Stern Tube / Gearbox / Starter Confusion Part 3

[paulcatchpole]

Ebay item might be of interest ... Clicky

 

 

Thanks for finding it Graham, but sadly that's a 4-bolt flange, and flexible which we don't want - reckon 20mm'd be a push to bore out to 1.5" too...

 

I've sent some feelers out for another long shaft (tee hee), but I'm not holding a lot of hope - and if it can be achieved t'other direction then that might be a good idea? Apart from the fact that shaft's a bit worn, it seems a shame to buy a whole new one for 10-15mm extra length!

 

PC

 

PS: The starter has turned up, the real one that is - and it's s*dding massive - I now understand why they're not £2.50.

 

Have optimistically put a fuel can in the car, some jump leads, my box of imperial nuts and bolts, and a fresh can of oil. :lol:

 

This is probably the point when I work out that it's supposed to go the other way around...

 

PC

[RLWP]

Don't forget a box of assorted imperial swearwords to encourage it into life.

 

Richard

 

It won't understand metric ones

[MoominPapa]

www.startyabastard.com

 

MP.

[paulcatchpole]

Don't forget a box of assorted imperial swearwords to encourage it into life.

 

Richard

 

It won't understand metric ones

 

Is there an imperial equivalent to suck-squeeze-bang-blow?

 

www.startyabastard.com

 

MP.

 

Oh yes, I'll take some of that - BTW, were you suggesting I needed the employees or the product?

 

I've thrown in the cans of:

Cool start

Warm start

Bit rainy start

in case of differing weather conditions, as well as the last chance

Can't-start-won't-start

 

PC

[springy]

Is there an imperial equivalent to suck-squeeze-bang-blow?

 

PC

 

suck-squeeze-bang-blow IS imperial, if it was metric it would be

 

sucez, serrez, claquez, le coup

 

or possibly

 

lutschen Sie, quetschen Sie, knallen Sie, Schlag

 

springy

[paulcatchpole]

suck-squeeze-bang-blow IS imperial, if it was metric it would be

 

sucez, serrez, claquez, le coup

 

or possibly

 

lutschen Sie, quetschen Sie, knallen Sie, Schlag

 

springy

 

Blimey, definitely exhausted my skill with European languages there...

 

Oi, and someone's sold me a straight banana here too...

 

PC

[Timleech]

Paul

 

I tried to PM you last night, your box was full.

I'll try again later today.

 

Tim

[paulcatchpole]

Paul

 

I tried to PM you last night, your box was full.

I'll try again later today.

 

Tim

 

Hi Tim,

 

It's un-fulled now, sorry, Richard sent me too many messages.... :lol:

 

PC

[RLWP]

Cheeky blighter. I've been baling my inbox out with a bucket just to keep afloat!

 

Richard

[paulcatchpole]

Righty!

 

More measurements, for everyone...

 

Apologies for the strange units, I'm better at metric - they take priority...

 

Gearbox output flange to outside surface of stern stem post - 19.75"

Gearbox flange 'large' OD - 4.75"

Coupling minor OD - 2.75"

Coupling bolt PCD - 99.6mm

Propeller boss length - 2"

Gearbox flange register dia - 2.5"

Bolt hole diameter - 11.45mm

Coupling total length - 92.3mm

Max coupling 1.5" dia engagement length - 44.35mm

Coupling 'thickness' each side of 1.5" bore - 16.3mm

First 'step' depth on inside of coupling against gearbox flange - 16.3mm

Threaded shaft protrusion beyond gearbox flange - 15mm (note, not tightened onto taper)

 

Hope those help!

 

PC

 

Also from today, apart from the engine excitement elsewhere...

 

Shaft protrusion beyond flange:

 

 

Flange, 'cause I like the word...

 

 

Should this have 1/2" of end-float play?

 

 

Bit worn?

 

 

All good fun eh?

 

 

PC

 

Cheeky blighter. I've been baling my inbox out with a bucket just to keep afloat!

 

Richard

 

Surely not?????

 

PC

Edited May 1, 2010 by paulcatchpole

[paulcatchpole]

Heave-ho, more gearbox fun and worries...

 

I, with some help, have finally managed to extract the bearings from the reduction box - they're all out, in various stages of knackeredness.

 

 

The thrust bearing is, as you all told me, a split-race ball bearing:

 

 

But, more worrying or interesting, depending on your point of view, is the reverse box...

