So what did working boats get up to in the 70;s

[madcat]

What carrying and other use was the old boats put to in the 70's.I only remember Redshank as a trip boat and the butty just being there.Neither of them interested me as much as the suction dredgers that operated out of Bristol or the fishing boats from Grimsby [been taken to see them as a kid] or the tugs and small ships that were about the place.Dont really know how I got to end up as a boatowner,blame the Boat Museum maybe. Anyway Im not into dressing up and re enacting anything but as its still 1973 on Halsall what would the both of us have been doing?Nothing dodgy though,dont want to be helping Gene Hunt with his enquiries.No jokes about canals on Mars either.I know Halsall was dumped in the Wendover arm till rescued by Three Fellows but what else was happening to some of the other boats.

[Phil Speight]

What carrying and other use was the old boats put to in the 70's.I only remember Redshank as a trip boat and the butty just being there.Neither of them interested me as much as the suction dredgers that operated out of Bristol or the fishing boats from Grimsby [been taken to see them as a kid] or the tugs and small ships that were about the place.Dont really know how I got to end up as a boatowner,blame the Boat Museum maybe. Anyway Im not into dressing up and re enacting anything but as its still 1973 on Halsall what would the both of us have been doing?Nothing dodgy though,dont want to be helping Gene Hunt with his enquiries.No jokes about canals on Mars either.I know Halsall was dumped in the Wendover arm till rescued by Three Fellows but what else was happening to some of the other boats.

What Halsall and Badsey got up to up the Wendover arm is nobody`s business but their own !

Philx

[alan_fincher]

Yep,

 

Halsall was one of maybe about 15 dumped in the Wendover Arm.

 

It was a place of fascination to me, and I was regularly down there with my brothers climbing over them, albeit that by the time we discovered them they had been stripped of just about anything of value that could easily be carried away.

 

Most of the motors, (all with PD2s) retained the main engine, block and head, and I think the gearboxes, but anything that would unbolt had largely been removed, and certainly anything "non ferrous".

 

I'm told this was "the second lot of Wendover boats", but wasn't aware of that at the time.

 

It was not a fixed list, entirely, as curiously one or two would get removed for a bit, then maybe re-appear.

 

I guess you have seen this thread.....

 

Link to old thread

 

which contained following from Paul H

 

OK not so much of a definitive list of the second Wendover sale, more of a "what happened to the old Willow Wren boats list."

 

1973 Wendover Sale

Motors:

Alton Narrow Boat Trust

Badsey Jim Yates of Norton Canes

Belfast Dacorum Project

Buxton hired to Threefellows

Coleshill Foxton Boat Services

Halsall Hired to Threefellows

Nuneaton Narrow Boat Trust

Slough retained by BW for conversion to inspection launch

Sudbury retained by BW for conversion to tug

Tarporley L B Camden

Butties:

Aboyne hired to Threefellows

Alperton Union Canal Carriers

Ara Tom Sewell (paired with Phobus) possibly not a direct sale

Banbury hired to Threefellows

Baildon Malcolm Braine - converted

Bedworth Hired to Stevens & Keay

Beverley Hired to Stevens & Keay

Bideford retained by BW as mud boat, latter sold to UCC

Bingley Malcolm Edge (present owner of Minnow)

Bordesley Hired to Stevens & Keay

Capella Bob Bush (son of Binkie Bush of the NBOC)

Cygnus Hired to Stevens & Keay

Satellite Narrow Boat Trust

Toucan Malcolm Braine – converted for Tony Grantham of BW (!)

 

 

Hired boats seemed to be have been later “sold” to the operator. Stevens and Keay was a partnership between Ken Keay and Caggy Stevens.

 

Paul H

 

I don't recall all these at the time we were there, but can confirm all the following ones listed in "Blossom's" post in that thread, except Badsey which I can't recall seeing.

