Narrowboats and wide boats rediscovered at Harefield - the facts

[Hugh]

Wilf Townsend latterly skippered "Barnet". The funnel of "Bootes" still exists too in a private collection. However what GU motors were in Hawtrey/Boyers pits? At least one small Woolwich motor is visible just right of centre in this picture (by P Weaver), also several Town class motors are shown , some sunk. As all of these are accounted for it means some boats were removed. If a full record exists, a list of all known boats which lay in these pits would be extrememly useful. This is information which would help complete the picture of what is known offically to have happened here.

 

If anyone knows the whereabouts of the original of this picture please could we have a copy if possible. Despite being credited to the "Waterways museum/TWT" it is not in their files.

 

 

Might be worth trying HNBOC aka Mike Harrison when he gets back from his travels as he has scanned many of Weaver collection that HNBOC now own (As I understand)

 

Hugh

[Steve King]

I think it is important to differentiate between boats stored at Harefield and boats dumped there. GUCCC stored out of service boats at Widewater (the bit that is now Harefield Marina) as early as 1938 and BWB seemed to have continued this practice, there being limited space at Bulls Bridge.

 

A highly relevant observation there Paul. When FMC went into voluntary liquidation in January 1948 the addition of their fleet to the ex-GUCCCo one now being run by BW would have put severe pressure on the layby at Bulls Bridge. Moving some of the spare craft to Harefield would have been the obvious solution. With such a surfeit of boats (of several different types) and work for the existing fleet ever harder to find there would have been little incentive to spend time and money keeping the spare boats in good condition. And besides, surely the future lay in large, simple and more modern craft with innovations such as blue top covers and elsan toilets to meet modern conditions of operation? Thus we see boats that would be sought after by enthusiasts today deteriorating and apparently dumped in a remote location. One can imagine enthusiasts of the 1950s being appalled at these apparently abandoned working boats, but in reality it was simply BW putting them into temporary store.

 

 

Steve

[Laurence Hogg]

In reply to emails asking for more ariel pictures of Harefield here is a zoomed in on from the 1960's picture and one found took in 1970's. From these you can see how "Widewater" (Harefield marina now) was divided and mainly infilled.

 

Again a plea to anyone with information, we need to know as much as possible about the boats which went into here in the 1950's- mid 1960's. Photographs, articles and any information regarding the boats which were dumped here is now most important. There is a real chance that some excavation and conservation will take place in the future therefore it is essential we know as much as possible about the site in advance.

 

 

Just a note to say we believe in the ariel 1960's picture the larger part of widewater enclosed by the causeway is in water at this time.

[Laurence Hogg]

The below Harefield BW Archive photo (also seen in "Too Many Boats"), shows a number of GU and FMC Uxbridge boats +what seems to be at least one wideboat. The locations of the boats in this photo bear no resemblance to the other BW Archive photos and there are floating and sunken motors especially, which would have been removed. From key reference points in the background this photo seems to have been taken at least 5 years before the others, however it does look like one of the butty's at least has early BW paintwork (so frames the date of photo to between 1948 and 1962).

 

 

Questions I'm asking myself are:

 

Are these the boats that some talk of "coming out of Harefield Flash"?

 

What are the names of boats that are said to have come out of Harefield Flash?

 

Can any boat in this photo be positively identified (I assume only by deduction), and known to have existed post 1962?

 

Any input welcomed...

 

Another picture has surfaced showing these boats which confirms they are in the eastern side of "Widewater". It is taken at roughly 90 degrees and shows the same boats. It was taken in August 1954. I am awaiting clearance to publish this at the moment.

[trevb]

Just noticed this strand. There was an abandoned sunken and very decayed wooden butty called 'Adelaide' (mispelt 'Adeliade') on a bend of the northern Trent & Mersey in the late 1980s, in company with an un-named wooden motorboat in similar condition, and I believe I took photos at the time. Neither were there when I revisited a couple of years ago and I assume they were pulled out and scrapped. I don't know if this is the same boat referred to as being on the Harefield list.

