1957 'photo. Location please

[bargeeboy]

These pics were found recently and I am at a loss to identify the location.

 

The 3 main choices I have visited and discounted.

 

The latest being top of Hanwell but now discounted although the chimneys match

 

Any suggestions ?

 

[Neil TNC]

These pics were found recently and I am at a loss to identify the location.

 

The 3 main choices I have visited and discounted.

 

The latest being top of Hanwell but now discounted although the chimneys match

 

Any suggestions ?

 

 

 

I think the top one is Hanwell Top Lock No92.

The chimneys match, so does the front bay window and the rear extension.

The prefab concrete hut is beside the lock.

You can see St Bernards wall and buildings to the left below the lock as well as the large brewery building, with top skylight.

Telegraph poles are still extant.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Neil Arlidge

[bargeeboy]

I think the top one is Hanwell Top Lock No92.

The chimneys match, so does the front bay window and the rear extension.

The prefab concrete hut is beside the lock.

You can see St Bernards wall and buildings to the left below the lock as well as the large brewery building, with top skylight.

Telegraph poles are still extant.

 

I went there 3 weeks ago and was confused by the extention to the house that appear to be earlier than 1957.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2010 by bargeeboy

[GUMPY]

I went there 3 weeks ago and was confused by the extention to the house that appear to be earlier than 1957.

 

Except that is not the top of Hanwell in the second set of photos!

But the top of Norwood 2

Hanwell is two locks down from that past 3 bridges and does match the first set of pictures.

see here from google street view

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=hanwell+uk&sll=37.926868,-91.669922&sspn=48.473355,76.728516&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Hanwell,+Greater+London,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.50531,-0.352807&spn=0.00947,0.018733&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.504426,-0.355437&panoid=wwZquwrck7330-43bokKaA&cbp=12,65.93,,3,0.23

Edited September 16, 2010 by idleness

[Derek R.]

Wrong lock in the flight?

 

Looking at GoogleMaps, you will see the top lock has a cottage to the left. The location of the house in Bargeeboy's '57 shot is to the right, but closer than that of the extended house at the top lock in the up to date shots, and an aerial shows the house at the top set far back.

 

Now go down to the next lock in the flight. There is a house on the right close to the lock with the right number of chimney stacks in the right place, also an extension at the back. There is no bridge to be seen in the '57 shot first view which matches. The second '57 shot looking back shows a bridge, and that matches though a reconstructed one. The building in the distance may well be part of the Asylum as was. Not sure I can see any bay window, and there seems to be an extension at the far side of the house in the '57 shot which is not seen in the up to date.

 

Have a look.

 

Second Lock down.

 

Ah yes - Julian's right - third lock down, with Windmill Lane bridge behind. (Next lock down has no house.)

Edited September 16, 2010 by Derek R.

[alan_fincher]

Except that is not the top of Hanwell in the second set of photos!

But the top of Norwood 2

Hanwell is two locks down from that past 3 bridges and does match the first set of pictures.

This is an area where I suffer the greatest of confusions!

 

To me it would seem logical that there are (going south), two "Norwood" locks, (numbers 90 and 91), followed by (after that longer pound), 6 "Hanwell. (92 to 97).

 

However that is definitely NOT how the lockside signs now identify them.

 

Whilst the first one you come to (90) is "Norwool Top", the next one, (91, before you get to the main flight of 6), is signed as "Hanwell Lock 91".

 

So these days BW seem to think they have one Norwood and 7 Hanwell locks. More recent (new format) Nicholson's now repeat that idea, although the older ones show only 6 locks as Hanwell. (Not helped by some editions of Nicholsons showing the incorrect number of locks overall - one missed in the maps IIRC).

 

So anybody can I think be excused from calling lock 91 (at Least) either Norwood or Hanwell. BW now seem to think it's part of Hanwell.

[GUMPY]

This is an area where I suffer the greatest of confusions!

 

snip

 

So anybody can I think be excused from calling lock 91 (at Least) either Norwood or Hanwell. BW now seem to think it's part of Hanwell.

 

No confusion here

Always has been Norwood 2 and then Hanwell

Just as further up it will always be Five Paddle lock and not Home Park and loads more that have new names between there and the summit.

 

Since when did BW get the naming right......

Edited September 16, 2010 by idleness

[LEO]

Hi,

 

There may have been a lock cottage next to lock 91, not sure when this was demolished but BW tried to sell the site in a 1992 property auction, not sure if it sold and it's probably overgrown now.

 

Leo

[alan_fincher]

"Foxy's Island Walks" is sometimes a useful resource for Grand Union lock and bridge photos.

 

Here is the page that covers Norwood and Hanwell, (not sure I can link to individual photos).

 

Foxysislandwalks link

 

Some of the house at Hanwell Lock 92 (top of the grouped 6), is shown, with some chimney detail, but nowt that shows the extensions. All the photo's I've taken at hanwell tend to be lower down I think, mainly near the surviving St Joseph's buildings. I don't think I've photographed Lock 92.

 

EDITED: As link failed to insert for some reason.

Edited September 16, 2010 by alan_fincher

[alan_fincher]

No confusion here

Always has been Norwood 2 and then Hanwell

But if that's not what the signs say, or what the guides say, you can't really be surprised if people who don't know this stretch of canal intimately from years gone past get it "wrong", can you?

