A scary moment

[blackrose]

Although some forum members have scoffed at my comments on training. I do believe First Aid in a boating context would be very useful and ...

 

Nobody scoffed, two of us just mentioned that this sort of training can be quickly forgotten unless regular re-training is undertaken.

Edited February 27, 2010 by blackrose

[MartinClark]

Well done to you both for the immediate action you took to stabilise his condition and the further action you took to ensure that his friends would be able to take over from you.

 

I would have said that there is some extra degree of risk for anyone boating alone, regardless of any medical condition they might have. Anyone can injure themselves or fall in and if there is no-one nearby to assist that could lead to the situation becoming worse. Climbing out unaided can be unexpectedly difficult - it can be hard enough to pull someone else out.

 

From what you have written, it seems to me that the guy was incredibly lucky if he fell in while the boat was still in reverse gear, as the greatest danger to him was the risk of serious injury from the propeller.

[Graham Davis]

Well done for all your actions. Isn't it good to know that the majority of people would always try to do something.

 

First Aid courses are run by many Groups, some of which you will have to pay for, but certainly in Wales HEART START WALES will give talks and training to groups for a donation. I suspect that the Britsh Heart Foundation will do the same in Englandshire. HSW even now do simple De-fib courses.

 

Mobile Phones: if you appear to have no signal still try 999, or even better 112. The latter allows "roaming" so will latch onto any phone system to get you through to the Emergency Services.

 

Graham, Instructor, HSW.

[Guest]

Mobile Phones: if you appear to have no signal still try 999, or even better 112. The latter allows "roaming" so will latch onto any phone system to get you through to the Emergency Services.

.

 

That's a useful bit of info. to know _ I thought any network would be latched onto when you use 999 - didn't know it was better to use 112

[DHutch]

Sounds like all worked out well.

 

When tom was boating on the chesterfield he fell in while trying to moor against the bank with the boat quite a long way out due to the shallow edge and i received a phone call from him afterwards when he had got to the point of being sat in his underwear in front of the stove when i had turned up to max.

 

It felt a bit odd hearing about this an been an hour away from being able to do anything at all other than talk, but as far as i know its the only time he has fall in when solo boating for years if ever. He's 81 this year and boating is what he loves. Sounds bit off, but even if he dies boating, he'll die doing something he loves and we all know that. Just because risks are high does mean they shouldn't be taken.

 

 

Daniel

[nb Innisfree]

That's a useful bit of info. to know _ I thought any network would be latched onto when you use 999 - didn't know it was better to use 112

 

Also be aware that keypad locks don't work with these numbers.

[Amduck]

He's 81 this year and boating is what he loves. Sounds bit off, but even if he dies boating, he'll die doing something he loves and we all know that. Just because risks are high does mean they shouldn't be taken.

 

 

Daniel

 

 

Well said, that man. And keeping active doing something you love is likely to keep you healthier than sitting around waiting to die!

[Night Hawk]

My partner's diabetic and has often had a 'hypo' (low sugar) when working through a flight of locks with the kids...Symptoms of low sugar are usually quite obvious and remedies are soon put in place - we have an emergency stash of chocolate biscuits and coke to bring things back to normal. I wonder why the boater in the original post hadn't noticed his hypo and scoffed a few biscuits.

 

No matter - well done to Graham for a job well done.

[nb Innisfree]

My partner's diabetic and has often had a 'hypo' (low sugar) when working through a flight of locks with the kids...Symptoms of low sugar are usually quite obvious and remedies are soon put in place - we have an emergency stash of chocolate biscuits and coke to bring things back to normal. I wonder why the boater in the original post hadn't noticed his hypo and scoffed a few biscuits.

 

No matter - well done to Graham for a job well done.

 

At least you have an excuse, us non diabetic types have to live with our conscience when dipping in to our choccy stash

[Night Hawk]

I've actually caught some of those diabetic types giving themselves a little more insulin that appropriate in order to scoff and extra portion of pudding....shame!!!

[ditchcrawler]

My partner's diabetic and has often had a 'hypo' (low sugar) when working through a flight of locks with the kids...Symptoms of low sugar are usually quite obvious and remedies are soon put in place - we have an emergency stash of chocolate biscuits and coke to bring things back to normal. I wonder why the boater in the original post hadn't noticed his hypo and scoffed a few biscuits.

 

No matter - well done to Graham for a job well done.

Did he have a hypo or an accident which lead to the hypo,extra exertion, cold water, panic etc.

[Dave Winter]

As an emergency drink for a diabetic always carry a bottle of Lucozade on board.

[FrigateCaptain]

Well done chap!

 

I must say mind, being epileptic and suffering nerve problems i still single hand and dont find it a problem, I even work on boats.

As far as I see it, aslong as a condition is managed your ok. I dont need anyone next to me when driving so i dont really see why i would on a boat.

 

When time comes where it would be a issue, the boats being sold

[Hairy-Neil]

I've actually caught some of those diabetic types giving themselves a little more insulin that appropriate in order to scoff and extra portion of pudding....shame!!!

