Well Known Hull manufacturers

[NB Alnwick]

I have to admit that to try and narrow down the choices available when you can only search on the net and have little or no opportunity to look at a boat and think "that is what I am looking for" without the opportunity to ask the owner who the builder is (or look for a name on the hull)

It is also worth pointing out that there are some very good quality boats built by boatbuilders who maybe only ever produce one a year (if they get the time!) Their names as boat builders are unlikely to feature as a sub category on a brokerage site because the few boats these people build rarely change hands either.

Our boat is a Pinder - I think I might liken it to a modern Volvo - it is very solidly built with attention to quality and yet there are no frills. As a clone weekend/ holiday boat it does everything we could possibly want or need and is very comfortable.

 

It is however not quite what we want long term and when the time comes that we can do the 6 months on board and 6 months ashore we will probably be looking for a hot rod! Yes we want the trad look with the nice paintowrk and engine room with a trad engine going dunk dunk dunk but we also want it low maintenance and relaibility

Perhaps what we are looking for is the boating equivalent of a Morgan? (with or without washers)

 

Having owned two Morgan's I cannot imagine how anyone could compare them with a narrow boat - how many narrow boats do you know that require complete rebuild after only five years of all year round, all weather, use. The first one I had, a 1966 4/4 Series V Competition Model, needed major welding to the chassis in 1971 followed by a complete new ash frame, new door skins, a complete re-trim and several new body panels - all due to the corrosive mix of soggy Ash framing, aluminium, steel, leather and cotton wool! And just don't ask about the number of rebuilds the Ford engine needed! The fact that I raced, rallied and trialled it may have contributed to its early demise . . .

 

That's me at Silverstone in 1973!

[MikeV]

Boats cannot really be compared to cars because unlike modern cars boats are usually individually built to incorporate the customer's personal and individual requirements.

I may be wrong, but as the OP asked us to "rate well known hull manufacturers as motor car equivalents" I'd take that to mean the steelwork from the gunwale downwards. Whilst any good builder will offer variations on a theme I would say that many have a standard hull design. Reeves, as an example, offer a standard specification at a price with a list of optional extras, although they are also capable of doing bespoke work.

 

I think even when a more bespoke hull has been specified the pedigree of the builder is a good initial guide to the quality of the fabrication. With experience I think it is quite easy to spot hulls that have been well constructed, although if I were to buy another boat I would still employ a surveyor to check my assessment.

 

I'd agree that above the gunwale the cabin will be very bespoke depending on trad/semi/cruiser, side/stern hatch style and window layouts, which will need to match with the fitout.

[alan_fincher]

I have likened Reeves to being the "Volvo" of the boat shell building world. Solidly constructed with good safety features but lacking the fine lines and detailing of some of the names mentioned above.

 

But haven't all Volvos just been Fords for some years now ?

 

Alan

 

(Volvo Ford owner!).

Edited September 26, 2010 by alan_fincher

[cheshire~rose]

You see what you have started now???

 

There we are cruising along and we spot a particularly desirable boat called Zephyr. Having eyed its lines and beautiful paintwork up and given each other a knowing look as we passed Dave pointed out that it was only about 50' and so was likely to be a tad smaller than what we would ideally want.

 

On we cruise and through a lock then at tickover past a line of permanent moorings. There was a gap in the line of boats with a sign indicating it was the private mooring - the sign read "Zodiac 70ft"

 

Well I was well confused because there was no way that lovely boat we passed was a 70 footer and I said as much to Dave who gave me a thoroughly confused look. Then it dawned on me - I have the right manufacturer (Ford) but the wrong model - Zodiac not Zephyr

 

Having owned two Morgan's I cannot imagine how anyone could compare them with a narrow boat - how many narrow boats do you know that require complete rebuild after only five years of all year round, all weather, use. The first one I had, a 1966 4/4 Series V Competition Model, needed major welding to the chassis in 1971 followed by a complete new ash frame, new door skins, a complete re-trim and several new body panels - all due to the corrosive mix of soggy Ash framing, aluminium, steel, leather and cotton wool! And just don't ask about the number of rebuilds the Ford engine needed! The fact that I raced, rallied and trialled it may have contributed to its early demise . . .

 

That's me at Silverstone in 1973!

