Teddington to Brendford

[odet]

Hi Everybody,

as part of this years holiday, we are planning to navigate the tidal Thames from Teddington to Brentford in a 57ft narrowboat.

The collected wisdom from the Nicholson and the internet tells me, that we should start from Teddington 30 minutes before Teddington HW, which itsself is 60 mins past London Bridge HW.

So in other words we should start from Teddington 30 mins before London Bridge HW ( got the Tide Table printed out ).

 

What i cant work out now, is what authorities and lock keepers I need to phone up exactly when. ( no VHF on board )

 

Please advice.

 

Regards

 

odet

[magnetman]

Hi Everybody,

as part of this years holiday, we are planning to navigate the tidal Thames from Teddington to Brentford in a 57ft narrowboat.

The collected wisdom from the Nicholson and the internet tells me, that we should start from Teddington 30 minutes before Teddington HW, which itsself is 60 mins past London Bridge HW.

So in other words we should start from Teddington 30 mins before London Bridge HW ( got the Tide Table printed out ).

 

What i cant work out now, is what authorities and lock keepers I need to phone up exactly when. ( no VHF on board )

 

Please advice.

 

Regards

 

odet

 

You can just arrive at Teddington any time you like and there will be a lock keeper on duty at all times

 

Provided that your anticipated arrival time is between 0800 and 1800 at Brentford there will be a lock keeper on duty at the Thames/Grand union lock 2 hours each side of high tide - no need to book it. The next lock and some of them going up towards Uxbridge will need a BW watermate key to operate or unlock the paddles.

 

You don't need VHF.

 

In the event that you do the trip outside of high water hours you may have to go through Richmond half lock, for which there may be a charge of £5.

 

 

 

handy website here:

 

http://www.teddington-lock.co.uk/

[alan_fincher]

In theory if your arrival at Brentford is in the evening, after the normal knocking-off time for the lock-keeper, you should be able to phone BW in advance, and request that the lock is manned, (think you may have to give a day's notice, though - check!).

 

In practice, (last year), we had to be quite insistent on this point - they wanted us to hold at Teddington overnight, then push through for an early passage on the tidal stretch in the morning.

 

That didn't suit our plans, and after a couple of further calls they agreed to provide the service that's actually offered.

 

I don't know if that was a "one off" manning issue, as since then we have been told the lock-keepers are usually grateful for the overtime.

 

Worth being aware of, though - we found they do capitulate if you stick with it.

[Keeping Up]

I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the need to telephone Greenwich VTS on 020 8855 0315. The guidance is quite specific, that instead of requiring VHF: "A special exemption allows narrowboats of more than 45 ft in transit between Teddington and Brentford (in either direction) to report to London VTS by telephone on departure and again on arrival."

 

I'd say it was more conventionally recommended to leave Teddington at about High Water, which as you say is one hour after HW London Bridge (but don't forget to allow for GMT/BST). The "half-hour before" is the time taken to pass through the lock. However the lock-keeper at Teddington will advise you.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Keeping Up

[magnetman]

I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the need to telephone Greenwich VTS on 020 8855 0315. The guidance is quite specific, that instead of requiring VHF: "A special exemption allows narrowboats of more than 45 ft in transit between Teddington and Brentford (in either direction) to report to London VTS by telephone on departure and again on arrival."

 

I'd say it was more conventionally recommended to leave Teddington at about High Water, which as you say is one hour after HW London Bridge (but don't forget to allow for GMT/BST). The "half-hour before" is the time taken to pass through the lock. However the lock-keeper at Teddington will advise you.

 

Does anyone actually DO this?

 

I've heard of narrow boats over 45ft going right down to Limehouse with no VHF and not having any trouble.

[Keeping Up]

Does anyone actually DO this?

 

I've heard of narrow boats over 45ft going right down to Limehouse with no VHF and not having any trouble.

I have no idea, because I use VHF. HOwever, the OP needs to be aware of the regulations and was sensible to ask.

[Guest User]

BW publish a little booklet that has the manned hours and tide times for their tidal locks ... give them a call and request a copy ? (we got ours from the Brentford Lockie) .... saves a lot of head scratching, and yes you're asked to phone and give 24hrs notice if you want to book an out-of-hours locking through Brentford. Officially you're supposed to phone or radio VTS when you're in transit between Teddington and Brentford and to let them know when you've completed the passage, but in practice I've a feeling very few people do it.

 

Yep Teddington is open 24/7, and for normal hours it's easiest (or I find it so) to aim to lock through Teddington at the top of the tide which is essentially the mid-period of the 4 hours during which Brentford will be open. It's really quite straight forward.

 

I can sympathise with Alan ... I spoke to the Brentford lockie and he said, with a mischievous twinkle in his eye, that if we'd wanted to book an out of hours locking that he'd have suddenly had a bad back or flu or somesuch ... so I guess it's not an official reluctance more a case of individual attitudes to the job.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Graham!

[alan_fincher]

The advice from St Pancras Cruising Club in their excellent Thames Cruising Guide (PDF Document) is.....