 

My friend who died with the digger used to shoot up more insulin, then go out and have a skinfull on a friday night. He was found dead along side his JCB the following afternoon.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Hairy-Neil

[sociable_hermit]

Don't forget that there are numerous different insulins available now and they work in a variety of ways.

 

I'm on 4 injections a day. One is a background dose (Lantus) which ticks away for 24 hours, and I take that before I go to bed. If I know I'll be locking all day the next day, I'll reduce the dose by a quarter (24 units to 18).

 

The three daytime injections are with very quick acting insulin (Humalog) which only lasts long enough to counteract one meal. This means that it is possible to increase the dosage in order to eat extra food, or sweet food. Far from "cheating" this is accepted medical practice, PROVIDED you still take care to work out the carbohydrates in your meal. The insulin to carbs ratio varies, for calculating the dose you need to inject. The Doctors worked mine out for me as 1 unit of insulin for every 10g of carbohydrate, and that seems to be about right. I can eat what I like provided I balance it with insulin, although the Doctors are still keen to emphasise that diabetics should aim to eat healthily!

 

Again when locking or walking a lot I reduce the mealtime dosages slightly as the exercise does some of the work the insulin would otherwise be doing. It's also worth noting that your muscles continue to use energy the day after lots of exercise, so if you've been particularly busy reduced doses are sometimes necessary the following day too.

 

The old insulins which worked over very long time periods were a real nuisance because once you'd done your injection, you had no flexibility whatsoever. It was in your system and that was that. That's why strict dietary control and a fixed routine were essential. It's also why a lot of diabetic people would insist on having mid-morning and mid-afternoon snacks: because the gaps between meals were too long for the insulin in their bodies.

 

The biggest downside to the 4 injections a day routine is the danger of forgetting an injection or worse, doing it twice. I do so many injections that if I have to stop and think about whether I jabbed myself 5 minutes before, it's easy to accidentally superimpose the memory of yesterday's injections, or maybe the day before that.

 

Alcohol is a tricky one. Most drinks contain lots of carbohydrates so extra insulin is required. However alcohol itself lowers blood sugar, so there's a sting in the tail. Hangover symptoms in non-diabetics are partly caused by low blood sugar levels. Plus drinks don't have nutritional info labels on them in the same way that foods do, so you're guessing.

 

No matter how well I balance my blood sugar levels on a night out, I always have to be really careful at about 3pm the next day, as I will more than likely go 'hypo'. Much as I like a pint it does play havoc with my diabetes control.

[David Schweizer]

I've actually caught some of those diabetic types giving themselves a little more insulin that appropriate in order to scoff and extra portion of pudding....shame!!!

My father was diabetic, and it is not as simple as that. Too much insulin can cause more problems than not enough with some diabetics.

[simonk]

Don't forget that there are numerous different insulins available now and they work in a variety of ways.

 

I'm on 4 injections a day. One is a background dose (Lantus) which ticks away for 24 hours, and I take that before I go to bed. If I know I'll be locking all day the next day, I'll reduce the dose by a quarter (24 units to 18).

 

The three daytime injections are with very quick acting insulin (Humalog) which only lasts long enough to counteract one meal. This means that it is possible to increase the dosage in order to eat extra food, or sweet food. Far from "cheating" this is accepted medical practice, PROVIDED you still take care to work out the carbohydrates in your meal. The insulin to carbs ratio varies, for calculating the dose you need to inject. The Doctors worked mine out for me as 1 unit of insulin for every 10g of carbohydrate, and that seems to be about right. I can eat what I like provided I balance it with insulin, although the Doctors are still keen to emphasise that diabetics should aim to eat healthily!

 

Again when locking or walking a lot I reduce the mealtime dosages slightly as the exercise does some of the work the insulin would otherwise be doing. It's also worth noting that your muscles continue to use energy the day after lots of exercise, so if you've been particularly busy reduced doses are sometimes necessary the following day too.

 

The old insulins which worked over very long time periods were a real nuisance because once you'd done your injection, you had no flexibility whatsoever. It was in your system and that was that. That's why strict dietary control and a fixed routine were essential. It's also why a lot of diabetic people would insist on having mid-morning and mid-afternoon snacks: because the gaps between meals were too long for the insulin in their bodies.

 

The biggest downside to the 4 injections a day routine is the danger of forgetting an injection or worse, doing it twice. I do so many injections that if I have to stop and think about whether I jabbed myself 5 minutes before, it's easy to accidentally superimpose the memory of yesterday's injections, or maybe the day before that.

 

Alcohol is a tricky one. Most drinks contain lots of carbohydrates so extra insulin is required. However alcohol itself lowers blood sugar, so there's a sting in the tail. Hangover symptoms in non-diabetics are partly caused by low blood sugar levels. Plus drinks don't have nutritional info labels on them in the same way that foods do, so you're guessing.

 

No matter how well I balance my blood sugar levels on a night out, I always have to be really careful at about 3pm the next day, as I will more than likely go 'hypo'. Much as I like a pint it does play havoc with my diabetes control.

 

Well done for clearing up at least at some of the myths that have sprouted over the previous pages!