 

Of course you are correct - the problem was I was trying to think of a traditionally built car that is still made today - what I think we would really end up with would be a hot rod.

If I had to liken Alnwick to a road vehicle then it would be a Thames (400e) pick up truck we once built with a mid mounted 4.5ltr Daimler engine - but then that does not help the OP because he is unfamiliar with Alnwick and the rest of the forum members are equally as unfamilar with the Thames we built

[Guest]

It has been long recognised and an undisputed scientific fact that Colecraft shells are the BMW equivalent in vehicle terms - hence we own both -

 

as if to confirm this, both have pram hoods -

 

Our BMW

 

 

Our boat

 

[DandV]

It has been long recognised and an undisputed scientific fact that Colecraft shells are the BMW equivalent in vehicle terms - hence we own both -

 

as if to confirm this, both have pram hoods -

 

Our BMW Our boat

 

Envious of Both!

 

Thanks for your replies.

I was just trying to get a handle on whether there is any significant quality variations on the bare shells from various manufacturers which may less apparent by preliminary inspection, rather then the visible features. Particularly any known weaknesses structural, or corrosion problems peculiar to certain hulls.

My experience is that in steelwork fabrication the detailing can have considerable influence in both corrosion resistance and stress concentration.

What I am getting though is the impression that the boats are more like houses then cars, in that the actual shell builder is probably less important then subcontractor trades, the electrical specifier and.installer, the plumbing specifier and installer,and the joiner-cabinet maker.

The surface stuff can be easily changed but not so the base structure and imbedded services.

And as with a house the individual layout and feature set are of paramount importance.

 

Our plan is:

As close to our time of departure to the UK as possible (and continue to update this during the search) we would make a list of boats for sale of interest based on their published specification, photos, and layout.

 

Once in the UK arrange an intense viewing itinerary to reduce this to a very short list and then subject the survivors to much increased scrutiny before finally placing an offer on one subject to satisfactory professional survey.

 

Comments and suggestions on the process would be appreciated.

 

By the way I do appreciate those who have a love for preserving and keeping in use the classic boats and classic engines. Hence my involvement with a 116year old restored racing yacht. Great to sail with at least the 11 crew but not that comfortable on overnights in her restored 19thC accommodation.

 

Cheers Don

[Guest]

Actually I think your shell builder is more important than 'sub-contractor trades' as you put it -

 

you can change a kitchen or bathroom but you can't change your shell unless you buy a new one.

[DandV]

Played with the search function some more and found the thread entitled "Boat Valuation -where is the base line" started 1 May this year which covered the ground of my original question using the same analogies so thanks everybody and my apologies for recovering old ground.

 

Cheers and thanks everybody for your help

 

Don

[wrigglefingers]

Hello Don,

 

I hate to tell you this but who the shell fabricator is of paramount importance. It not only affects the resale value but also the longevity of the hull. How the steel is handled, bent, stressed, folded and welded and ground all have a critical effect on the hull that may not be apparent immediately but will become more obvious as the boat ages. You could add to that whether the hull been shot-blasted or simply linished and who's put the paint on. The depreciation of the boat will be affected significantly over time whereas the fit-out, as have been pointed out, can be replaced. A carefully chosen shell will swim more effectively, corrode less and look better, thus leading to you, the owner, looking after her more effectively. A Fancy-Dan fitout would be nice, but it's not exactly critical, more a matter of taste and depth of pocket!

 

Jill

[DandV]

Ok I am impressionable, There appears to be one camp that the hull is just a steel tube and that evaluation should be made on the current condition of that tube and another camp that some builders build better hulls, probably reflected in a higher initial price but this build quality will continue to provide a more durable hull, and for those "in the know" a more favorable resale price. I am currently in the transition towards being "in The know" hence the questions. What interests me primarily is functionality and durability ahead of pure aesthetics although even I draw the line against transom stern cruiser hulls in spite of the extra room on the aft deck.

 

Cheers and thanks for your inputs.

 

Don

Edited September 28, 2010 by DandV

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

although even I draw the line against transom stern cruiser hulls in spite of the extra room on the aft deck.

 

Cheers and thanks for your inputs.