 

I must admit that I have always, (since the 70s) known lock 70 as "Home Park", and only became aware of the working boatman's "Five Paddle" much more recently. I'm not convinced the canal companies ever knew it as such, any more than some of the other locks that have boater name alternatives.

 

The one I think they have definitely changed is 71, formerly "Home Park Mill" to me. Never heard it called by it's current name of "North Grove" until recent years. Where did that come from, I wonder ?

[bargeeboy]

I got it wrong SORRY

 

I went to Norwood Top

 

 

It is actually Hanwell top in the 1957 pic !! Thank you idleness . It was raining and I was parked on yellow lines so did not walk down !

 

FIVE PADDLE

 

I have always know it as that and was surprised when the sign Home Park appearsed

 

I can not see why they would need it but I was told there was a paddle on towpath side to discharge into the stream under the towpath. I have been told that the paddle hole can be seen in the brickwork but I have not seen it !

 

NORTH GROVE

 

Always known as Hunton Change Lock from Steamer days 3 hr 20 between change locks ! Cowley being the next before London.

Edited September 16, 2010 by bargeeboy

[alan_fincher]

Do you have any story to go with the pictures, please ?

 

It seems an unusual place for so many pairs to be there, unless there was some kind of unplanned stoppage, possibly ?

 

 

 

1974 edition of "The Canals Book" shows lock 70 as "Home Park", so if it's a "wrong" renaming, it's been a mistake people have made for at least 36 years.

 

Also shows 71 as "Home Park Farm" rather than the "North Grove" name it has acquired at some stage.

[Keeping Up]

No confusion here

Always has been Norwood 2 and then Hanwell

Just as further up it will always be Five Paddle lock and not Home Park and loads more that have new names between there and the summit.

 

Since when did BW get the naming right......

 

Just like further up the canal where there are/were 2 Whilton locks followed by 5 Buckby locks

[Derek R.]

I got it wrong SORRY

 

I went to Norwood Top

 

Not Hanwell top and I meant Norweood top in my original posting !

 

It is actually Norwood top in the 1957 pic !! Thank you idleness . It was raining and I was parked on yellow lines so did not walk down !

 

FIVE PADDLE

 

I have always know it as that and was surprised when the sign Home Park appearsed

 

I can not see why they would need it but I was told there was a paddle on towpath side to discharge into the stream under the towpath. I have been told that the paddle hole can be seen in the brickwork but I have not seen it !

 

NORTH GROVE

 

Always known as Hunton Change Lock from Steamer days 3 hr 20 between change locks ! Cowley being the next before London.

 

I was told the fifth paddle was to feed the Cress beds. But what the circumstances around that may have been is not known to me. There are Cress beds all the way down from the summit.

 

But now there seems to be some confusion over that 1957 shot. Scrub that - me getting confused over the confusion! It does look like Hanwell top, not Norwood top. Norwood Top is lock 90 by Glade Lane bridge which is not in evidence in the '57 shot. Hanwell Top is 92 just down from Windmill bridge. That link Alan put up to Foxy's http://www.foxysislandwalks.co.uk/Kings_Langley-Brentford.html (scroll down for the thumbnail and click to expand) shows the cottage by lock 92 with the bay window quite clear. That's the lock in the 1957 photo, at least, I'll put a £1 on it.

 

Curiosity - why is Windmill bridge called 'Three Bridges'? There are three thouroughfares; rail; water; and road, but only two bridges carrying two over the third?

Edited September 16, 2010 by Derek R.

[Derek R.]

Do you have any story to go with the pictures, please ?

 

It seems an unusual place for so many pairs to be there, unless there was some kind of unplanned stoppage, possibly ?

 

Exhibition of pugilistic talents?

 

 

 

 

1974 edition of "The Canals Book" shows lock 70 as "Home Park", so if it's a "wrong" renaming, it's been a mistake people have made for at least 36 years.

 

Also shows 71 as "Home Park Farm" rather than the "North Grove" name it has acquired at some stage.

 

Don't know where some of these names spring from, always been 'Change' to me, and Home Park Mill 'Five Paddle', there there was a paper mill adjacent. Certainly not named after the Ovaltine farms, that's an interesting history in itself.

 

Derek

[mykaskin]

Curiosity - why is Windmill bridge called 'Three Bridges'? There are three thouroughfares; rail; water; and road, but only two bridges carrying two over the third?

 

I suspect a corruption of this advert:

From: http://nbtortoise.blogspot.com/2009/11/lyons-tea-three-bridges-advert.html

 

Three ways, three bridges... There is also a strut over the railway which looks like a bridge, and an aqueduct to the unintiated would be a bridge with water in it!

 

Mike

Edited September 16, 2010 by mykaskin

[bargeeboy]

Is there a stream underneath the railway 'bridge' ?

[Derek R.]

Yep! That would count as three. Looks just supportive of the cutting walls, but a bridge nonetheless.

 

Have to put the kettle on now.

[Derek R.]

Is there a stream underneath the railway 'bridge' ?

 

The River Brent would be the nearest water course, and by nature all would flow into that, and it's a bit further North. But at that point I reckon the railway would be the lowest point - though trackside drainage may have led to some culverting at some point. On site visit would show more, but unless there was a deep culvert like a sewer maybe, probably not an open stream. (Nice try Malc!)