 

There are a lot of misunderstandings about diabetes, it needs to be made clear that low blood sugar ('hypo') is really a sympton of the treatment, not the disease. Also, Type 1 and Type 2, when untreated, are characterised by the same symptoms, caused by an excess of sugar in the blood. For all Type 1 and most Type 2 cases, the only treatment consists of using medications such as insulin.

 

I've heard some people say things like "with one kind you're not allowed any sweet things and in the other you have to eat loads of sugar". This is a very badly incorrect statement.

[Guest]

Don't forget that there are numerous different insulins available now and they work in a variety of ways.

<SNIP>

 

That's an excellent post SH - very clear from the horses mouth and it also clarifies why it's easy to make a mistake.

[Amduck]

I wonder why the boater in the original post hadn't noticed his hypo and scoffed a few biscuits.

 

 

Some people are unlucky enough that, when they go hypo, they do so very quickly and without warning signs. I met one chap who keeled over unconscious while queuing in a cafeteria with a tray of food - when he recovered he said that he had had no idea he was that low.

[sociable_hermit]

I think it's easy to aim for perfection, and then fail.

 

Blood sugar levels are affected by all sorts of variables, and blood sugar control through tablets / injections / diet isn't an exact science. It's easy to get caught out by little things. A cold will mess things up. Restaurant meals where you have to guess the carb content. Missing the bus and having to walk. Clock changes. Those little pots of "milk substitute" that are actually made from glucose.

 

 

It's impossible to get it right all of the time. Accepting that you'll get it wrong and then planning for that, is the safer option.

 

Amduck - another thing I found out recently is that your body gets used to variations in blood sugar level. Long-term diabetics lose some or all of their warning signs because their bodies get used to the variations and stop reacting to them. When the warning signs do kick in the 'hypo' is more advanced and the time left to sort it out is much less. Again, regular blood testing gaurds against this, and having glucose readily to hand at all times helps, but the best measure is to avoid extreme variations in the first place so your system can't get used to them.

 

 

Nonetheless, if anyone else tells me that I can't have a doughnut, when I've just shoved another 5 units of Humalog into my arm specially for it, I shall scream!

Edited March 1, 2010 by sociable_hermit

[Bagpuss]

Some people are unlucky enough that, when they go hypo, they do so very quickly and without warning signs. I met one chap who keeled over unconscious while queuing in a cafeteria with a tray of food - when he recovered he said that he had had no idea he was that low.

 

It is also a problem that the longer one has had diabetes, and the more 'hypo's' one has had, the more tolerance one builds up to said hypo. The other week, I did a routine blood glucose check on one of my patients who has type 1 diabetes, it was 1.8! (a hypo is classed as being below 4.0) Thing is, I would not have been able to tell, just from observing the patient, that anything was wrong, he looked and acted perfectly normal.

[sociable_hermit]

Bagpuss beat my editing!

Edited March 1, 2010 by sociable_hermit

[Sir Nibble]

I do my bit for waterways safety by carrying my "emergency first response" kit with me everywhere. I know now that there is NEVER an incident in sight or shout of a first aider, sod's law applies.

[Amduck]

IAmduck - another thing I found out recently is that your body gets used to variations in blood sugar level. Long-term diabetics lose some or all of their warning signs because their bodies get used to the variations and stop reacting to them. When the warning signs do kick in the 'hypo' is more advanced and the time left to sort it out is much less. Again, regular blood testing gaurds against this, and having glucose readily to hand at all times helps, but the best measure is to avoid extreme variations in the first place so your system can't get used to them.

 

 

Nonetheless, if anyone else tells me that I can't have a doughnut, when I've just shoved another 5 units of Humalog into my arm specially for it, I shall scream!

 

 

It is also a problem that the longer one has had diabetes, and the more 'hypo's' one has had, the more tolerance one builds up to said hypo. The other week, I did a routine blood glucose check on one of my patients who has type 1 diabetes, it was 1.8! (a hypo is classed as being below 4.0) Thing is, I would not have been able to tell, just from observing the patient, that anything was wrong, he looked and acted perfectly normal.

 

 

Thanks for that, both, I didn't know that about hypos.

 

Sociable, I think you are fairly lucky in that you have obviously been helped to be adaptable, and are managing well. I still meet a lot of people on the old system of taking insulin on a set dosage and adapting what they can eat, rather than the newer way of a certain amount of vice versa - although that might be because that's what they're used to and therefore happier with.

 

Bagpuss, we did a fasting glucose test on ourselves at Uni, and my BM went down to 1.something - it was fun watching the lecturers waiting for me to keel over . I also once met a perfectly lucid and well-looking (though not feeling) type 2 diabetic with a BM of 1.2.

[Guest]

I still meet a lot of people on the old system of taking insulin on a set dosage and adapting what they can eat, rather than the newer way of a certain amount of vice versa - although that might be because that's what they're used to and therefore happier with.

 

If they are happy then that's Ok - but I would urge anybody in that position that if they are not, to seek the help of their GP/practice nurse or even better if they can access one a local diabetes specialist nurse.