 

I bought my first boat, a big Woolwich butty Bingley off the second Wendover tender and below is a list of boats taken from my notes when I went to view them. Incidently Bingley was painted in WW colours but not sign written

Motors Tarporley, Alton, Halsall,Belfast, Sudbury, Coleshill, Nuneaton and Badsey

ButtiesSatelite, Toucan, Bingley, Baildon, Alperton

 

We also saw

 

Motors Buxton

Butties Aboyne & Banbury

 

Pauls list of where they went fits in well with what I know, where I do, but his knowledge is much greater, so he lists several I could not have done.

 

We put in a highly optimistic bid on Belfast, but as far as I know the official line was that all had gone to charities or companies where they would get further work, (the reality I guess was rather different).

 

My brother worked briefly on the Soar gravel traffic with ThreeFellows, so I guess it involved some of the boats that they took, but I don't know which he lived on or crewed - a fairly shambolic operation, I believe. I'll try and find out more when we next speak.

 

Arguably by the time the the last Blue Line delivery had been done to the "Jam 'Ole", the only true regular narrowbaot traffic was that on the Brentford to Boxmoor Roses Lime Juice barrels. BW retained it for a bit before independent carriers, one a forum member, took it over.

[madcat]

A bit about the limejuice, T J Harrisons used to pick up barrels of lime juice from the West Indies and bring it to West India dock London.So some of that limjuice travelled in Craftsman or Bioghrapher,my husbands 2 favorite ships. As an engineer he didnt have much to do with cargo but thinks that it used to be loaded onto lighters using ships derricks and must have been transferred to narrowboat elsewhere.This was in the sixties.

Photos I have seen of camping boats show clothed up but fairly empty boats,a floating scout camp.I imagine a lot of people got hooked on canals after going on one of these camping boat holidays as a youngster.

[Speedwheel]

What Halsall and Badsey got up to up the Wendover arm is nobody`s business but their own !

Philx

 

I've got a picture of Badsey up the Wendover when Jill and Dave went to look at it. I'll see if I can find it.

[alan_fincher]

Photos I have seen of camping boats show clothed up but fairly empty boats,a floating scout camp.I imagine a lot of people got hooked on canals after going on one of these camping boat holidays as a youngster.

All the camping boats I saw typically had six two-deck bunks, (usually ex army), to give an occupancy of 12 per boat.

 

There was a fairly rudimentary kitchen, (kitchen sink-unit, cooker), but often no fridge.

 

Toilet arrangements were a bucket-n-chuckit, (the genuine galvanised tub with wooden seat sort), sometimes in the cratch, but often the boats had a door into the front locker, making it a dark and crouching experience.

 

I think most operated with crews when it was a pair, or as self-steer for a motor on it's own, although they would probably provide a single boat with a steerer sometimes.

 

Outfits included....

 

Union Canal Carriers, at Braunston, (almost certainly the biggest).

Birmingham & Midland, from Brum.

Threefellows, on the Leicester/Soar

Foxton Boat Services, as err.... Foxton!

Collier Brothers at Leighton Buzzard.

 

Not sure if Tam & Di Murrell ever had camping pairs - Tam will say, I'm sure!

 

A recently published picture makes it pretty clear that Wyvern Shipping used some of their carrying boats in this way too, before actual conversions to hire cruisers.

 

One of my abiding memories when myself and two brothers took out a UCC motor for a week, (just us!), was that the top cloths and side sheets were so poor we struggled to find three dry beds! With 12 on board there would have been no chance of staying dry at all.

 

I'd love to remember what costs were, but if three of us managed to finance a boat intended for 12, it can't have been silly money.

 

Here's the baot we hied, ("Bexhill"), beyond our own boat, which is how we arrived there!

 

Carl will know the boat who's bows just appear, I think!