Edited September 10, 2010 by trevb

[mykaskin]

Just noticed this strand. There was an abandoned sunken and very decayed wooden butty called 'Adelaide' (mispelt 'Adeliade') on a bend of the northern Trent & Mersey in the late 1980s, in company with an un-named wooden motorboat in similar condition, and I believe I took photos at the time. Neither were there when I revisited a couple of years ago and I assume they were pulled out and scrapped. I don't know if this is the same boat referred to as being on the Harefield list.

 

IIRC there is a 6 plank wooden butty (floating again?) that is suppose to be a Royalty Class butty (forget which one, but Adelaide could be the one). It should be easy to tell if this boat is a Royalty as, AFAIK, all the town class butties where made by Walkers, and the Royalty ones by Bushell Brothers at Tring.

 

Mike

[carlt]

IIRC there is a 6 plank wooden butty (floating again?) that is suppose to be a Royalty Class butty (forget which one, but Adelaide could be the one). It should be easy to tell if this boat is a Royalty as, AFAIK, all the town class butties where made by Walkers, and the Royalty ones by Bushell Brothers at Tring.

 

Mike

Not true.

 

Adelaide and Anne were built by Walkers.

 

I know "Adelaide" well but have never been allowed to take a tape measure to her.

 

I think it very unlikely that she is a Royalty butty, though.

 

Edited to add: Woods of Brentford built two Royalty butties too, btw.

Edited September 10, 2010 by carlt

[pete harrison]

IIRC there is a 6 plank wooden butty (floating again?) that is suppose to be a Royalty Class butty (forget which one, but Adelaide could be the one). It should be easy to tell if this boat is a Royalty as, AFAIK, all the town class butties where made by Walkers, and the Royalty ones by Bushell Brothers at Tring.

 

Mike

 

An extract from one of my files:-

 

2 WOODEN BUTTYS BUILT BY BUSHELL BROS., TRING. 1931.

COST:- £380.

G.U.C.C.Co.Ltd. TYPE:- B. GEORGE AND MARY REF:- E.

ROYALTY CLASS.

 

205 ALBERT

337 PRINCESS

 

2 WOODEN BUTTYS BUILT BY W.H. WALKER & BROS. Ltd., RICKMANSWORTH. 1931.

COST:- £340.

G.U.C.C.Co.Ltd. TYPE:- B. GEORGE AND MARY REF:- F.

ROYALTY CLASS.

 

204 ADELAIDE

212 ANNE

 

2 WOODEN BUTTYS BUILT BY E.G. WOODS, BRENTFORD. 1931.

COST:- £330.

G.U.C.C.Co.Ltd. TYPE:- B. GEORGE AND MARY REF:- G.

ROYALTY CLASS.

 

206 ALEXANDRA

273 DUCHESS

 

The fleet numbers are Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Limited numbers and "ROYALTY CLASS" is a term I no longer use.

[David Schweizer]

IIRC there is a 6 plank wooden butty (floating again?) that is suppose to be a Royalty Class butty (forget which one, but Adelaide could be the one). It should be easy to tell if this boat is a Royalty as, AFAIK, all the town class butties where made by Walkers, and the Royalty ones by Bushell Brothers at Tring.

 

Mike

According to the information I have, Harland and Wolf built 24 Town classs butties and Walkers built the remaining 62.

 

One of the Woolwich Town class butties has recently been converted into a motor by Roger Farrington at and is currentl lying outside his shed at Bottom lock in Braunston.

Edited September 11, 2010 by David Schweizer

[Paul H]

According to the information I have, Harland and Wolf built 24 Town classs butties and Walkers built the remaining 62.

 

One of the Woolwich Town class butties has recently been converted into a motor by Roger Farrington at and is currentl lying outside his shed at Bottom lock in Braunston.

Unless he's butchered another butty the boat lying at Roger's yard is the Achilles (ex-Birmingham & Midland) which is a Small Woolwich. Last time I passed, the former back end was on the slipway forming the bows of a new boat he is constructing.

 

Paul

[David Schweizer]

Roger has only converted one Butty recently so I must have mistaken it for a Town class.

