Liveaboard & Vintage Engines?

[Athy]

Don't you hang yours on the line then?

 

 

And let's get rid of those marinas while we're at it. What's wrong with basins?

Nowt at all: you can take your boat out of one and mix t'Yorkshire pudding in it.

[Chertsey]

I think as things stand the Beta Tug could be the answer for us even if it won't stop me dreaming of a vintage engine.

 

While I like the vintage engines I wouldn't feel that confident due to not being very knowledgable in such things... I followed a link to a clip on youtube which showed someone starting their engine and there were levers, rope and all sorts, the stuff of nightmares for me and though i'm sure they are not all like that the simple turn of a key has it's appeal.

Not all vintage engines are Kelvins or Bolinders! We have an electric start on our 1937 National and it doesn't even need a key - just a button. And given a basic knowledge, I'd say big old lumps are generally easier and simpler to work on than modern engines (though I don't know about the Beta)

 

I was refering to your post no32 wherein you refer to hanging clothes in the engine room...

Yes, but I thought you were making a point about people being able to see them ... Which they can equally on a line in the garden.

[soldthehouse]

Not all vintage engines are Kelvins or Bolinders! We have an electric start on our 1937 National and it doesn't even need a key - just a button. And given a basic knowledge, I'd say big old lumps are generally easier and simpler to work on than modern engines (though I don't know about the Beta)

 

 

Yes, but I thought you were making a point about people being able to see them ... Which they can equally on a line in the garden.

The point being that open engine doors are an automatic enticement to look inside whereas no decent red blooded male with any moral fibre would consider taking a second look at a ladies undergarments on open display in your backyard

[ditchcrawler]

I was refering to your post no32 wherein you refer to hanging clothes in the engine room...

Ours is always full of cloths, towels or something drying. An engine room must be one of the most usefull places on a boat, not a waste of space like people without one think.

[soldthehouse]

Ours is always full of cloths, towels or something drying. An engine room must be one of the most usefull places on a boat, not a waste of space like people without one think.

I would have to agree with that totally we wont know whether to hang things in the engine room or on the aga, what a dilema

[casper ghost]

There is a new Lister engine out now that is a remake of a 'vintage' lister. Has a great sound too. You could consider something like that, though I still feel old engines can be just as reliable, i'm about to fit a 1952 Ruston and Hornsby into mine..

[soldthehouse]

There is a new Lister engine out now that is a remake of a 'vintage' lister. Has a great sound too. You could consider something like that, though I still feel old engines can be just as reliable, i'm about to fit a 1952 Ruston and Hornsby into mine..

Whats this lister casp what size ruston is it, all the best S

[casper ghost]

Whats this lister casp what size ruston is it, all the best S

 

Trying to remember, think the Lister is about 22hp at 1000 rpm twin cylinder. Think Tony Redshaw does them.

 

My Ruston is 15hp at 1500rpm. Cost me 350 plus 40 to recondition injectors and pumps, now starts and runs fine. Got a prm gearbox to remotely fit to it, that cost 130.

[soldthehouse]

Trying to remember, think the Lister is about 22hp at 1000 rpm twin cylinder. Think Tony Redshaw does them.

 

My Ruston is 15hp at 1500rpm. Cost me 350 plus 40 to recondition injectors and pumps, now starts and runs fine. Got a prm gearbox to remotely fit to it, that cost 130.

Who says you need to spend thousands eh. The one in my photos runs like a watch and cost £311 I bought one gearbox that was nicked and won another for 99p then gave the guy £50 cos I was embarrassed, Adds to the fun eh, best wishes for next year when it comes mate I wont be on here much longer tonight, regards Stuart

[nb Innisfree]

Alan, I doubt if many people choosing a boat to live on would forsake the comfort and stability of a 33 inch draught for the dubious benefit of being able to travel just half a mile an hour faster on those few stretches of shallow canal where it has an effect - if the choice is to be a traditional marine engine, even where it is necessary to travel half a mile an hour slower, the satisfying thump, thump of a slow running diesel will more than compensate. As I have said before the canals do not really provide the right environment for those whose only objective is speed.

 

Aren't nearly all of these 'traditional marine' diesels not marine diesels at all but just yesteryears marinised industrial engines? Very nice but industrial all the same.

[NB Alnwick]

Aren't nearly all of these 'traditional marine' diesels not marine diesels at all but just yesteryears marinised industrial engines? Very nice but industrial all the same.