 

[pete harrison]

What carrying and other use was the old boats put to in the 70's.I only remember Redshank as a trip boat and the butty just being there.Neither of them interested me as much as the suction dredgers that operated out of Bristol or the fishing boats from Grimsby [been taken to see them as a kid] or the tugs and small ships that were about the place.Dont really know how I got to end up as a boatowner,blame the Boat Museum maybe. Anyway Im not into dressing up and re enacting anything but as its still 1973 on Halsall what would the both of us have been doing?Nothing dodgy though,dont want to be helping Gene Hunt with his enquiries.No jokes about canals on Mars either.I know Halsall was dumped in the Wendover arm till rescued by Three Fellows but what else was happening to some of the other boats.

 

HALSALL was laid up at Bulls bridge by late November 1969 and was on the Wendover Arm by April 1970. On 12 July 1970 HALSALL was recorded as still being on the Wendover and retaining a Petter PD2 (I have the serial number !) but badly looted. HALSALL remained on the Wendover Arm for the next year or so being removed by Threefellows Carrying in about September 1971. HALSALL was initially hired to Threefellows Carrying although it was eventually sold to them in 1976. HALSALL was first used by Threefellows Carrying as a camping boat (a popular business during the 1970's employing numerous 'historic' narrow boats) and entered the Thurmaston Gravel traffic in August 1976 where it remained until becoming redundant. I saw HALSALL at Sawley in 1988 when I was interested in buying one of their buttys (I soon after bought BADSEY and BARNES instead) and again on 20 October 1990 when I photographed all of the redundant boats there as the starting point of my G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. narrow boat fleet survey. A friend of mine bought HALSALL from Threefellows Carrying in 1992, and the rest as they say is history.

 

An interesting series of articles on Threefellows Carrying has recently been published in the H.N.B.O.C. NEWSLETTER, although all of the previous paragraph is from my own records.

 

The '1973 Wendover Sale' refered to by Paul Hunter in another thread was actually in 1971, with most boats being removed during August and early September. I have details of all of the Wendover Arm disposals, both 1968 and 1971, if anybody is interested in specific boats.

 

Incidentally;

 

COLESHILL was one of several boats acquired by M.E. Braine / J. Yates in August 1971 and did not go to Foxton Boat Services until 1972, via Doug Greaves (OTLEY & BODMIN).

 

ARA was a direct sale to Tom Sewel and although BEDWORTH, BEVERLEY, BORDESLEY, CYGNUS were hired to Stevens and Keay, Oldbury from 01 March 1971 they were sold to Alan (Caggy) Stevens, Oldbury on 04 December 1979. I have no record of any of these five boats ever being on the Wendover Arm.

 

 

I've got a picture of Badsey up the Wendover when Jill and Dave went to look at it. I'll see if I can find it.

 

 

When Roy Jamieson was the Archivist at British Waterways Board Gloucester Archive (pre The Waterways Trust) he showed me photographs of all of the boats on the Wendover Arm in 1971. These were detailed photographs as a part of the pre-sale survey of each boat and included internal cabin and engine room pictures. BADSEY was shown to have a wardrobe in place of the table cupboard, a common alteration in a motorboat cabin back then.

[alan_fincher]

The '1973 Wendover Sale' refered to by Paul Hunter in another thread was actually in 1971, with most boats being removed during August and early September. I have details of all of the Wendover Arm disposals, both 1968 and 1971, if anybody is interested in specific boats.

Pete,

 

I would be interested about what you know of Badsey around it's Wendover period.

 

I suspect I have had memory loss on that one, and it must have been there when we were visiting Tringford, but I can only remember it after it was out of there and being worked on.

 

I am confident that odd boats had a habit of disappearing from there, sometimes then returning, but can't remember which. It can have been no mean feat to get them in or out. All boats pointed "away from" the GU, so would have had to have been dragged out backwards. I think the nearest place any tug could have turned was only just past New Mill, beyond the flour mill, so even they would have needed to reverse in shallow waters a fair bit.

 

Do any pictures exist of any of the boats being removed, does anybody know? The NBT site, (Alton, Nuneaton, Satellite), shows some general pictures of all the boats at the end of the arm, and some of moving boats with outboards, but they do not seem to be captioned as to when or where they were taken.