 

I realise that purists will consider converting butties into motors is butchering, but rather that, than have it laguish somewhere unloved and half sunk, and Roger has done an excellent job (false rivets and all!!)

Edited September 11, 2010 by David Schweizer

[Paul H]

Roger has only converted one Butty recently so I must have mistaken it for a Town class.

 

I realise that purists will consider converting butties into motors is butchering, but rather that than have it laguish unwanted and half sunken somewhere, and Roger has done an excellent job (false rivets and all!!)

 

I'm not actually really that much of a purist - after all I have a "historic" boat with 20ft missing out of the middle of it but I was nevertheless saddened to see what has happened to Achilles.

 

Unwanted butties were a good source of pleasure craft and motor conversions for many years but the time has surely come when their increasing rarity means the needless loss of another one is not easy to forgive. Achilles is a boat which survived intact for almost 65 years carrying well into the 1980s (and perhaps beyond) with Birmingham and Midland, sometimes buttying Nick Hill's Jaguar on loaded pioneering trips all over the system. I have no doubt it was in serious need of work and Roger's work is of course exemplary but what is it now? Neither fish nor fowl, a "nearly historic" motor boat purporting to be the real thing. There would be little difficulty today in going out to buy a small woolwich motor boat but a look through GUCCC fleet lists indicate that there are barely 20 butties left - less than half of the number built.

 

I don't know what the answer is. I suspect that the cost of conversion is barely economic for most people unless of course you're a boatbuilder doing it for yourself. Perhaps though the worst example of historic boat loss in the last couple of years is the (even rarer) icebreaker at Stone which has had its rounded chines removed because the owner thought it rocked too much!

 

And before anyone else points it out, I realise of course that my own boat has been "butchered" but that was in 1964 and it now has 46 years of history as shorter boat as opposed to 29 of being full length. And perhaps more importantly it wasn't me that did it!

 

Paul

[carlt]

 

And before anyone else points it out, I realise of course that my own boat has been "butchered" but that was in 1964 and it now has 46 years of history as shorter boat as opposed to 29 of being full length. And perhaps more importantly it wasn't me that did it!

 

Paul

Did you get the middle bit, when you bought the boat?

[Paul H]

Did you get the middle bit, when you bought the boat?

 

No - but I know who owns it and where it is!

 

Sometime in the 80s it was rescued from the scrapheap at Charity Dock (er OK just Charity Dock) where it had lain for 25 years and taken to Stockton and together with some "blue tops" has done good service as a shed. I ummed and arred about buying it but it would have been expensive to move, awkward to store and i'd never have used it - I'd have bought a 70ft boat I'd wanted one. I believe "my middle" is now going towards reconstructing another small woolwich motor recently sold off by BW.

 

Do I regret not buying it? Well despite wnat I said above, probably yes, as it should really have stayed with the boat in case some future owner wants to stretch it. But isn't it always the way, you only really decide you want something when someone else snatches it from under your nose!

 

Paul

[Barry L Burnell]

Sorry to reopen an old thread but thought Id add my ten pence worth about Harefield Marina. I will welcome myself after this post and share my tales of when I bought my first boat etc.

 

I spent the summer of 2004 at Harefield Marina, I am a local chap and bought a boat from them requiring alot of work.

On clear days if you chugged over to the boundary it was clear to see wrecks under the water-some older folk filled me in with the stories and some of that has been confirmed on here, other bits I guess are nautical myths.

 

However from mooring at the marina it would appear to many that where the canal and marina border it would be possible to cruise straight out as opposed to using the entrance and exit for boats near the bridge end. I can assure you that many boaters not familiar with the marina and history have come a cropper as the boats are literally a couple of feet off the surface and I have seen boats become wedged trying to go across what appears to be a clearing.

 

I am intrigued how many boats that could be at the bottom of the marina. As it used to be a pit, I know it is different depths in different places.

Im pretty sure that the Musk family who lease this area wouldnt allow access or facilitate an operation removing them from their marina in all honesty.

 

Are there any further updates? or anything going on surrounding the findings? I would be more than willing to meet up and talk about this.