 

I think you must be thinking of modern canal boat engines which are most often marinised versions of industrial, dumper truck or automotive engines.

 

When I talk about a 'traditional marine diesel' I mean a slow running, reliable and economical diesel that was designed and built specifically for propelling a boat. In this category I would also include those Gardner and Lister (along with many built by other manufacturers) products with proven reliability that were designed for a variety of applications but where the designers always including appropriate marine specifications.

[soldthehouse]

I think you must be thinking of modern canal boat engines which are most often marinised versions of industrial, dumper truck or automotive engines.

 

When I talk about a 'traditional marine diesel' I mean a slow running, reliable and economical diesel that was designed and built specifically for propelling a boat. In this category I would also include those Gardner and Lister (along with many built by other manufacturers) products with proven reliability that were designed for a variety of applications but where the designers always including appropriate marine specifications.

Nicely put.

[casper ghost]

What about an industrial engine, now marinised, which the manufacturers also made a marine version of. Like my Ruston, it ran a generator on a farm but Ruston did produce a marine version too.

[Athy]

Mr. House, the Lister in question is in fact an Indian-built "Listeroid" based on the Lister CE. It was featured in one of the boatimags 3 or 4 months ago. Redshaw's import them, take them apart and reassemble them properly. Tips the scales at £9,750. Oddly, last time I looked on their web site there was no mention of it, but I suspect that Redshaw pere et fils have better things to do than maintain their web site!

[soldthehouse]

Mr. House, the Lister in question is in fact an Indian-built "Listeroid" based on the Lister CE. It was featured in one of the boatimags 3 or 4 months ago. Redshaw's import them, take them apart and reassemble them properly. Tips the scales at £9,750. Oddly, last time I looked on their web site there was no mention of it, but I suspect that Redshaw pere et fils have better things to do than maintain their web site!

Thanks for info. Theres a guy up york way, stationaryengineparts, selling cs type listeroids, havent priced them lately but they were just under and over a grand and while they are different must cost about the same ex works. Initial batches were of suspect quality but feedback appears to have encouraged radical improvements to bearings and casting quality.

 

What about an industrial engine, now marinised, which the manufacturers also made a marine version of. Like my Ruston, it ran a generator on a farm but Ruston did produce a marine version too.

The early diesels were designed as stationary engines for a multitude of applications I have a three cylinder mclaren that stated life in a fishing boat and spent twenty years running a line shaft in a sawmill. most of the early designs were desiged to be multifunctional with modification packages as you say.

[Athy]

I think I may have meant CS, not CE - I no longer have the magazine article to refer to.

[charles123]

Mr. House, the Lister in question is in fact an Indian-built "Listeroid" based on the Lister CE. It was featured in one of the boatimags 3 or 4 months ago. Redshaw's import them, take them apart and reassemble them properly. Tips the scales at £9,750. Oddly, last time I looked on their web site there was no mention of it, but I suspect that Redshaw pere et fils have better things to do than maintain their web site!

 

You can of course get a completely rebuilt Lister JP2 or Gardner 2LW for about £11k complete with new gearbox, Less again for the 3 cylinder engines of course as more readily available and less desirable and less again for a 4LW for example for the same reasons so as good as new for all of them, with a history v brand new import with no history, or you could have an imported new India Ruston Hornsby equivalent for the same as the imported Lister or a new Russell Newbury for about £16k (not certain if the cost is correct for the Russell)

 

I quite like the idea of having a recycled engine that has some heritage, up to 50yrs old from an old barge/other boat/pump/mine loco/generator etc

 

But then again you could have the Beta Tug! I don't know what ones of those costs and I cant think of anything good to say about it v a vintage engine. As always its a personal choice

 

Charles

[Athy]

Yes Charles, I do indeed have a rebuilt Gardner 2LW, and yes, that's what it cost from Walsh's Engineering. But your assertion that bigger ones cost less surprises me; can anyone substantiate this?

I guess the thing about the Lister(oid) is that it's guaranteed to be brand new throughout; unless you're an engineer, which I am not, you can't be sure how much of a rebuilt engine is new and how much is the the old bits given a metaphorical wipe with an oily rag. I do not think that Longboat Engineering import the Indian Rustons (badged as Greaves) any more. As for heritage, yes, I do enjoy the knowledge that my engine spent about 40 years powering a narrow gauge railway locomotive in South Africa.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Athy

[Timleech]

Yes Charles, I do indeed have a rebuilt Gardner 2LW, and yes, that's what it cost from Walsh's Engineering. But your assertion that bigger ones cost less surprises me; can anyone substantiate this?

