Hole in hot water cylinder

[monty]

Hi all,

 

I have just discovered a pin hole near the top of my hot water cylinder

 

is this repairable?

 

or is there a way i can isolate the cylinder to allow me to run the engine still until i can repair/replace without the water coming out of the pin hole

 

Its a 1.5 BMC engine with 2 hoses going from the engine into the cylinder and then 2 hoses with stop cocks going out of the cylinder to my domestic water

 

If i turned these stop cocks off would that work?

 

thanks for any replies

 

Monty

[jenlyn]

Hi all,

 

I have just discovered a pin hole near the top of my hot water cylinder

 

is this repairable?

 

or is there a way i can isolate the cylinder to allow me to run the engine still until i can repair/replace without the water coming out of the pin hole

 

Its a 1.5 BMC engine with 2 hoses going from the engine into the cylinder and then 2 hoses with stop cocks going out of the cylinder to my domestic water

 

If i turned these stop cocks off would that work?

 

thanks for any replies

 

Monty

 

get to halfords if you can, they sell a white putty like substance that will sort that for you . . . . dont go smoking it tho, tastes horrid, lol

 

 

get to halfords if you can, they sell a white putty like substance that will sort that for you . . . . dont go smoking it tho, tastes horrid, lol

 

i just noticed your in uxbridge, i am a swell, where bouts you mooored?

[Odana]

I had the same thing. Got it soldered, but as it's under pressure it was squirting again in a few months. I ended up replacing the tank, but I'm sure there might be ways of avoiding this, at least for a while.

 

Check what your tank is sitting on - turned out mine was on the bilge floor on a damp piece of rubber, and whenever the bilge had water in my tank was apparently acting as a very expensive anode

[Chris G]

Hi all,

 

I have just discovered a pin hole near the top of my hot water cylinder

 

is this repairable?

 

or is there a way i can isolate the cylinder to allow me to run the engine still until i can repair/replace without the water coming out of the pin hole

 

Its a 1.5 BMC engine with 2 hoses going from the engine into the cylinder and then 2 hoses with stop cocks going out of the cylinder to my domestic water

 

If i turned these stop cocks off would that work?

 

thanks for any replies

 

Monty

 

Unless the heating coil inside the calorifier is leaking, the water coming out of the pin hole is 'domestic' water, pressurised by your domestic water pump. You don't need to isolate the engine from the heating coil. If you want to stop the leak you need to cut of the cold feed to the calorifier, but then you won't have any domestic hot water!!

[monty]

Unless the heating coil inside the calorifier is leaking, the water coming out of the pin hole is 'domestic' water, pressurised by your domestic water pump. You don't need to isolate the engine from the heating coil. If you want to stop the leak you need to cut of the cold feed to the calorifier, but then you won't have any domestic hot water!!

 

Thanks for your replies

 

I will turn the cold water feed off so i can run my engine without water spurting everywhere until i can fix the problem properly.

 

Jenlyn i am normally at Denham marina but have a weeks hols at the moment and am at Harefield, do you no what the stuff is called at Halfords?

 

thanks

 

Monty

[Guest]

Unless the heating coil inside the calorifier is leaking, the water coming out of the pin hole is 'domestic' water, pressurised by your domestic water pump. You don't need to isolate the engine from the heating coil. If you want to stop the leak you need to cut of the cold feed to the calorifier, but then you won't have any domestic hot water!!

The pressure inside the calorifier will increase as the engine heats it up? I think it would need draining down to avoid this, or leave a hot tap open of course.

 

I think "JB Weld" would be the thing

 

link

Edited May 3, 2010 by Guest

[ditchcrawler]

Hi all,

 

I have just discovered a pin hole near the top of my hot water cylinder

 

is this repairable?

 

or is there a way i can isolate the cylinder to allow me to run the engine still until i can repair/replace without the water coming out of the pin hole

 

Its a 1.5 BMC engine with 2 hoses going from the engine into the cylinder and then 2 hoses with stop cocks going out of the cylinder to my domestic water

 

If i turned these stop cocks off would that work?

 

thanks for any replies

 

Monty

The best thing to do IMO would be to get it Silver Soldered. Anyone who repairs refrigeration units should be able to for you.

[bottle]

and start saving for a replacement.

[jenlyn]

Thanks for your replies

 

I will turn the cold water feed off so i can run my engine without water spurting everywhere until i can fix the problem properly.

 

Jenlyn i am normally at Denham marina but have a weeks hols at the moment and am at Harefield, do you no what the stuff is called at Halfords?

 

thanks

 

Monty

 

i have some here, cant remember the name of it tho, have used it on radiators b4, will stop your leak, i do know that, i will try to drop it up to you tmoz, are you near kim on his widebeam?