[Laurence Hogg]

Sorry to reopen an old thread but thought Id add my ten pence worth about Harefield Marina. I will welcome myself after this post and share my tales of when I bought my first boat etc.

 

I spent the summer of 2004 at Harefield Marina, I am a local chap and bought a boat from them requiring alot of work.

On clear days if you chugged over to the boundary it was clear to see wrecks under the water-some older folk filled me in with the stories and some of that has been confirmed on here, other bits I guess are nautical myths.

 

However from mooring at the marina it would appear to many that where the canal and marina border it would be possible to cruise straight out as opposed to using the entrance and exit for boats near the bridge end. I can assure you that many boaters not familiar with the marina and history have come a cropper as the boats are literally a couple of feet off the surface and I have seen boats become wedged trying to go across what appears to be a clearing.

 

I am intrigued how many boats that could be at the bottom of the marina. As it used to be a pit, I know it is different depths in different places.

Im pretty sure that the Musk family who lease this area wouldnt allow access or facilitate an operation removing them from their marina in all honesty.

 

Are there any further updates? or anything going on surrounding the findings? I would be more than willing to meet up and talk about this.

 

Hello Barry,

The boats you are referring to are not the ones mentioned here. the large number of hulks lie in Hawtrees pit located beyond the perimeter of the present Harefield Marina as you know it, see the ariel picture early in the thread. the subject is now with BW/TWT who are not seemingly doing much at present!

[greywolf]

Hello Barry,

The boats you are referring to are not the ones mentioned here. the large number of hulks lie in Hawtrees pit located beyond the perimeter of the present Harefield Marina as you know it, see the ariel picture early in the thread. the subject is now with BW/TWT who are not seemingly doing much at present!

 

Gasp!! shock!! horror!!

[Barry L Burnell]

Apologies, I see where you mean now. This is the most recently known "Denham Quarry" Very interesting indeed. Does anybody know anything about the boats at the bottom of Harefield marina/Harefield flash and if any were saved?

[Laurence Hogg]

For those who are interested, the level of the water in the pit is falling, FMC "Yardley" is becoming visible along with other boats.

[Redeye]

For those who are interested, the level of the water in the pit is falling, FMC "Yardley" is becoming visible along with other boats.

 

It is my understanding that FMC BISON is believed to have sunk at Harefield Gravel pits after becoming surplus to requirements in the 1940s. She was then raised and sold into private ownership in the 1950s.

 

If anyone has any further information on Bison I would be interested as the hull is at Stockton and I have in a moment ofmadness just bought it.

 

Sorry if this is a bit off topic

 

Redeye

[Paul H]

It is my understanding that FMC BISON is believed to have sunk at Harefield Gravel pits after becoming surplus to requirements in the 1940s. She was then raised and sold into private ownership in the 1950s.

 

If anyone has any further information on Bison I would be interested as the hull is at Stockton and I have in a moment ofmadness just bought it.

 

Sorry if this is a bit off topic

 

Redeye

 

I remember hearing this story when I was a youngster in Uxbridge and the boat was on the houseboat moorings at Cowley - it appeared hogged which is unusual for a metal boat but that might have been an optical illusion due to the hump backed conversion it had.

 

I think the real explaination is although boats (mainly ex-Thomas Clayton rubbish traffic) were dumped in Hawtrees Pit, BW also temporarily stored many surplus craft in Widewater pit (now Harefield Marina) as there wasn't enough room at Bulls Bridge for the number of boats with the dowturn in trade and integration of FMC boats into the fleet. I suspect Bison was one of these. In fact GUCCC had also used Widewater as a storage facility and my own boat Capricorn is suspected of spending a good many years there.

 

Congratulations by the way Bison is a nice boat and the hull should be really sound after all the work Graeme put into it.