I guess the thing about the Lister(oid) is that it's guaranteed to be brand new throughout; unless you're an engineer, which I am not, you can't be sure how much of a rebuilt engine is new and how much is the the old bits given a metaphorical wipe with an oily rag. I do not think that Longboat Engineering import the Indian Rustons (badged as Greaves) any more. As for heritage, yes, I do enjoy the knowledge that my engine spent about 40 years powering a narrow gauge railway locomotive in South Africa.

 

I don't know what the going rates are these days, but there has always been a premium on 2-cyl classic engines for the narrow boat market, generally the most suitable size and they sound right.

That's the purchase price for a base unit for rebuilding or good useable units, of course the rebuilding will cost more for more cylinders.

 

Tim

Edited January 1, 2010 by Timleech

[soldthehouse]

You can of course get a completely rebuilt Lister JP2 or Gardner 2LW for about £11k complete with new gearbox, Less again for the 3 cylinder engines of course as more readily available and less desirable and less again for a 4LW for example for the same reasons so as good as new for all of them, with a history v brand new import with no history, or you could have an imported new India Ruston Hornsby equivalent for the same as the imported Lister or a new Russell Newbury for about £16k (not certain if the cost is correct for the Russell)

 

I quite like the idea of having a recycled engine that has some heritage, up to 50yrs old from an old barge/other boat/pump/mine loco/generator etc

 

But then again you could have the Beta Tug! I don't know what ones of those costs and I cant think of anything good to say about it v a vintage engine. As always its a personal choice

 

Charles

My sentiments in a nutshell, happy new year

 

Yes Charles, I do indeed have a rebuilt Gardner 2LW, and yes, that's what it cost from Walsh's Engineering. But your assertion that bigger ones cost less surprises me; can anyone substantiate this?

I guess the thing about the Lister(oid) is that it's guaranteed to be brand new throughout; unless you're an engineer, which I am not, you can't be sure how much of a rebuilt engine is new and how much is the the old bits given a metaphorical wipe with an oily rag. I do not think that Longboat Engineering import the Indian Rustons (badged as Greaves) any more. As for heritage, yes, I do enjoy the knowledge that my engine spent about 40 years powering a narrow gauge railway locomotive in South Africa.

The quality of castings which obviously hold everything together is questionable as well as the rest of the engineering. the analogy i would use would be the quality of the shell i am building as opposed to say tim tyler or mike heywood etc, theres no comparison

 

I don't know what the going rates are these days, but there has always been a premium on 2-cyl classic engines for the narrow boat market, generally the most suitable size and they sound right.

That's the purchase price for a base unit for rebuilding or good useable units, of course the rebuilding will cost more for more cylinders.

 

Tim

In reality while the costs always seem high for these engines they are in fact tremendous value and I would have a professionally rebuilt old engine if I could.

[charles123]

Yes Charles, I do indeed have a rebuilt Gardner 2LW, and yes, that's what it cost from Walsh's Engineering. But your assertion that bigger ones cost less surprises me; can anyone substantiate this?

I guess the thing about the Lister(oid) is that it's guaranteed to be brand new throughout; unless you're an engineer, which I am not, you can't be sure how much of a rebuilt engine is new and how much is the the old bits given a metaphorical wipe with an oily rag. I do not think that Longboat Engineering import the Indian Rustons (badged as Greaves) any more. As for heritage, yes, I do enjoy the knowledge that my engine spent about 40 years powering a narrow gauge railway locomotive in South Africa.

 

My own enquiries have focused on 2 cylinder engines of late since that's my interest for my own boat project however I have seen adverts regularly for 3LW and 4LW for sale eg Tangent Engineering for less than £11k, there is a nice looking 4LW advertised below for £5k, which appears too cheap!!

 

http://engines.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?...586ℑ=1

 

Charles

[Athy]

It does look too cheap - though that price (£3,995) does not include a gearbox. I don't know how much of the price of mine was for the gearbox, a new PRM. I see he's currently restoring a 2LW; if the price is comparable, it could be worth your having a look.

