Shared ownership ABC Boats?

[saladdays]

Having sold my share in NB Farndon OwnerShips 5 star class(not a happy experience though not the fault of OwnerShips, a fall out with the other owners)I am now considering other shared ownership options. Of the other operators none of them seem to be very large players.Any recomendations.

Edited March 15, 2010 by saladdays

[Canalfreak]

Having sold my share in NB Farndon OwnerShips 5 star class(not a happy experience though not the fault of OwnerShips, a fall out with the other owners)I am now considering other shared ownership options. Of the other operators none of them seem to be very large players.Any recomendations.

 

My wife and I have also moved on from Ownerships, but to buy our own boat. Obviously, you need to get on well with your co-owners and to be on the same wavelength, as I can appreciate.

 

In looking at new boats for sale, we were impressed with the Kingsground boats we saw at a couple of the shows. Not cheap, in fact one of the more expensive offerings, but they looked very good, although obviously I haven't steered one of them.

 

They have only recently entered the shared ownership market.

 

Consequently, Kingsground haven't been in that market long enough to be one of the major players, but if I was going down that route I'd definitely investigate their offering.

 

Bob.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Having sold my share in NB Farndon OwnerShips 5 star class(not a happy experience though not the fault of OwnerShips, a fall out with the other owners)I am now considering other shared ownership options. Of the other operators none of them seem to be very large players.Any recomendations.

 

You are quite right in suggesting that no large players exist in the shared ownership field other than OwnerShips. The second largest player was Challenger who were about a third of the size of OwnerShips in terms of boats "in the water" and only a quarter of its size when they went into liquidation.

 

ABC (better known as Alvechurch) are very new in the game and provide services for a few of the ex Challenger syndicates. Better established and with much more of a track record are Carefree Cruising.

 

As you seem to have fallen out with your fellow owners, you need to ask yourself if you are suited to shared ownership! This is not a personal criticism but you need to consider if sole ownership or hiring might be more suitable for you.

 

You may also wish to consider a private syndicate - however, this requires even more of an ability to get on with fellow owners.

 

Finally, you could buy a share in another OwnerShips managed boat. You need to ask yourself why you have not considered this as an option.

 

If you PM me, giving details of your "fall out", I would be happy to advise further.

 

****Edited to a comment with regard to Kingsground - Very nice boats! However, expect to see boatbuilders building for shared ownership due to a falling order book. ****

Edited March 15, 2010 by Allan(nb Albert)

[mayalld]

You are quite right in suggesting that no large players exist in the shared ownership field other than OwnerShips. The second largest player was Challenger who were about a third of the size of OwnerShips in terms of boats "in the water"

 

Is that the count of real boats, or the count of boats according to Ed Rimmer?

[Guest]

This is just a personal opinion but I've never completely 'got' the concept of shared ownership - for me you either don't own a boat and you just hire one (as we do currently) or you own it and use it exactly when you want as you want and where you want.

 

Shared ownership strikes me just as a very expensive way of hiring the same boat for a few weeks a year....

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Is that the count of real boats, or the count of boats according to Ed Rimmer?

 

That is a count of real boats. Some time back I spoke to the directors of the four companies actively engaged in managed shared ownership including Ed. Ownerships website contains info on all boats it manages. Challenger required a bit more homework as shared boats were being moved into its Stealth Hire Fleet. As far as I could determine Challenger had 27 UK shared boats when it went into liquidation and OwnerShips had 106.

 

Ed did not dispute the number I put to him.

[boatchad]

Shared ownership strikes me just as a very expensive way of hiring the same boat for a few weeks a year....

 

 

Then I am afraid you have never looked fully into shared ownership.

 

I did and I am now part of a private group, this year I have four weeks on the boat which equates to my annual leave from work. Including a fortnight in july/august, a week starting this coming saturday and a week in early autumn for £1000 do you still reckon it is an expensive way of hiring? I used to hire and could sometimes manage two weeks but no way could I justify the hire charges which were in excess of two grand for an inferior craft for a fortnight only. Buying a share was one of my better decisions and I have not regreted it for one minute

 

Because I am still working I can only get away for four weeks so if I bought a boat outright the boat would be sat idle for 48 weeks a year, once I retire I will sell my share and buy outright when I have the time to use it.

 

By all means hire once or twice to see if canals are for you, then if they are, buy a share until such time as buying outright is a viable option.

[Guest]

Then I am afraid you have never looked fully into shared ownership.

 

I did and I am now part of a private group, this year I have four weeks on the boat which equates to my annual leave from work. Including a fortnight in july/august, a week starting this coming saturday and a week in early autumn for £1000 do you still reckon it is an expensive way of hiring? I used to hire and could sometimes manage two weeks but no way could I justify the hire charges which were in excess of two grand for an inferior craft for a fortnight only. Buying a share was one of my better decisions and I have not regreted it for one minute

 

Because I am still working I can only get away for four weeks so if I bought a boat outright the boat would be sat idle for 48 weeks a year, once I retire I will sell my share and buy outright when I have the time to use it.