 

Paul H

Edited May 31, 2011 by Paul H

[Laurence Hogg]

If any of you havent read all of this massive thread I suggest you go back and look at the first pages,. Sunk at Hawtreys pit alongside but now not connected to Harefield marina are a large number of narrow and wide beam boats. Known to probably survive on the site are 18 Josher horse boats 11 of which are Iron boats and one wooden motor. There are also rare wide beam boats and other interesting historic craft. The exact number of boats in the pit is not known. The water level is falling and two FMC boats are becoming visible. Please treat the site with care.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[pete harrison]

It is my understanding that FMC BISON is believed to have sunk at Harefield Gravel pits after becoming surplus to requirements in the 1940s. She was then raised and sold into private ownership in the 1950s.

 

If anyone has any further information on Bison I would be interested as the hull is at Stockton and I have in a moment ofmadness just bought it.

 

Sorry if this is a bit off topic

 

Redeye

 

This "story" is absolutely untrue and is unfortunately being perpetuated by its publication on poor quality 'historic' narrow boat websites.

 

I am the custodian of original Bulls Bridge documentation that makes it clear that BISON was fully operational until well into 1955. It was sent to Boyers Pit, Harefield in March 1956 and sold in June 1956. Although there is a possibility that BISON may have sunk during this three month period due to rain water or a hull leak there is no evidence of such in the 'British Waterways' records.

[MarkyP]

Harefield Update

 

With the assistance of Graham Clutton, the Senior Land Agent for London Borough of Hillingdon has been contacted, and a small number of emails exchanged regards the site and contents.

 

My introduction focussed on the rarity of the craft, and the asset they could provide both as a local community access / interaction tool & to increase knowledge in a wider waterway history context.

 

With ongoing interest from the Nautical Archaeological Society, I have introduced this organisation as a potential facilitator, with their Purton & Gosport involvement, experience of working with local authorities and knowledge of acquiring direct funding (http://www.nauticalarchaeologysociety.org/projects/index.php)

 

With the facts now put to LBH, there are obviously a number of Depts who need to be consulted internally, and this is now what is happening.

 

Brgds,

 

Mark

[Laurence Hogg]

This is great news from Mark, just to remind everyone what is there, here are the details:

 

 

The site contains the remains of in excess of 50 boats in theory, some aerial evidence could indicate even more, however some may have been removed over the years. The site is not connected to the Grand Union canal, it is landlocked.

 

The waters are fished by the Harrow Angling club and the site is part of Colne Valley country park contained within the borough of Hillingdon.

 

We would ask, you to not interfere with any of the remains as it is our overall intention to alert National public awareness to this site in the hope that professional recovery and examination will be forthcoming. We have done as much research as time has permitted and are very grateful to certain key enthusiasts who have shared information and also to the Waterways Trust for assisting with this effort.

 

To answer the most obvious question on everyones mind - what is there?

 

The following craft are identifiable and their probable / definite locations are known, this is derived from written BTC evidence, photos and examination of the site:

 

Fellows, Morton & Clayton iron horse boats:

Yardley

Upwood

Jersey

Penkridge

Amesbury

Tring (former Turkey)

Pretoria

Natal

Yeading

Keswick

Iver

 

Wooden horse boats:

Ida

Ena

Dee

Fay

Gladys

Dorset

 

Wooden Motor boat:

Erica

 

A H Taylor horse boat:

Daisy

 

L B Faulkner Horse boat:

Maude

 

Warickshore Canal carrying Co motor boat:

Calder

 

Thos Clayton (Paddington) wooden wide boats:

Jill

David

Trixie

Forget me not

Mavis

Edythe

 

The following are known to be on the site but location is not known:

 

Associated Canal Carriers (Royalty class)(GUCCCo) buttys:

Adelaide

Albert

Alexandra

Countess

 

Thos Clayton (Paddington) wide boats

Alberta

Rose of Tyburn

 

Warickshire Canal Carrying Co:

MB The King

 

Henry Boyer wide boats:

4 iron, 1 steel names not known.

 

BCN Joey

BCN !7928 open iron boat

 

Grand Union Canal Co

Composite Mud hopper

 

All these are probably still there buried under a small amount of spoil, the largest cache of recoverable historic narrowboats known about:

 

Edited September 25, 2011 by Laurence Hogg