exactly as before.

 

The interval as to how long before re-advertised seems fairly random.

 

In many cases if they did not let the first time, then they don't the next time either, and they go round several cycles, during which time they stand vacant, bringing in no income to BW.

 

I have followed GU moorings for a while, and the slump in interest in most of them is staggering. BW really do need to reflect that when they started people were often prepared to pay over "guide", but are now not even prepared to pay 75% "reserve".

 

Locally to us, many people are now giving up marina moorings to join the local "continuous" cruisers. We are seeing it time and time again.

[Strads]

Its an intersting set of observations that we may have reached a curent "peak" price for BW lineside moorings - accepting that certain geographies or particular moorings will have an appeal to a limited group of boaters - they may pay a premium if you like for that spot because it suits them, but like most they will have a maximum budget that they want to pay, the attraction curve diminishes as the price rises etc.

 

Likewise I have noted that BWML are also advertising residential and leiseure moorings as immediately available at Apsley, packet boat and engineers wharf, and not just the odd one it seems. 2 years ago they had modest waiting lists - but price rises of 9% (from memory the year we left) and similar above inflation rises, (justified as providing funds for improvements that Ive not seen on return visits) shows that they are / were trying to MAX out what revenue they could.

 

It most cases we should applaud any company for trying to achieve maximum revenue, that i the mantra for business succes, HOWEVER

 

This combined with many of us having less free cash available (inflation from rising fuel prices etc) means we all look for better value and often lower costs so we can continue boating/living..

 

SO if you so agitate your customer base that they vote to leave, that your revenues fall, more than expected you have an own goal of diminishing returns and falling revenues - = lack of infrastructure growth.

 

BW like many has its "fixed" costs, variables wages/consumables (elec/phones/offices) and

what is has left it applies to the works required and juggles the budget to achieve a blend of must fixes to should do's to nice to do's...

 

Soap Box parked off a brew