 

I'd been getting worked up about the huge end float in the output shaft, and the graunching noises whilst the engine was running yesterday. Notably today, I can't shift the output shaft at all - no end float, it's well stuck where it is... Can someone tell me not to worry about this?

 

As suggested by Dave, I popped the lid off for a look and found, at least not water, but it's a bit sludgy...

 

 

 

 

 

Can anyone tell me whether that looks good/bad/ugly?

 

I've filled it full of diesel at the moment, in the hope of cleaning it out a bit - hope that wasn't the wrong thing to do either! Said diesel is pouring out of around the output shaft where it emerges into the reduction casing - would that be a knackered output seal, or is it more that I've brimmed it above where oil would normally be?

 

PC

[paulcatchpole]

For the attention of Mr Richard...

 

 

Big box of manky bits coming your way very soon... :lol:

 

PC

[RLWP]

What a funny looking spanner in that box

 

Richard

[paulcatchpole]

What a funny looking spanner in that box

 

Richard

 

Mad as a box of frogs, you, Richard...

 

It looks funny 'cause it's a well calibrated adjustable spanner...

 

PC

[Guest User]

With regards the reversing gearbox, I reckon I'd have peek to see there's some clutch surface, check that the gap "G" is 2.5 mm as per page 45 of the Manual, reassemble, refill with oil and simply do a test run on the engine, check for leaks, and then check whether you've got forward, neutral and reverse ... if not then check the gearbox oil pressure; 250 psi in neutral, 320 psi when running in reverse (also on page 45 of the manual) .... and don't forget to hook up the air ducting to give proper cooling if you're planning on doing a long test run. Oh and I don't know if this helps but I managed to get some photos of the GF's Lister this weekend ...

 

 

 

[paulcatchpole]

With regards the reversing gearbox, I reckon I'd have peek to see there's some clutch surface, check that the gap "G" is 2.5 mm as per page 45 of the Manual, reassemble, refill with oil and simply do a test run on the engine, check for leaks, and then check whether you've got forward, neutral and reverse ... if not then check the gearbox oil pressure; 250 psi in neutral, 320 psi when running in reverse (also on page 45 of the manual) .... and don't forget to hook up the air ducting to give proper cooling if you're planning on doing a long test run. Oh and I don't know if this helps but I managed to get some photos of the GF's Lister this weekend ...

 

Hi Graham - ta for the advice!

 

I bunged it back together today, after ages spent cleaning the top gasket and cover, draining the diesel out and refilling it with oil. It didn't exactly work as planned - I get forward in neutral and reverse, and stalled in forward...

 

Air ducting? When we make it, I will... Won't be running it for too long!

 

I don't have a gauge that can do 400psi I'm afraid, where would I find one?

 

I've posted the gearbox-y stuff on a separate thread, with a link to a video of the play in the box, and more detail on what it did today, if you'd fancy a look:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...c=30025&hl=

 

Cheers!

 

PC

[RLWP]

400psi? I probably have a gauge, but we'd have to create an adapter

 

Richard

[paulcatchpole]

400psi? I probably have a gauge, but we'd have to create an adapter

 

Richard

 

Not sure on the size, the manual says this:

 

 

You're a man of resourcefulness though - how did you come to need such a gauge?

 

PC

 

Righty, since consensus is that this thread shall continue, I'll discontinue the breakaway Gearbox thread (that's the thread, not the gearbox that broke away, and not in a literal screwy sense either... :rolleyes), and post what I said there, here, with the You(th)Tube video:

 

Been to the boat today, emptied all the diesel and remains of old oil out - the drain plug looked like this:

 

 

Hmm - I take it it's not supposed to be quite that gungy?

 

Anyhow, bunged some fresh EP80 in, after cleaning up the top cover and gasket...

 

Also, tried what Dave had suggested with the replace-the-screw to get it to release into neutral - which didn't quite work. With the original screw, or no screw, the output shaft won't move at all - locked in forward, as expected.

 

With the internal lever screwed over so it should've been released, it allowed me to rock the output shaft through ten degrees or so, and also the end float, which is probably actually about 10mm, returned.

 

There's a video here, of the movement:

 

 

What do the experts say to this?