[madcat]

I would love to see the photos of the boats especially detailed ones of Halsall,also of Badsey and Bexhill.Where might these photos be,would they have got transferred to the archive at E Port?What other info have you got on Halsall and do you have any photos of the boat as it was when it left the gravel trade.

Looks like I will have to dig out my flares and the camp beds,the 8 tracks bust but I still got my 12v cassette player so I can listen to some of my old favorite music on my "brixton suitcase",[almost as big as an old valve wireless]

[the grinch]

to back a 70ft boat out from the stop lock only takes around 40 minutes

i did it several times with my old boat and it is fairly easy to do at the right speed.

[Timleech]

It shouldn't be forgotten that not all 'camping boats' of the period were Narrow Boats; Peter Froud ran the JUNE as a camping boat on the Leeds & Liverpool for several years (I acted as steerer from time to time), and ISTR Geoff Wheat doing camping trips with a Short Boat.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

to back a 70ft boat out from the stop lock only takes around 40 minutes

i did it several times with my old boat and it is fairly easy to do at the right speed.

Fair point, but was that then, or more recently ?

 

My memory was of a channel very much shallower then than now, and also there used to be lines of derelict boats sunk reducing the channel at the Marsworth end of the arm.

 

Considerably faster this way, though!

 

[madcat]

Reckon a wide boat would make a brilliant camping boat,think Severn is currently getting out and about with a minimalst camping type set up.

[alan_fincher]

It shouldn't be forgotten that not all 'camping boats' of the period were Narrow Boats; Peter Froud ran the JUNE as a camping boat on the Leeds & Liverpool for several years (I acted as steerer from time to time), and ISTR Geoff Wheat doing camping trips with a Short Boat.

 

Tim

Yes,

 

And I feel quite confident there are other narrow boat outfits I left from my list - probably just single pairs, in some cases.

 

Birmingham and Midland still seem to operate a pair, but I have no idea how facilities on board compare now to then. (I can't see the average teenager considering a week or longer without a bath to be a very good holiday these days - in a politically correct world, I'll not risk assumptions about sex of teenager more likely to miss the washing facilities, though!).

 

 

Reckon a wide boat would make a brilliant camping boat,think Severn is currently getting out and about with a minimalst camping type set up.

There still seem to be a lot of "camping boats" around the system.....

 

I think they are called "Sail-Aways", and can often be distinguished by their battleship grey or red oxide primer livery.

[pete harrison]

All the camping boats I saw typically had six two-deck bunks, (usually ex army), to give an occupancy of 12 per boat.

 

There was a fairly rudimentary kitchen, (kitchen sink-unit, cooker), but often no fridge.

 

Toilet arrangements were a bucket-n-chuckit, (the genuine galvanised tub with wooden seat sort), sometimes in the cratch, but often the boats had a door into the front locker, making it a dark and crouching experience.

 

I think most operated with crews when it was a pair, or as self-steer for a motor on it's own, although they would probably provide a single boat with a steerer sometimes.

 

Outfits included....

 

Union Canal Carriers, at Braunston, (almost certainly the biggest).

Birmingham & Midland, from Brum.

Threefellows, on the Leicester/Soar

Foxton Boat Services, as err.... Foxton!

Collier Brothers at Leighton Buzzard.

 

Not sure if Tam & Di Murrell ever had camping pairs - Tam will say, I'm sure!

 

Add to this list:-

 

Ashby Canal Transport (TADWORTH)

Chas Harden (CHILTERN)

Educational Cruises Ltd., Leicester (BLETCHLEY & ARGUS)

Hockley Port, Birmingham (I do not know their trading name) (PERCH)

Stroudwater Carriers Ltd., Stroud (COMET)

Warwickshire Fly Boat Company (PLOVER & KILDARE)

Willow Wren Hire Cruisers Ltd., Rugby (CRANE / SANDPIPER / WARBLER)

Wyvern Shipping Company, Leighton Buzzard (HEATHER BELL / VICTORIA)

 

Some of these companies also operated 'historic' narrow boats with cabin conversions, sometimes refered to as 'hostel boats'.

