BSS on a 3 year old boat?

[boots]

Hi,

 

we are currently looking for our first boat, and have just come across a situation for the first time - namely a 3 year old boat with a BSS rather than an RCD.

 

What is the situation here - does the BSS over-ride the need of an RCD? which is the more stringent?

 

(The boat is a self fit-out by the current owner),

 

appreciate any comments,

 

regards,

 

Boots

[alan_fincher]

Hi,

 

we are currently looking for our first boat, and have just come across a situation for the first time - namely a 3 year old boat with a BSS rather than an RCD.

 

What is the situation here - does the BSS over-ride the need of an RCD? which is the more stringent?

 

(The boat is a self fit-out by the current owner),

 

appreciate any comments,

 

regards,

 

Boots

I don't know chapter and verse on this, but am pretty certain that what the current owner is trying to do is illegal, and he could face prosecution if he sold this boat before it is (I think) five years old.

 

Whilst you can buy a shell and fit it out for your own use without going through the RCD process, I think it is explicitly a condition that you musn't sell it on for at least the first 5 years.

 

Others will correct me if there are exceptions to that, I'm sure, but if you buy a modern boat that is not RCD certified, I'd expect questions to be asked if you yourself subsequently needed to sell it.

 

I suspect this is a case of "walk away!"

 

Alan

[Dave-Shrop]

Exclusions

 

(vii) craft built for own use, provided that they are not subsequently placed on the

Community market during a period of five years;

 

The exclusion in article 1.2.(a)(vii) concerns craft built by their future user, provided that

they are not placed on the market in the EEA within five years of being put into service. This

does not preclude the sub-contracting, by the builder, of specialists in certain aspects of the

fitting out of the boat e.g. electrical or electronic engineers.

 

David

[boots]

Thanks for this, it confirms my understanding,

 

will go back and check out the situation as to whether one actually exists...it is possible that we just haven't seen it yet.....

 

thanks again,

 

Boots

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks for this, it confirms my understanding,

 

will go back and check out the situation as to whether one actually exists...it is possible that we just haven't seen it yet.....

 

thanks again,

 

Boots

There has been a thread on this in the past few months with lots of information. I think the out come was, no RCD walk away.

[boots]

Don't suppose you can remember the link? - did try searching but didn't come up with anything relevant,

 

cheers

[Guest User]

Hi

 

I think this was it ... Old thread CLICKY

[denboy]

you can have a retro rcd done,or rather the owner can

[Gary Peacock]

you can have a retro rcd done,or rather the owner can

 

Knowing a little bit about this I would say doing it retrospectively is more about handing money over to some one to just fudge it if not outright fiddle it.

,

The RCD work starts before the boat even starts to be built if it's compliant you would complete the paperwork in the first place, considering the legal implications and adverse effect on the value you would be a fool not too.

 

I would hazard a pretty good guess that about 60% of new narrowboats that are CE marked actually achieve very little in the way of RCD compliance but this is very much the nature of the ditch crawling market where legal requirements are largely seen as a stick in the works that reduces profits.

[sueb]

If the owner dies within the five year period does the estate have to hang onto the boat till the five years pass?

Sue

[Nickhlx]

If the owner dies within the five year period does the estate have to hang onto the boat till the five years pass?

Sue

 

 

Good question !!

 

Nick

[soldthehouse]

If the owner dies within the five year period does the estate have to hang onto the boat till the five years pass?

Sue

Clever girl

[bottle]

The boat is still less than five years old from completion and built as a self fitout so cannot legally be sold.

 

The executors would need to get it retro RCD.

 

The self build will probably have an annexe3 RCD, from the shell builder but still needs a full RCD to comply.

[blackrose]

There has been a thread on this in the past few months with lots of information. I think the out come was, no RCD walk away.

Unless it's over 5 years old.

(Just for clarity)

[ditchcrawler]

Unless it's over 5 years old.

(Just for clarity)

True but this boat is only 3 years old

[blackrose]

True but this boat is only 3 years old

Yes I know. I was clarifying for anyone who might read your post as a general comment.

[ChrisPy]

The self build will probably have an annexe3 RCD, from the shell builder but still needs a full RCD to comply.

another question comes to mind - what if the boat has the Annex 3, but is sold on as a partially completed fit-out? The work which has been done by the fitter-outer should comply with the ISO standards, but if the work is incomplete it cannot be certified as RCD compliant.