 

Downstream transits from TEDDINGTON to BRENTFORD are best within the window of 1 hour before HW Teddington and HW Teddington. In that way you catch the last of the flow and avoid the ebb in full spate. The transit takes between 1 and 1 1⁄2 hours. Any departure after HW Teddington +3⁄4 hour stands the risk of arriving at Thames Lock after the lock has closed. Brentford Creek becomes a sea of mud at low tide.

 

Personally what we did was to arrive in good time, (bags of mooring above Teddington lock), the let the Teddington lock-keeper advise us on best time to start.

 

I must admit that I was unaware of the requirements to phone London VTS on this passage, and am certain we neither did that, nor were advised to do that last year. A distinct impression was given that little use of VHF is made further up than Brentford anyway.

 

My understanding is that Thames Lock, Brentford isn't even monitoring VHF, even if a narrow-boat has it installed - is that correct please ?

 

However, the OP needs to be aware of the regulations and was sensible to ask.

 

Which document are you referencing, Allan.

 

Where BW say on their "VHF radio" page that an exemption exists for narrow-boats, no mention is made of making phone calls instead, so the info is not that well communicated.

 

Edited for "Cras" spelling of St Pancras"

Edited April 21, 2010 by alan_fincher

[Keeping Up]

My understanding is that Thames Lock, Brentford isn't even monitoring VHF, even if a narrow-boat has it installed - is that correct please ?

AFAIK neither Teddington nor Brentford monitor VHF.

 

The requirement to contact VTS is a PLA regulation. As such neither the employees of the EA at Teddington, nor of BW at Brentford, have any concern as to whether or not you contact VTS. However if you were to have any problems while you were on PLA waters, you may find yourself regretting the fact that you omitted to do so.

 

I must admit that I was unaware of the requirements to phone London VTS on this passage, and am certain we neither did that, nor were advised to do that last year. A distinct impression was given that little use of VHF is made further up than Brentford anyway.

 

My understanding is that Thames Lock, Brentford isn't even monitoring VHF, even if a narrow-boat has it installed - is that correct please ?

 

 

 

Which document are you referencing, Allan.

 

Where BW say on their "VHF radio" page that an exemption exists for narrow-boats, no mention is made of making phone calls instead, so the info is not that well communicated.

 

Edited for "Cras" spelling of St Pancras"

The formal statement of the regulations is in the General Directions for Navigation in the Port of London under rule 4.2 on page 12, and is repeated in a number of BW and PLA publications including, for example, the excellent Tideway Handbook.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Keeping Up

[alan_fincher]

The formal statement of the regulations is in the General Directions for Navigation in the Port of London under rule 4.2 on page 12, and is repeated in a number of BW and PLA publications including, for example, the excellent Tideway Handbook.

Yes,

 

The bizarre thing is you get an information overload when you go on the Thames in EA waters, but very little recognition that lots of narrow-boats doing it will progress to PLA waters, where significantly different things apply.

 

As the Teddington lock-keeper worked us through on our own, it would not have been difficult for him to ensure we knew the basics of those final miles, but I don't remember any such dialogue.

 

I do remember being phased at Richmond, where the "orange" lights on the "bridge" we eventually worked out we had to pass under all looked for the world like they were red, and we should not be doing it! (All the crew thought they looked "red", so if one of us is colour-blind, then we all are!).

[odet]

Thanks very much everybody,

so I will call London VTS leaving Teddington and only bother any lock keeper if I would need out of hour services.

[Canalwatcher]

We are just back from a Thames trip and went from Brentford to Teddington and vice versa. We were more than lucky with the weather and had a great 10 days.

 

Especial thanks to Blackrose who helped us through the gauging lock on the way down and for the recommendations to moor overnight at the bottom of the Hanwell flight and go to the Fox pub which we really enjoyed.

 

I did ring VTS when we left Brentford but they didn't seem too interested. The lock keeper at Thames lock when I asked him said "you can ring them if you like".

 

On the way back we left Teddington about 10 mins after high tide and took just under an hour to Brentford.

[mykaskin]

Tidal Locks Availability:

 

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/22775

 

is also a useful document if it hasn't been mentioned already.

 

Mike

[GUMPY]

personally I leave about 2.5 - 2.75hrs before high tide this enables me to have a flat river (no Tide) down as far as Richmond. Sometimes I have to wait for the barrier to be raised this is a sight in itself, then punch the tide down to Brentford, turn below Brentford and come up Brentford gut on the tide.

 

Only once have I left Teddington at high tide, on a big spring tide and we struggled to get the boat round into Brentford, but then it only had 10hp, never again.

[fender]

Always try to find out if MV Henley is on the tideway, it usually is at the very top of the tide. Do ask at Teddington if Henley is expected to head downstream (or upstream by phoning ahead) and if so let its much better to let these speed starved merchants through the tideway first. Once they have gone there's still usually plenty of leeway before the tide turns.

[WJM]

I never bother contacting London VTS if I am doing Teddington to Brentford. They are not interested. I do contact them if I am going down through London, it is much busier and the flow is a lot faster down there.

