Anti social behaviour

[Chris Pink]

As I cycled home I have just witnessed a liveaboard emptying his porta-potti off the back deck of his boat.

 

 

What do you think I should do about this?

[fuzzyduck]

Report the cnut to BW and the EA.

[Heffalump]

Empty yours onto the back deck of his boat.

[david and julie]

How do you know he lives on his boat?

[Chris Pink]

Report the cnut to BW and the EA.

 

my instinctive response but would there be any point?

 

my word against his, no evidence left by the time they investigate...

 

I do find it quite depressing, considering the amount of work I do to try and improve the public image of the liveaboard community round here.

 

Tempted to put a name and shame poster up somewhere.

 

How do you know he lives on his boat?

 

seen him and his boat around. Why?

[Guest wanted]

Challenge him face to face, let him know you think it's unacceptable and what effect it has on the cut. If it falls on deaf ears then the posters sound like a good plan.

[blackrose]

my instinctive response but would there be any point?

 

my word against his, no evidence left by the time they investigate...

 

I do find it quite depressing, considering the amount of work I do to try and improve the public image of the liveaboard community round here.

 

Tempted to put a name and shame poster up somewhere.

 

The point is that if you inform the relevant waterways authorities it is then up to them to decide the response, not you.

 

They're not going to try to collect evidence or balance your word against his - they will take your complaint at face value and probably just send him a warning letter. However, they are then informed and if they receive other such complaints in future they can take action.

 

Of course you may approach him yourself if you wish, but vigilante action is never a good idea and nor in my opinion is a poster campaign.

 

Edit: Actually I don't think one really needs to catch someone in the act of emptying their toilet into the canal to know it's going on. I know of boats near me which have never been to the pump out and I've never seen the occupants taking cassettes to the elsan point over several years. Either they are very good at timing their bowel movements so they only ever go when they're out, or it's being dumped.

Edited March 26, 2010 by blackrose

[The Anonymous Bard]

We know of at least one boat that does this where we visit at weekends and also came up with a few ideas, best one in my opinion being the name and shame poster as Chris suggested as it could be posted discreetly one evening and is totally anonymous from the point of the complainant so no reprisals... if they know someone is on to them but don't know who I think it would make them very uneasy about continuing to empty shit or whatever straight into the cut, or any other wrong doings come to that.

 

Not a pleasant action to have to take but not a pleasant thing to do from their perspective either.

 

Blackrose... I can't believe there are two people talking about shit before five in the morning, i'm off out to get some air, coffee... even a life if i'm lucky

[blodger]

The point is that if you inform the relevant waterways authorities it is then up to them to decide the response, not you.

 

 

Edit: Actually I don't think one really needs to catch someone in the act of emptying their toilet into the canal to know it's going on. I know of boats near me which have never been to the pump out and I've never seen the occupants taking cassettes to the elsan point over several years. Either they are very good at timing their bowel movements so they only ever go when they're out, or it's being dumped.

 

Cassette scores over pump out regarding the flexibility they offer regarding emptying.!

 

In another thread I was supporting increases self pump out provision so that self pump outers do not follow suit!

[fuzzyduck]

As I have no weed hatch I have a zero tolerance for such dirty scabby vile people.

 

Please report him.

[carlt]

I would probably tell him what I saw, acknowledge the futility of reporting the incident, but say that if I ever saw him doing it again I would be emptying my cassette down his chimney.

[sbillis]

Begs the question. What do other live aboards do with their potties ? Miles from anywhere, no sanitary stations, no pumpouts, too cold to go ashore.

 

Just curious.

 

Simon

[Chris Pink]

Actually I don't think one really needs to catch someone in the act of emptying their toilet into the canal to know it's going on. I know of boats near me which have never been to the pump out and I've never seen the occupants taking cassettes to the elsan point over several years. Either they are very good at timing their bowel movements so they only ever go when they're out, or it's being dumped.

 

I was thinking about this and i don't think you can jump to conclusions like this. I, for instance, will take my cassettes to be emptied at a time when i think there won't be many people around. One likes to be private about these things.

 

A letter is my thought this morning but there's no point in making threats unless I am prepared to carry them out and I can't see me emptying my shit on his boat.

 

I tend to agree that the occasional boater emptying into the canal is not an environmental disaster but it has been said many times, there are a lot of liveaboards on this bit of canal and a lot of people behaving like this....

 

It is difficult to tell but there was something so blatant about it that implied this was a regular method. But I don't know this.

 

It does make any sense of community take a bit of a knock.

[NB Alnwick]

As I cycled home I have just witnessed a liveaboard emptying his porta-potti off the back deck of his boat.

 

 

What do you think I should do about this?

 

I am sure it happens and, as David Mack has already stated, if the contents are entirely natural it will do no more harm than the waste that inevitably enters the water from fish, birds and animals. Nevertheless, if it contains added chemicals it will harm the aquatic environment (which is why I object strongly to the way people abuse anti-freeze but that's another argument!) and even if it doesn't most reasonable people who care for our canals would regard it as unsociable behaviour in the extreme.