 

By all means hire once or twice to see if canals are for you, then if they are, buy a share until such time as buying outright is a viable option.

 

And what was your initial outlay??

[Allan(nb Albert)]

And what was your initial outlay??

 

Fair point as it is the total cost that counts!

 

I can only suggest figures for me having been through the buy, run , sell cycle with two shared ownerships companies over a ten year period. My costs were significantly less than half the cost of hiring over the same 10 year period.

 

For many shared ownership is a stepping stone to full ownership on retirement. Perhaps it is a testament to the concept that some owners simply purchase more shares.

[saladdays]

And what was your initial outlay??

 

I paid £8,750 for a 12 th share.If you can find that kind of money you get a really good boat.Then you pay around £1,000 per year for 3 weeks plus other weekends or week as they are available.A pretty good deal. I will be getting back less than I paid of course but it still works out as being much better value than hiring. Thank you all for your help and comments.

[Guest]

I paid £8,750 for a 12 th share.If you can find that kind of money you get a really good boat.Then you pay around £1,000 per year for 3 weeks plus other weekends or week as they are available.A pretty good deal. I will be getting back less than I paid of course but it still works out as being much better value than hiring. Thank you all for your help and comments.

 

I would need to know what you mean by 'a really good boat' spec., berth numbers, layout, stern type etc etc before I could really consider whether it was a good deal or not....

 

happy to be convinced...(but still don't think it's for me)

[Jayseaess]

I would need to know what you mean by 'a really good boat' spec., berth numbers, layout, stern type etc etc before I could really consider whether it was a good deal or not....

 

happy to be convinced...(but still don't think it's for me)

 

I own a 2 week share with Carefree Cruising and find it very good value, yes we paid around £4200 for our share, teh maintanance cost are around £660 for our share and we get 2 weeks and sometimes more if the boat is not being used, I do not believe you can hire a half decent boat for what we pay per year!!

 

Our boat have all mod cons, Sat TV, Dishwasher, washing machine, microwave is only 2 years old and is well looke after by all the owners.

 

To me it made a lot of sense to share rather than hire

 

Nigel

 

PS There is currently a 2 week share for sale in our boat, I think the owner want £3000, contact CC for more details or PM me

Edited March 16, 2010 by Jayseaess

[Midlands Man]

I would need to know what you mean by 'a really good boat' spec., berth numbers, layout, stern type etc etc before I could really consider whether it was a good deal or not....

 

happy to be convinced...(but still don't think it's for me)

 

We bought a share in an ownerships boat in 1994 because it was a lot cheaper than hiring an equivalent boat. We sold the share in 2001 because we bought our own boat. Taking all the costs into account (initial outlay minus what we got back when we sold it, maintenance, mangement fees, diesil, pump-out and gas) it came to about £1100 a year. Hiring in 1994 was about £600 a week out of season and £1000 in season. So provided we took 2 weeks holiday a year on the canals it was cheaper.

 

Prices have changed since then but I think the comparison is still valid.

 

Share ownership may not be for you (it won't be for everyone) but on cost grounds it won for us.

 

MM

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I would need to know what you mean by 'a really good boat' spec., berth numbers, layout, stern type etc etc before I could really consider whether it was a good deal or not....

 

happy to be convinced...(but still don't think it's for me)

 

I'm not sure how stern type determines if its a good deal or not :-)

 

What is a good deal for one person might not be a good deal for another. It all depends on personal circumstances and aspirations.

 

Having been through the buy,run, sell cycle with two different shared ownership companies, I found that both were good deals and suited my circumstances at the time.

[alan_fincher]

Shared ownership strikes me just as a very expensive way of hiring the same boat for a few weeks a year....

We have, for many years had good friends who have a share in the very first Challenger boat ever, (possibly their only 70 footer ?), and are possibly the only couple to have stayed in the group all that time.

 

Obviously not now Challenger, instead it's co-managed by it's owners, (fortunately these folk only lost small amounts care of Rimmer), it is now a tidy few years old, but still immaculate, and a rather nicer experience than most hire boats.

 

It is certainly not correct, even allowing for originally buying the "share", that if you keep it a lot of years, and use all your weeks that it comes anywhere close to the cost of hire boating.

 

It is not even close, but of course if it works out that you can't use your 4 weeks as they fall that year, or can't swap, then it becomes a less attractive proposition.

 

What you get is a boat that owners feel is theirs, rather than somebody else's, and my friends can be found at overnight moorings touching up scratched paint, or doing minor repairs, and would expect their co-owners to be equally committed.

 

It's very much horses for courses, and will not suit some people. The boat is regularly moved for a year or two to each new operating base, so there are not many canals they could traverse that they have not now done, (obviously as theirs is a 70 foot boat, there are some they knew it could not do when they first bought in to it).

 

(Classic comment: "I've never been more glad to get transferred off the K&A again!!).

 

It wouldn't be for me either, (I want boat available for much longer, and times of our choosing), but it clearly delivers for many people.