 

Furthermore, I ran the engine again for a good five mins, and managed to get the gear selector to move. In neutral or reverse positions, I get forward, whether I like it or not. If I select forward, the box stalls the engine - is this the infamous ahead-and-astern at the same time trick?

 

Could really do with some guidance on where to go from here, please!

 

PC

 

 

PC

Edited May 3, 2010 by paulcatchpole

[paulcatchpole]

Whilst we're at it, and you're all warmed up in imperial measurements...

 

Oil seals for the output of our reduction... Back to back imperial seals.

 

Each measure:

 

'Depth' - 9.8mm thick,

OD: 2 1/4"

ID: 39.9mm, shaft is 39.8mm, so 1.565" possibly, 1-9/16"?

 

What's going on with this ID? It doesn't match the bearing because the shaft has a larger section when it goes through the casing, and is smaller on the outside taper and smaller inside through the output gear and thrust bearing.

 

PC

[RLWP]

Not sure on the size, the manual says this:

 

 

You're a man of resourcefulness though - how did you come to need such a gauge?

 

PC

 

We used to use gauges up to about 500psi on the low pressure rig pumps when I was an apprentice doing development work. Those pumps fed the real ones that went up to about 6,000psi

 

Richard

 

And I'm a keen and experience skip diver

[paulcatchpole]

We used to use gauges up to about 500psi on the low pressure rig pumps when I was an apprentice doing development work. Those pumps fed the real ones that went up to about 6,000psi

 

Richard

 

And I'm a keen and experience skip diver

 

Excellent...

 

Do I need to call you Derrick from now on?

 

Well, well...

 

PC

 

 

Whilst we're at it, and you're all warmed up in imperial measurements...

 

Oil seals for the output of our reduction... Back to back imperial seals.

 

Each measure:

 

'Depth' - 9.8mm thick,

OD: 2 1/4"

ID: 39.9mm, shaft is 39.8mm, so 1.565" possibly, 1-9/16"?

 

What's going on with this ID? It doesn't match the bearing because the shaft has a larger section when it goes through the casing, and is smaller on the outside taper and smaller inside through the output gear and thrust bearing.

 

PC

 

Could it actually be:

 

Inside Dia: 1.1/2 Outside Dia: 2.1/4 Type: R23 Width: 3/8

 

Surely I can't be that far out, nor the shaft that far out either?

 

PC

 

Surely I can't be that far out, nor the shaft that far out either?

 

PC

 

Scrub that, how's about this:

 

 

PC

[RLWP]

Excellent...

 

Do I need to call you Derrick from now on?

 

Well, well...

 

PC

 

Well, you could, only these were aircraft fuel system test rigs running at about 6000 rpm, with pumps chucking out kerosene at up to 5,000 gallons per hour.

 

Richard

[paulcatchpole]

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p32734/1....oduct_info.html

 

Got it, I think... :lol:

 

PC

 

Well, you could, only these were aircraft fuel system test rigs running at about 6000 rpm, with pumps chucking out kerosene at up to 5,000 gallons per hour.

 

Richard

 

Ah, sorry! I know it was a poor attempt at humour!

 

5000gph to run engines? Blimey... Sounds incredible...

 

PC

[RLWP]

Ah, sorry! I know it was a poor attempt at humour!

 

5000gph to run engines? Blimey... Sounds incredible...

 

PC

 

RB211 at take-off is about that. A 747 has four of those

 

Richard

 

Mind you, that's nothing compared to a Saturn 5 rocket (and I'm not old enough to have worked on one of those)

Edited May 3, 2010 by RLWP

[Timleech]

Whilst we're at it, and you're all warmed up in imperial measurements...

 

Oil seals for the output of our reduction... Back to back imperial seals.

 

Each measure:

 

'Depth' - 9.8mm thick,

OD: 2 1/4"

ID: 39.9mm, shaft is 39.8mm, so 1.565" possibly, 1-9/16"?

 

What's going on with this ID? It doesn't match the bearing because the shaft has a larger section when it goes through the casing, and is smaller on the outside taper and smaller inside through the output gear and thrust bearing.

 

PC

 

I'm not intimately familiar with these boxes, it's many years since I had one apart, but it's very common for the seals to run on the outside diameter of the half-coupling.

I think you did post some numbers for the old seal but I can't find them, these can actually be interpreted with a bit of inspired guesswork (if you don't know the makers exact system) to give the dimensions.

 

Tim