 

Other carriers such as Samuel Barlow Coal Company Ltd., Birmingham and Chalrles Ballinger, Gloucester also set up boats as occasional campers.

[pete harrison]

I would love to see the photos of the boats especially detailed ones of Halsall,also of Badsey and Bexhill.Where might these photos be,would they have got transferred to the archive at E Port?What other info have you got on Halsall and do you have any photos of the boat as it was when it left the gravel trade.

Looks like I will have to dig out my flares and the camp beds,the 8 tracks bust but I still got my 12v cassette player so I can listen to some of my old favorite music on my "brixton suitcase",[almost as big as an old valve wireless]

 

The photgraphs I refered to (1970/71) were at the British Waterways Board Gloucester Archive. All of the artifacts at Gloucester are to be moved to Ellesmere Port (if they have not already been moved) so they should be available there soon.

 

You will not find any photographs of BEXHILL up the Wendover Arm as it was sold years before boats were stored en-mass up there !

 

I took a single photograph looking towards the fore end of HALSALL at Sawley on 20 October 1990. It looked exactly the same as when it was on the 'gravel', and still looked the same when Don White ('The Duck') bought it in 1992. The next photograph I took was on 08 August 1994 at Rickmansworth when it looked as it did when you bought it from Don. On that occasion Don was traditionally dressed in very short shorts and a vest - and HALSALL looked really cool in 'British Waterways' blue and yellow. DARLEY and ALPERTON (Roger Hipkiss and Keith Brown) were following close behind freshly painted in 'British Waterways' yellow and blue and were photographed passing through Batchworth by somebody else who published their picture as a jigsaw puzzle !

[Chertsey]

According to CCNA Tarporley - which was still carrying in 1969 - was acquired by Malcolm Braine in 1970 (although it might have been 1971) and was sold to Camden Council in 1972. So in 1973 it would have been in its infancy as a community boat, run by the council with a professional crew, providing free trips for local kids. I now have the photo archive in my possession, but there are few pics prior to the early eighties.

 

Chertsey, from what little I have so far managed to piece together, would in 1973 have been in Richard Barnett's possession for some five years, and appears to have been involved in various campaigning cruises. I've been given a plaque from the 1973 Christmas gathering of (I think; I've left it on Warrior) NBOC, which is assumed by process of elimination to belong to Chertsey.

[Derek R.]

(snip)

DARLEY and ALPERTON (Roger Hipkiss and Keith Brown) were following close behind freshly painted in 'British Waterways' yellow and blue and were photographed passing through Batchworth by somebody else who published their picture as a jigsaw puzzle !

 

Oooh - I've got such a jig-saw puzzle. It's certainly Darley and Alperton looking smart in blue & yellow (yellow as the background, blue border), photographed by a Doug Smith from the bridge as the pair had entered Braunston bottom lock (dock on the left, shop on the right) going up-hill. Bright Sunny day - shorts only on the silver haired lock-wheeler accompanied by a brown dog, and white sleeveless vest on the motor steerer accompanied by another brown dog on the cabin roof. Motor chimney lay on the roof (arch of the bridge fouls them there), two inverted barrows in the hold lined up side by side, one rubber tyre in the middle on the shutts, butty clothed up. Fenders and brass tip-top.

 

Puzzle produced by Lockmaster Crafts, 192 pieces, 10" x 13-3/4". Quite a good puzzle as they go. Seem to recall its purchase from Stoke B. museum shop.

 

Derek

[Paul H]

Pete,

 

I would be interested about what you know of Badsey around it's Wendover period.

 

I suspect I have had memory loss on that one, and it must have been there when we were visiting Tringford, but I can only remember it after it was out of there and being worked on.