 

The advice on timing your passage relative to the tide is only for narrowboats that are powered by a twisted rubber band. In practice you can go at any time as long as you hit BW Thames Lock Brentford when it is manned. The tide is not very strong so going against it is no problem, just takes longer (40 minutes with the tide, 80 minutes against it)

[Hairy-Neil]

The collected wisdom from the Nicholson and the internet tells me, that we should start from Teddington 30 minutes before Teddington HW, which itsself is 60 mins past London Bridge HW.

So in other words we should start from Teddington 30 mins before London Bridge HW ( got the Tide Table printed out ).

 

Remember the tide tables are in GMT

[odet]

So I guess there are two quite different approches.

One being just go and dont care, the other one trying to be prepeared as for a channel crossing :-)

I will just try my best and hope everything goes well.

But what is MV Henley ? And what is so bad about it ?

 

Regards

 

Thomas

[magnetman]

So I guess there are two quite different approches.

One being just go and dont care, the other one trying to be prepeared as for a channel crossing :-)

I will just try my best and hope everything goes well.

But what is MV Henley ? And what is so bad about it ?

 

Regards

 

Thomas

 

MV Henley is an ex Salters of Oxford thames steamer. They are beautiful boats which grace the river. She does make a bit of a swell when she's going along at a good rate but my view is if you don't like boats making a wash and going along nicely then don't go on tidal rivers

 

anyway, its not much compared with what you get once below Wandsworth. Teddington to Brentford is tame.

[blackrose]

I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the need to telephone Greenwich VTS on 020 8855 0315. The guidance is quite specific, that instead of requiring VHF: "A special exemption allows narrowboats of more than 45 ft in transit between Teddington and Brentford (in either direction) to report to London VTS by telephone on departure and again on arrival."

 

I wasn't aware of that. If I was going down to Limehouse I'd notify VTS (by VHF or phone), but I wouldn't bother if I was just going from Teddington to Brentford. I don't think anyone actually does contact them just to go from Teddington to Brentford and I imagine they might be a bit surprised if you did.

 

 

personally I leave about 2.5 - 2.75hrs before high tide this enables me to have a flat river (no Tide) down as far as Richmond. Sometimes I have to wait for the barrier to be raised this is a sight in itself, then punch the tide down to Brentford, turn below Brentford and come up Brentford gut on the tide.

 

Only once have I left Teddington at high tide, on a big spring tide and we struggled to get the boat round into Brentford, but then it only had 10hp, never again.

 

I don't understand Julian. If you leave Teddington 2.5 hours before high tide aren't you punching a flood tide all the way until you turn into Brentford? Slack water usually only lasts for half an hour.

 

Edit: Just realised that if the barrier was up there'd be no tide above Richmond.

Edited April 22, 2010 by blackrose

[WJM]

The run from Brentford to Richmond Weir / Lock is very short. If tide times do not suit your schedule, a useful option is to leave Brentford as they are closing (2 hours after high tide), push against the tide for the short distance to Richmond, then lock up onto the now tideless river above. Thereafter, the run to Teddington is just a normal river.

 

 

Really you can go anytime you like, nobody will prevent you. There is a lot of unnecessary fuss over this issue. I have done the upward passage with a spring tide pouring out and the river on Red Boards. It took over two hours but it can be done.

[fender]

The run from Brentford to Richmond Weir / Lock is very short. If tide times do not suit your schedule, a useful option is to leave Brentford as they are closing (2 hours after high tide), push against the tide for the short distance to Richmond, then lock up onto the now tideless river above. Thereafter, the run to Teddington is just a normal river.

 

 

Really you can go anytime you like, nobody will prevent you. There is a lot of unnecessary fuss over this issue. I have done the upward passage with a spring tide pouring out and the river on Red Boards. It took over two hours but it can be done.

 

That is right, the tides dont always arrive at the 'right time.' Rain, wind and other conditions can force the tides to arrive late. Several years ago I headed from Teddington to Brentford against a tide which was much higher than anyone expected, at a time when the alanmacs said it would be turning ready to go out. It was still coming in by the time I got to Isleworth. Richmond was flooded and it was an amazing sight from the river. The journey took only 20 minutes or so extra on normal times and the entry into Brentford was well up over normal levels. The only issue really is Thames locks Brentford which does limit the times one can arrive or leave the Grand Union.

[the grinch]

the only time i have contacted PLA is when using the drying ground at Isleworth to paint the hull. I always give them a curtesy call so the know we are meant to be sitting there for a few days. saves the " are you stuck" enquiries!! other than that we just tell the relevent locky when we will return so they don't not turn up as nobody left the other end!

[Hairy-Neil]

I don't think anyone actually does contact them just to go from Teddington to Brentford and I imagine they might be a bit surprised if you did.

 

Don't judge others by your own poor standards. I used to phone every time I passed through that length. Prior to owning a mobile phone, to make the calls I used a call box on the south side of London Road, just to the west of the canal at the Brentford end, and a payphone in the office at Teddington Lock.