 

A couple of check questions the potential buyer should ask: What is the Craft Identification Number, and where is the builder's plaque? If the vendor cannot provide an immediate response then you know he has not even attempted to comply with RCD.

[boots]

Am hoping to clarify the situation later today.

 

Have been doing some digging, and everything I discover endorses the comments earlier (even the 'Act' itself makes this quite clear) - If it is to be sold on the open market within 5 years of completion, then RCD compliance is required. There are exemptions to this, but none of them seem to cover what I normally class as a leisure narrowboat.

 

I am surprised at the builder in this instance, since while they are not a professional boat builder, I am under the impression that i) it was built with the intention to sell on and ii) it's not their first build.

 

 

I wonder what the implications of buying a boat without a valid RCD would be (not that we would consider it), but I know in our situation it would be very easy to have completed the purchase 'in ignorance' - had it not been for these forum's I would not have been aware that an RCD is a requirement.

 

So while there are penalties for a builder in selling without an RCD, apart from potential loss in value of the boat - wonder if there are any other liabilities for the purchaser? Just a thought.

 

Wonder if any one has actually been prosecuted for breaching RCD rules, or is this just another layer of bureaucracy?

 

boots

[boots]

Update on the OP - yes the seller does need an RCD, and they are aware of this - this is in the process of being completed and would be available before any sale.

[Gary Peacock]

So while there are penalties for a builder in selling without an RCD, apart from potential loss in value of the boat - wonder if there are any other liabilities for the purchaser? Just a thought.

 

Wonder if any one has actually been prosecuted for breaching RCD rules, or is this just another layer of bureaucracy?

 

 

There is a potential £5K fine an or 3 months imprisonment.

 

But probably the worst thing that many don't realise is that by fiddling the paperwork and putting your name to it you become legally responsible for any future incidents involving the boat even if these occur many years later.

 

People have been prosecuted but unfortunately it seems they were the easy targets rather than those who are very obviously fiddling the RCD for a financial advantage.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Gary Peacock

[ChrisPy]

Update on the OP - yes the seller does need an RCD, and they are aware of this - this is in the process of being completed and would be available before any sale.

the real issue is : are the RCD papers just being written up as a formality, or does the boat actually comply with the various ISOs?

if the seller is doing his own, I suggest you ask him a few searching questions.

[boots]

the real issue is : are the RCD papers just being written up as a formality, or does the boat actually comply with the various ISOs?

if the seller is doing his own, I suggest you ask him a few searching questions.

 

 

Would be grateful for any suggestions as to what would be good questions to ask,

[ChrisPy]

Would be grateful for any suggestions as to what would be good questions to ask,

I gave you 2 in an earlier post. Builder's Plaque and Craft Identifcation Number.

 

Ask to see the Technical File, and check for:

owner's manual with all the certification for major components, appliances, etc.

conformity certificate for the engine - noise and pollution

calculations of ventilation areas,

stability calculations,

height of downflooding openings above the waterline in extreme conditions,

safe number of occupants,

wiring diagrams,

fire precautions

 

to name a few critical areas.

 

It is not enough just to write a certificate of conformity and give it to the buyer.

[Gary Peacock]

I gave you 2 in an earlier post. Builder's Plaque and Craft Identifcation Number.

 

Ask to see the Technical File, and check for:

owner's manual with all the certification for major components, appliances, etc.

conformity certificate for the engine - noise and pollution

calculations of ventilation areas,

stability calculations,

height of downflooding openings above the waterline in extreme conditions,

safe number of occupants,

wiring diagrams,

fire precautions

 

to name a few critical areas.

 

It is not enough just to write a certificate of conformity and give it to the buyer.

 

 

The thing is you are spot on here but we now have a new money making spin developing involving the RCD, not only have some builders skimped on RCD compliance to maximise profits but we now have a new breed of surveyors/consultants clamouring to take peoples money to qualify boats.

 

This service often amounts to little more than handing over a "stock" example of the required paperwork for the owner to put their signature too. (Little do the customers know the legal responsibility they are taking on with that signature regardless of the money they handed over for the paperwork!)

Edited November 3, 2009 by Gary Peacock