 

So how do you stop it? I wouldn't report another boater to BW or the EA without first making sure that they are aware that what they are doing is wrong and sufficiently anti social to cause offence to other waterway users. So I would approach the offender in a positive way and say "I saw you emptying your cassette into the water, did you realise that you are not supposed to do that?" and continue with a fair warning of the likely consequences should BW or the EA discover what they are doing. Of course they may react in the same way as many of us on this forum react when people pontificate about bye-laws etc. but, at least, you will have made an effort to stop the practice.

 

I would suggest that approaching the offender and arguing the case as I have suggested above is really no different to the way most of us would re-act (on-line) if someone started a new topic on this forum advocating such a practice . . .

 

Edited because I have just seen Carl's response and he says it so much more succinctly!

Edited March 26, 2010 by NB Alnwick

[carlt]

Begs the question. What do other live aboards do with their potties ? Miles from anywhere, no sanitary stations, no pumpouts, too cold to go ashore.

I used to drive to sanitary stations, if iced in, but I have been known, in emergency, to lift a sewer inspection cover and tip it down there.

[Chris Pink]

Begs the question. What do other live aboards do with their potties ? Miles from anywhere, no sanitary stations, no pumpouts, too cold to go ashore.

 

Just curious.

 

Simon

 

Go to a lot of effort!

 

I know a couple of people who go off into the woods with spades every day and think storing shit is bad practice - you would never know they had been there.

 

If you had an emergency then digging a shallow grave for your cassette contents seems acceptable to me though one should be aware of the impact.

 

I have also done what Carl suggests, especially a few years ago when there were less elsan points.

 

Worst comes to the worst, public toilets.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Chris Pink

[blackelle123]

We have been in a position where we have been in the middle of nowhere and haven't been able to empty the cassette in a conventional manner. We dug a a hole and buried it (the very last resort) similar to peeing behind a bush when caught short I surpose. I would never put it directly over the side - there is already enough crap and corruption going on without further additions, especially regarding the chemical used.

 

During the bad weather, we have even taken it to work and emptied down the outside loo - there are always other options.

 

If burying is the only option - then do it properly. A friends dog nearly died when getting too curious regarding cassette toilet contents - not ours! (before proper facilities were in place) - he felt like a mid morning snack and ended up in the vets really poorly for two days.

 

Regarding the smuck who thinks he can do what he likes - name and shame!!! Why should he get away with being a complete jerk and thinking that his actions have no consequences.

[Chris Pink]

I have decided to write this letter;

 

To the occupant of XXXX XXXX BW no XXXXXX

 

Hi

 

I saw you emptying your toilet into the canal last night. I would like you to know that I consider this unacceptable.

 

You may consider that one toilet of shit in all this water makes no difference.

 

You are wrong.

 

A friend of mine was stood in the water 50 yards from here last week clearing his propeller. Do you think he should be standing in your shit?

 

There are well over 200 livaboard boats in this pound. Can you imagine the environmental impact if everybody emptied feaces into the canal?

 

There are many reports of Wiels disease from rat urine. Human faeces contains many pathogens and all of us handle wet ropes, have to go into the canal occasionally, or use canal water for washing our boats and other non-food uses.

 

As you will no doubt be aware there is much discussion at the moment about the impact of boaters on the local environment, from BANES council and Bathampton Parish Council amongst others. One of their concerns is exactly this, that of how we dispose of our shit. I have made statements to both these bodies saying that no liveaboard boater would behave this way. I can no longer counter their allegations thanks to your selfish action.

 

There are facilities readily available for disposal of human waste. There is a BW elsan at Dundas and Bradford, for £30 a year you can use Jenks' facilities at Bathampton. Bath Narrowboats also offer disposal for £2. You don't appear to me to be so poor as to need to save £2 by polluting the environment.

 

As you obviously know, because you are doing this late at night, it also illegal and I know that the Environment Agency takes reports of this kind of behaviour very seriously.

 

I will not report this the the Environment Agency or British Waterways on this occasion. But if I see or hear about it happening again I will report it to these bodies and add a report of last night's events.

 

Opinions I have had from the people I have spoken to have, apart from reporting you, suggested a 'name and shame' poster or emptying my toilet on your boat and other confrontational actions. This is not my style.

 

So please consider my words and deal with your waste more responsibily.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Thought I would add that this is a 'posh' boat. Certainly not a run-down hippy boat, judging by the times I've seen it someone with a job.

 

Not that it makes much difference but perception being what it is....

Edited March 26, 2010 by Chris Pink

[alan_fincher]

As I have no weed hatch I have a zero tolerance for such dirty scabby vile people.

 

Please report him.

But, if you do have a good weed hatch, with adequate clearance under the counter, it is no doubt possible to empty a Porta-Pottie into the cut with nobody seeing you do it!

 

I don't really accept the "if there's no Blue in there, it's not that harmful is it ?" argument.

 

Sea toilets used to be permitted on the canals, including on hire boat fleets, but of course they no longer are.

 

Presumably there is a reason why it got changed, or we could all just s**t in the cut ?