[blackrose]

This happened to a friend of mine and I think he got the calorifier repair brazed rather than soldered. That was a couple of years ago and he hasn't had any further problems with it. The wet insulation that you pull off can be replaced with foam from a can afterwards.

Edited May 4, 2010 by blackrose

[ChrisPy]

The best thing to do IMO would be to get it Silver Soldered. Anyone who repairs refrigeration units should be able to for you.

........... or repairs car radiators (if you can persuade him to leave the workshop)

[monty]

........... or repairs car radiators (if you can persuade him to leave the workshop)

Thanks for replies

 

So in the mean time to allow me to run the engine & move i must:

 

turn the cold feed off the water cylinder

 

leave the hot feed open

 

leave the hot tap on open

 

& turn my water pump off

[alan_fincher]

& turn my water pump off

If you have any valve that turns off the cold fresh-water feed to the cylinder, I can see no reason then why your water pump can't be left switched on, so you still have working cold taps, (and possibly loo, if connected to the domestic water supply).

 

The issue would be if there is no valve in the line feeding the cold water into the calorifier.

[monty]

i have some here, cant remember the name of it tho, have used it on radiators b4, will stop your leak, i do know that, i will try to drop it up to you tmoz, are you near kim on his widebeam?

 

Thanks Jenlyn

 

i have sent you a message with me phone number if you are about this way

 

i will be here till Friday, if not i no your boat i will see around Uxbridge

 

 

thanks again

[Andy Woods]

Had similar problem, solved thus...

Drain the system.

Assuming you have an immersion heater fitted, take it out.

Dry and clean the inside of the cylinder around the pinhole via the immersion mounting hole.

Make a 'patch' from any old bit of cloth thoroughly smeared in silicone sealant. stick this to the inside of the cylinder covering the pinhole. Wiggle it a bit to ensure good coverage of the silicone. Leave overnight to cure.

Rebuild and re-fill system. The water pressure pushes the patch onto the hole. Job done.

This method works for a 90mm crack in my cylinder, stands up to vibration and expansion and best of all costs next to nothing and can be done in-situ.

[monty]

Had similar problem, solved thus...

Drain the system.

Assuming you have an immersion heater fitted, take it out.

Dry and clean the inside of the cylinder around the pinhole via the immersion mounting hole.

Make a 'patch' from any old bit of cloth thoroughly smeared in silicone sealant. stick this to the inside of the cylinder covering the pinhole. Wiggle it a bit to ensure good coverage of the silicone. Leave overnight to cure.

Rebuild and re-fill system. The water pressure pushes the patch onto the hole. Job done.

This method works for a 90mm crack in my cylinder, stands up to vibration and expansion and best of all costs next to nothing and can be done in-situ.

 

Thanks for all your thoughts

 

I have managed to get the leak down to a dribble now thanks to Jenlyns putty(thank you) but not fixed completely,

 

was wondering how effective/easy it would be to silver solder or braze?

 

and if anyone has done this,how you do it and what would i need,

 

also how effective JB weld is

 

thanks for any replies

 

Monty

[ChrisPy]

was wondering how effective/easy it would be to silver solder or braze?

er ..... we already suggested a frdge repairer or a radiator repairer. it isn't something you can learn overnight from an instruction book.

[graymondo]

Hi Monty,

 

Yes this can be repaired I have done it to domestic cylinders in the past. Drain the cylinder and remove any material or item that may be affected by heat or can ignite (have your fire extinguisher handy just in case). Thoroughly clean around the pinhole with wire wool, smear with self cleaning flux, heat up with pencil torch until the copper changes colour and drip on some end feed solder over the pinhole. If you don't feel confident to do it ask a good plumber or heating engineer.

 

G

Edited May 26, 2010 by graymondo

[monty]

Hi Monty,

 

Yes this can be repaired I have done it to domestic cylinders in the past. Drain the cylinder and remove any material or item that may be affected by heat or can ignite (have your fire extinguisher handy just in case). Thoroughly clean around the pinhole with wire wool, smear with self cleaning flux, heat up with pencil torch until the copper changes colour and drip on some end feed solder over the pinhole. If you don't feel confident to do it ask a good plumber or heating engineer.

 

G

 

Thank you

 

Thank you

 

Is this just ordinary solder?

[Natalie Graham]

Is the pressure in a hot water cylinder really that high as to burst a properly made soft-soldered repair? After all, Yorkshire joints have been used on plumbing and gas installations for years.

[alan_fincher]

Is the pressure in a hot water cylinder really that high as to burst a properly made soft-soldered repair? After all, Yorkshire joints have been used on plumbing and gas installations for years.