[wrigglefingers]

As some of you know, I elected to put a Beta Tug in Cobbett. The decision was made very early in the build process as David had found one with a PRM260 gearbox which had amassed all of 300 hours on the clock which had been replaced by a Gardner 4LW. It cost me significantly less than a new engine (considerably less than half price in fact).

 

As we've not commissioned her I can't comment on how she will run, but, some things that I do know are: spares are available and relatively cheap as the engine is still in production. the engine is capable of driving the alternators (110 and 160 amp) and the hydraulics with ease, she'll be sufficiently powerful enough to cope with river cruising, I can work how to service her myself and if I need specialist help it won't be too difficult to find locally.

 

I would have loved to have put a Gardner or Sabb or Kelvin or Lister in Cobbett, but without any specialist knowledge I wouldn't have had a clue where to begin or to have been able to assess the quality of a potential engine. From what I've heard on the grapevine, some engine sellers can be none too scrupulous at times and I have experienced being the only female in the garage before....! Moreover, when I've expressed my doubts about whether I shouldn't have been braver with my engine, I've been reassured by a number of well qualified folk that I've made the right choice; even by the bloke who tried to flog me a restored JP3!

 

When I've learnt more about engines and am competent to look after it properly I'll perhaps think about it again (I have made sure we can get the engines in and out of the engine room though!). I still haven't mastered the intricacies of speed and gear wheels without hitting gates yet, so don't hold your breath - women boaters eh?!

 

Edited because I'm still crop with syntax.

Edited January 1, 2010 by wrigglefingers

[soldthehouse]

As some of you know, I elected to put a Beta Tug in Cobbett. The decision was made very early in the build process as David had found one with a PRM260 gearbox which had amassed all of 300 hours on the clock which had been replaced by a Gardner 4LW. It cost me significantly less than a new engine (considerably less than half price in fact).

 

As we've not commissioned her I can't comment on how she will run, but, something I do know are: spares are available and relatively cheap as the engine is still in production. the engine is capable of driving the alternators (110 and 160 amp) and the hydraulics with ease, she'll be sufficiently powerful enough to cope with river cruising, I can work how to service her myself and if I need specialist help it won't be too difficult to find locally.

 

I would have loved to have put a Gardner or Sabb or Kelvin or Lister in Cobbett, but without any specialist knowledge I wouldn't have had a clue where to begin or to have been able to assess the quality of a potential engine. From what I've heard on the grapevine, some engine sellers can be none too scrupulous at times and I have experienced being the only female in the garage before....! Moreover, when I've expressed my doubts about whether I shouldn't have been braver with my engine, I've been reassured by a number of well qualified folk that I've made the right choice; even by the bloke who tried to flog me a restored JP3!

 

When I've learnt more about engines and am competent to look after it properly I'll perhaps think about it again (I have made sure we can get the engines in and out of the engine room though!). I still haven't mastered the intricacies of speed and gear wheels without hitting gates yet, so don't hold your breath - women boaters eh?!

At least you arent adopting the "I think the engines down there somewhere approach" Its always nice to see someone willing to learn and I think you have made the right decision for your circumstances good luck and keep us informed..

[LEO]

Yes Charles, I do indeed have a rebuilt Gardner 2LW, and yes, that's what it cost from Walsh's Engineering. But your assertion that bigger ones cost less surprises me; can anyone substantiate this?

I guess the thing about the Lister(oid) is that it's guaranteed to be brand new throughout; unless you're an engineer, which I am not, you can't be sure how much of a rebuilt engine is new and how much is the the old bits given a metaphorical wipe with an oily rag. I do not think that Longboat Engineering import the Indian Rustons (badged as Greaves) any more. As for heritage, yes, I do enjoy the knowledge that my engine spent about 40 years powering a narrow gauge railway locomotive in South Africa.

 

 

Athy,

 

I have a similar 2LW to you, and this size of engine is just right for a narrowboat.

 

The larger engines such as 4LW's are cheaper because the range of applications is much more limited - they are too big for use in narrowboats. They can be fitted but will give a generally poor performance because they are not worked hard enough with canal use.

 

3LW's can be used and peform well if satisfactorily matched to the propeller.

 

I have seen a 6L2 in a boat based on the canal (it was designed for use on the Tidal Thames) but the engine takes up a large amount of space.

 

One engineering company is hoping to build a new 2LW this year, and is in the process of casting the engine block.

 

Tangent Engineering are based in Ireland.

 

Leo