 

I am confident that odd boats had a habit of disappearing from there, sometimes then returning, but can't remember which. It can have been no mean feat to get them in or out. All boats pointed "away from" the GU, so would have had to have been dragged out backwards. I think the nearest place any tug could have turned was only just past New Mill, beyond the flour mill, so even they would have needed to reverse in shallow waters a fair bit.

 

Do any pictures exist of any of the boats being removed, does anybody know? The NBT site, (Alton, Nuneaton, Satellite), shows some general pictures of all the boats at the end of the arm, and some of moving boats with outboards, but they do not seem to be captioned as to when or where they were taken.

I hope Blossom won't mind me posting this limk to his website which describes very evocatively retrieving his boat from the Wendover arm. Scroll down to Chapter 10.

 

Blossom's website.

 

Paul H

[madcat]

Im not about for a bit but please keep this thread going with all the stuff you know or remember. Thanks for the info so far. The blue and yellow went west when the engine room was repaired.I have decided on a simple green paint job for the future .

[the grinch]

Fair point, but was that then, or more recently ?

 

My memory was of a channel very much shallower then than now, and also there used to be lines of derelict boats sunk reducing the channel at the Marsworth end of the arm.

 

back in the 80's when i was owner of a 70ft replica large woolwich.

Edited September 10, 2009 by hamsterfan

[Pluto]

It shouldn't be forgotten that not all 'camping boats' of the period were Narrow Boats; Peter Froud ran the JUNE as a camping boat on the Leeds & Liverpool for several years (I acted as steerer from time to time), and ISTR Geoff Wheat doing camping trips with a Short Boat.

 

Tim

Geoff Wheat was part of Northern Counties Carriers which operated the wooden short boat FRANK as a camping boat for a few years in the early 1970s, followed by LUNE and IRWELL later. Mikron also used WEAVER in the mid-1970s.

 

Yes,

 

And I feel quite confident there are other narrow boat outfits I left from my list - probably just single pairs, in some cases.

 

Birmingham and Midland still seem to operate a pair, but I have no idea how facilities on board compare now to then. (I can't see the average teenager considering a week or longer without a bath to be a very good holiday these days - in a politically correct world, I'll not risk assumptions about sex of teenager more likely to miss the washing facilities, though!).

I seem to remember helping Grahame Wrigley and one of the boatmen from Gas Street who worked for Birmingham and Midland with three boats from Wendover at Hatton. They must have been the Stevens and Keay boats.

[pete harrison]

Oooh - I've got such a jig-saw puzzle. It's certainly Darley and Alperton looking smart in blue & yellow (yellow as the background, blue border), photographed by a Doug Smith from the bridge as the pair had entered Braunston bottom lock (dock on the left, shop on the right) going up-hill. Bright Sunny day - shorts only on the silver haired lock-wheeler accompanied by a brown dog, and white sleeveless vest on the motor steerer accompanied by another brown dog on the cabin roof. Motor chimney lay on the roof (arch of the bridge fouls them there), two inverted barrows in the hold lined up side by side, one rubber tyre in the middle on the shutts, butty clothed up. Fenders and brass tip-top.

 

Puzzle produced by Lockmaster Crafts, 192 pieces, 10" x 13-3/4". Quite a good puzzle as they go. Seem to recall its purchase from Stoke B. museum shop.

 

Derek

 

Clearly I do not have this puzzle and I was working from memory. I must try to remember that I am getting too old to rely on my memory. I am sure this was the same trip though.

[pete harrison]

back in the 80's when i was owner of a 70ft replica large woolwich.

 

What was the name of your "70ft replica large woolwich" as it must still be about, and was it converted or a carrying boat ?

[Chertsey]

I hope Blossom won't mind me posting this limk to his website which describes very evocatively retrieving his boat from the Wendover arm. Scroll down to Chapter 10.

 

Blossom's website.

 

Paul H

Damn you! I just spent two hours reading Blossom when I should have been writing my book.

It's fantastic.

(Blossom's website, that is, not my book. Which isn't even written yet)

Edited September 10, 2009 by WarriorWoman