Not really the same, I'd say.

 

Soldered pipe fittings of any type are not trying to hold back the pressure on their own, more to "glue" together the surfaces that actually are, so as to form a thick sandwich.

 

Unless water can push it's way along the join, which would normally involve penetrating or blowing out a fair amount of solder.

 

Also bat "hot water tanks" are usually a lot more pressurised than domestic ones. Few boat pumps operate at less than 2 bar (circa 30 psi), and many at 3 bar (circa 45 psi), even before the water is heated. Getting it hot can push that pressure even higher, and a typical pressure relief valve does open sometimes, if there is no added pressure vessel, at which point you are at perhaps 4 bar (circa 60 psi).

 

Not really surprising that calorifiers seem to fail more often than domestic hot water tanks, many of which are at no more pressure than the difference in water height between an unsealed cold water tank in the loft, and wherever the hot cylinder is located.

 

Domestic gas, or boat gas, (other than before the regulator) are at remarkably low pressures - not that you are allowed to solder the joints on boat gas pipes anyway......

[Billypownall]

Hi all,

 

I have just discovered a pin hole near the top of my hot water cylinder

 

is this repairable?

 

or is there a way i can isolate the cylinder to allow me to run the engine still until i can repair/replace without the water coming out of the pin hole

 

Its a 1.5 BMC engine with 2 hoses going from the engine into the cylinder and then 2 hoses with stop cocks going out of the cylinder to my domestic water

 

If i turned these stop cocks off would that work?

 

thanks for any replies

 

Monty

 

 

Hi all,

 

I have just discovered a pin hole near the top of my hot water cylinder

 

is this repairable?

 

or is there a way i can isolate the cylinder to allow me to run the engine still until i can repair/replace without the water coming out of the pin hole

 

Its a 1.5 BMC engine with 2 hoses going from the engine into the cylinder and then 2 hoses with stop cocks going out of the cylinder to my domestic water

 

If i turned these stop cocks off would that work?

 

thanks for any replies

 

Monty

I would try a small self tapper with a fibre washer in the pinhole. Drill the pinhle out slightly if the self tapper wont go in. Then as an added precaution cover the self tapper with araldite.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Billypownall

[monty]

I would try a small self tapper with a fibre washer in the pinhole. Drill the pinhle out slightly if the self tapper wont go in. Then as an added precaution cover the self tapper with araldite.

 

Thanks Billy

 

Was thinking of trying this but with some PTFE tape wrapped around the head of the screw, great idea about the araldite, would it cope with the temperature of the cylinder?

[paulcatchpole]

Thanks Billy

 

Was thinking of trying this but with some PTFE tape wrapped around the head of the screw, great idea about the araldite, would it cope with the temperature of the cylinder?

 

Aye, it would... How hot are you getting it anyway?

 

<55deg risks legionella, >65deg causes excess limescale. In a house cylinder, at least...

 

First easy quote was Wikipedia, so pinch of salt and all that:

 

The European Guidelines for Control and Prevention of Travel Associated Legionnaires’ Disease recommend that hot water should be stored at 60 °C (140 °F) and distributed such that a temperature of at least 50 °C and preferably 55 °C is achieved within one minute at outlets.[12] If there is a dishwasher without a booster heater, it may require a water temperature within a range of 57 °C (134.6 °F) to 60 °C (140 °F) for optimum cleaning,[13] in which case tempering valves set to no more than 55 °C can be applied to faucets to avoid scalding. (Note: Tank temperatures above 60 °C may produce calcium deposits, which could later harbor bacteria, in the water tank. Temperatures above 60 °C may also cause gradual erosion of glassware in a dishwasher.)

 

PC

[graymondo]

Thank you

 

 

 

Is this just ordinary solder?

It is the solder that plumbers and heating engineers use to solder capillary type fittings. It is called 'endfeed' because it is applied to the end of the fitting that do not contain any solder as opposed to Yorkshire type fittings which traditionally contain solder. It comes in a roll, Screwfix do it and the flux the solder comes in 2 types lead and lead free, the latter is used for drinking water pipes and the former central heating circuits. See here for Screwfix. I would say that soldering is the only permanent method of repairing a copper cylinder other than replace it. On the question of pressure; a soldered joint will withstand a maximum of 20bar much more than your system will develop, the only time they will fail is if they have not been done properly and this more often than not is insufficient cleaning of the surfaces which is why I suggested self cleaning flux.

I see another thread about legionnaires disease if you are concerned about this disinfect your system with the type of product shown Here there is a good article on infections and how to deal with them. The service and price is excellent too.

 

Regards,

 

Graymondo

Edited May 31, 2010 by graymondo