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

I've now seen the text of your letter - that seems a very reasonable stand-point to me.

Edited March 26, 2010 by alan_fincher

[blackelle123]

I'm not sure that I would be so polite - but yes - do it!

 

maybe adding that if there are any repercussions that you would not hesitate to report the incident to the appropriate authorities.

[Chris Pink]

Sea toilets used to be permitted on the canals, including on hire boat fleets, but of course they no longer are.

 

Presumably there is a reason why it got changed, or we could all just s**t in the cut ?

 

I bought a boat many years ago that didn't have a toilet other than a bucket in the engine room but the canal is so much more crowded these days and this pound particularly so.

 

Also, I don't know whether this is a personal POV, pooing in a bucket and chucking it over the side seems, irrationally, less harmful than storing up 20 litres of the stuff and then pouring it in..

 

I was right, no? That is irrational. ;-)

[magnetman]

quote Chris Pink

 

"As you will no doubt be aware there is much discussion at the moment about the impact of boaters on the local environment, from BANES council and Bathampton Parish Council amongst others. One of their concerns is exactly this, that of how we dispose of our shit. I have made statements to both these bodies saying that no liveaboard boater would behave this way. I can no longer counter their allegations thanks to your selfish action."

-----------

 

 

So now they KNOW that it DOES happen they will be facilitated in their efforts to 'deal' with the itinerant boater problem in the area, in the sense that if one person does it then who is to say that they aren't all at it?

 

This seems to be a victory for those who would wish to see the back of boaters. Nobody is going to condone it but advertising it publicly and using obcene language on a public forum isn't a good way to deal with it I don't think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is it obcene, obsene, or obscene ah thats the one

[Chris Pink]

quote Chris Pink

 

"As you will no doubt be aware there is much discussion at the moment about the impact of boaters on the local environment, from BANES council and Bathampton Parish Council amongst others. One of their concerns is exactly this, that of how we dispose of our shit. I have made statements to both these bodies saying that no liveaboard boater would behave this way. I can no longer counter their allegations thanks to your selfish action."

-----------

 

 

So now they KNOW that it DOES happen they will be facilitated in their efforts to 'deal' with the itinerant boater problem in the area, in the sense that if one person does it then who is to say that they aren't all at it?

 

This seems to be a victory for those who would wish to see the back of boaters. Nobody is going to condone it but advertising it publicly and using obcene language on a public forum isn't a good way to deal with it I don't think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is it obcene, obsene, or obscene ah thats the one

 

 

Well I don't think it's any of them. It's a word in common use that describes something we all produce. Something only becomes obscene by context. If you posted a picture of someone eating feaces it wouldn't matter what you called it it would be obscene.

 

I do struggle with this but honesty is essential in my opinion. Also it I feel it important that we deal with these things if they do happen. And bringing it out into the open is a way of letting those, few, boaters who behave like this that it's unacceptable.

 

Like I say I struggle with this but my earlier statement, that it didn't happen, was made to the best of my knowledge, and my position now is that i agree with the council on this issue. We still differ on the solution; they say 'get rid of the boaters' i say 'modify their behaviour'.

 

Amongst those of us who proactively care there is a belief that tat on the towpath has improved over recent years from being a problem to the situation now where it is almost none and people are a lot more tidy.

 

By bringing this issue into the open we can effect change. If we ignore it it won't change.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Chris Pink

[Grace and Favour]

>>

 

Also, I don't know whether this is a personal POV, pooing in a bucket and chucking it over the side seems, irrationally, less harmful than storing up 20 litres of the stuff and then pouring it in..

 

I was right, no? That is irrational. ;-)

 

Unusually irrational .

 

 

 

Of course dumping human waste into the cut is anti-social, unhealthy, poor practice to the point of being 'illegal'.

 

It illustrates that the 'erbert doing it is selfish, (to the point of being arrogant), has tarnished respect (if any) for his fellow man, or for his surroundings - - and should be stopped (encouraged not to do it again).

 

I would certainly write to BW - and recognising that there may be little movement from them (!) - would also name and shame, both locally and on the forums

Edited March 26, 2010 by Grace & Favour

[magpie patrick]

quote Chris Pink

 

"As you will no doubt be aware there is much discussion at the moment about the impact of boaters on the local environment, from BANES council and Bathampton Parish Council amongst others. One of their concerns is exactly this, that of how we dispose of our shit. I have made statements to both these bodies saying that no liveaboard boater would behave this way. I can no longer counter their allegations thanks to your selfish action."

-----------

 

 

So now they KNOW that it DOES happen they will be facilitated in their efforts to 'deal' with the itinerant boater problem in the area, in the sense that if one person does it then who is to say that they aren't all at it?

 

This seems to be a victory for those who would wish to see the back of boaters. Nobody is going to condone it but advertising it publicly and using obcene language on a public forum isn't a good way to deal with it I don't think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is it obcene, obsene, or obscene ah thats the one

 

While I can understand your point about advertising these actions being a good way to give ammunition to the anti-boater brigade, I really can't see where Chris has used obscene language. His letter seems extremely articulate and measured to me