 

Anyone remember "Anhar" ? He didn't get it either.

 

Try talking to some share boat owners, and it may become clear why, for them, it works.

[adam1uk]

In our three years so far of shared ownership, we have averaged five or six weeks a year (mostly because we like winter cruising). Had we hired that many weeks, I reckon we would have spent far more than we have, even taking into account the purchase of the share.

 

But back to the OP's question. There's Carefree Cruising, who have a system of red and yellow weeks which I found baffling. There's also JD Boat Services at Gailey, whose boats seem to work on a fixed week basis. The Boatshare site has a list of the commercial operators, and many individual syndicates.

Edited March 16, 2010 by adam1uk

[PeterG]

We had an Ownership share for nearly 8 years and with the total costs it was less than half the costs of hiring even though we made sure it was heavily maintained, with no expense spared, or was that just the costs that were passed onto us.

 

However in balance the boat got much more use than the average hire boat and you had to be prepared to get on with the other owners. We eventually moved on when the balance was not right for us any more and we wanted more flexibility which we could only get with our own boat.

 

I would not rule out hiring again though particularly if we wanted to go somewhere that our current boat would not go or did not have the time to cruise too.

 

Shared ownership using ABC should not be an issue as quite a number of the Ownerships boats used their bases when we were involved.

[Naughty Cal]

Having sold my share in NB Farndon OwnerShips 5 star class(not a happy experience though not the fault of OwnerShips, a fall out with the other owners)I am now considering other shared ownership options. Of the other operators none of them seem to be very large players.Any recomendations.

 

Could you not just swap for a share in on of their other boats?

[Big John]

We had one and a half shares (12 shares in all) of a JD Boats (Gailey) share boat for 5 years. We sold the shares for the same as we had paid for them, when we had Epiphany built

[Teakbank12]

I would always say hire a boat once to see if you like canals.

It's a no brainer to continually hire over the years as hireboats are very basic & have no luxuries.

 

To the original poster...Why didn't you think of changing boats if not getting on with other owners?

 

Silkwood owners are proud of their boat even if it is now 12 years old, we keep it well maintained & yes we do have problems but they are always resolved.

 

You have to accept sometimes that if you havn't got on with current owners wjats to say it'll be any different on any other boat.

[boatchad]

I would need to know what you mean by 'a really good boat' spec., berth numbers, layout, stern type etc etc before I could really consider whether it was a good deal or not....

 

happy to be convinced...(but still don't think it's for me)

 

We are out and about on the Shroppie next week you are welcome to come over and take a look. There are no shares currently available on our boat so this is not a sales pitch but if you want to be convinced then the offer is there. The kettle is always on or maybe something a little sronger if you prefer.

[MikeV]

Could you not just swap for a share in on of their other boats?

You can, but in Ownerships you "own" a share in a particular boat. You have find someone to buy your share and then buy a share in a different boat. You'd be lucky to find someone that wanted a straight swap. It's not like timeshare.

 

Ownerships have no financial interest in the boat itself. They only provide the management of the booking and maintenance services. We originally bought into a 1995 boat (in 2003), tested the concept, which worked well for us, and then bought into a newer boat with a different layout since the kids were no longer holidaying with us. The total cost per week for the first boat worked out at £550 including high and low season usage. We'd previously hired at between £800 and £1100 per week. Definitely a better quality boat than any we had hired and I also liked the social aspect of meeting the other co-owners.

 

For me it was a cost effective way to "own" a boat which, while working, I could only use for 3-4 weeks of the year. Now retired, I have my own boat. Which reminds me, I shouldn't be sitting here typing, I need to get over to the marina and work on it!!

[saladdays]

I would always say hire a boat once to see if you like canals.

It's a no brainer to continually hire over the years as hireboats are very basic & have no luxuries.

 

To the original poster...Why didn't you think of changing boats if not getting on with other owners?

 

Silkwood owners are proud of their boat even if it is now 12 years old, we keep it well maintained & yes we do have problems but they are always resolved.

 

You have to accept sometimes that if you havn't got on with current owners wjats to say it'll be any different on any other boat.

 

Hi thanks again for all the interesting advice. I am sure that I can get on with people I just need a second chance to prove it. I am out on a Anglo welsh hire boat at Easter, which has cost a small fortune to hire for a weekend.Market Harborough Foxton locks way. In the meantime I am in the market for a share if any one wants to give me a second chance.

[Jes]

Having sold my share in NB Farndon OwnerShips 5 star class(not a happy experience though not the fault of OwnerShips, a fall out with the other owners)I am now considering other shared ownership options. Of the other operators none of them seem to be very large players.Any recomendations.

[Guest]

We are out and about on the Shroppie next week you are welcome to come over and take a look. There are no shares currently available on our boat so this is not a sales pitch but if you want to be convinced then the offer is there. The kettle is always on or maybe something a little sronger if you prefer.

 

Very kind of you but shall have to decline - not because I wouldn't if I could just not off bloody work 'till April