 

Don

Hey, don't knock it 'til you've tried it

 

Richard

[DandV]

At this stage our preference is a cruiser stern I just don,t like the appearance of those cut-off square ones and those jutting out corners could give some very abrupt stops instead of a deflection during a misjudged astern manoeuvre. Just think of how much extra foredeck room would be available with a cutoff square barge bow, like on house boats snd what they would do to the skill levels of steerers, get slightly out of line entering a lock and bang an abrupt stop. would add rapidly to the learning process.

 

Cheers Don

[RLWP]

At this stage our preference is a cruiser stern I just don,t like the appearance of those cut-off square ones

 

<snip>

 

Cheers Don

 

Ahh, now I understand. Yes, that's fine, I have exactly the same prejudice. You are clearly a man of good taste

 

Richard

[wrigglefingers]

Ahh, now I understand. Yes, that's fine, I have exactly the same prejudice. You are clearly a man of good taste

 

Richard

 

No chance of us recommending a Springer to you then? Much maligned and unfairly so ...

[RLWP]

No chance of us recommending a Springer to you then? Much maligned and unfairly so ...

 

I have been known to be serially inconsistent...

 

Richard

[DandV]

No chance of us recommending a Springer to you then? Much maligned and unfairly so ...

Our current parameters are less the ten years old although one or two 11-12 year old boats currently for sale would be on our "to see" list based and the published sales data. In three years time that would rule out any Springers.

What we would be looking for is a comfortable reliable boat and its systems that at the end of the two (or three) seasons we can list with one of the big brokerages using their expertise to set a very realistic price for a relatively quick straight forward sale. We would settle for a Ford/Vauxhill but probably prefer a Toyota and envy the Mercedes. Dont need the high acceleration and superior cornering abilities of the Audi but do appreciate superior steering. Just No Allegros or Marinas or Hillmans!

 

Cheers Don

[wrigglefingers]

<snip> Just No .... Marinas ....!

 

No that would be wise. Buying a watery basin with random boats floating in it would be rash if you've not got a boat of your own to put in it.

[Chertsey]

Volvo 240 estate and a big Woolwich.... Both look like hulking beasts but drive like a dream.

[Neil TNC]

Volvo 240 estate and a big Woolwich.... Both look like hulking beasts but drive like a dream.

 

But do you wear a trilby?

[soldthehouse]

As I have said earlier we are looking at purchasing a 2plus 2 berth narrowboat in a couple of years time for two or perhaps three years of six months cruising, six months away six months cruising etc .

Current indications is that a purchase budget of 35000-45000GBP should give a sensible reliable "clonecraft" 5 to 10 years old 45 to 60ft long.

This is a bit cheeky but it would be helpful to us if forum members could rate well known hull manufacturers as motor car equivalents say Ford, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes.

Liverpool Boats = Ford equivalent?

 

Cheers Don & Val

They are all just big steel skips when it comes down to it some less ugly than others. [oops there I go again]

[Morat]

I haven't quite sussed it out yet but sometimes when I do a search it only looks at the new forum.

there are several years of archives tucked away. keep trying!

 

 

what did they do, take a Nissan and put a Volvovovovovovo badge on it?

 

Volvos look better with six axles anyway, which is where my kids invented the multi syllable name for them.

I was just thinking that myself. That's a 350z with a new name!

[DandV]

I really appreciate the Alvis's and Armstrong Siddeleys (or perhaps should they be Scammells or even Bedfords/Thames Traders)and "the proper engines" of the waterways and the efforts of their enthusiast owners to keep them active.

They are like vintage cars, steam railways, and in my case veteran sailing yachts, a treasure in their own right. They give their current operators and hopefully a lot of others a great deal of pleasure, and their efforts keep heritage alive for the future to maintain its links to the past. Well done - however in this case we are just looking for a canal boat that exploits modern knowledge. Tomorrow I am off racing on a yacht that requires at least seven people just to pull the mainsail up to then spend three hours zig-zaging around the harbour when a modern catamaran with a third of the crew would do the same course in half the time, and Phylis onNaughty Cal would do it in a few minutes but she would have to obey the inner harbour speed limits - we dont.

 

Cheers Don

[wrigglefingers]

<snip> ... and Phylis onNaughty Cal would do it in a few minutes but she would have to obey the inner harbour speed limits - we dont.

 

Cheers Don

 

Eh? Eh? Since when has Phylis ever observed a speed limit to our knowledge?