Moorings on Private (farm) land, K&A

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Luctor

Borrowing your 'Pedant's' hat for a short time if I may? regarding the accuracy or otherwise of GPS compared to an on-board speedometer you need to understand Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. If the GPS can give an accurate fix for your location it's estimate of your speed will be dubious, if it can give an accurate speed then it's positonal fix will be dubious. I have seen a GPS used in an aircraft showing a speed of 520mph, at that speed there is no way you could get an accurate positional fix! However your means of speed measuring is done it has to give an average between two (or more) points.Your on-board speedometer however is also not the fount of all knowledge since this will be subject to mechanical inaccuracies which is why the 10% allowance was first introduced. Under European legislation however NO speedometer is permitted to under-estimate your speed (read 60 when you are actually doing 70) so what you will actually find is that ALL speedometers will read less than the actual speed of the car, so the 10% allowance is now unnecessary. (now removing pendant's hat and returing it to it's owner!!!)

 

On a thread about Moorings, why are we discussing speeding???

[wrigglefingers]

On a thread about Moorings, why are we discussing speeding???

 

Trying to get away from it as quickly as possible before someone blows a gasket?

 

Dave and Paul,

 

Your comments about the K & A generally seem to me to be inaccurate and somewhat unfair. Would you both like to come to BoA so that you can come to a more reasoned judgment?

 

You are welcome to stay with me.

 

Jill

[mayalld]

Trying to get away from it as quickly as possible before someone blows a gasket?

 

Dave and Paul,

 

Your comments about the K & A generally seem to me to be inaccurate and somewhat unfair. Would you both like to come to BoA so that you can come to a more reasoned judgment?

 

You are welcome to stay with me.

 

Jill

 

I freely concede that my views of the situation on the K&A are extrapolated from the extent that BW seem to be trying to deal with a "problem" that they are not trying to deal with elsewhere.

 

There is also the matter of the fact that the liveaboard CCers (who probably don't truly meet the definition of CCers) have apparently formed an association. That speaks of a semi-nomadic population who are trundling up and down the K&A.

 

If that impression is wide of the mark, and people other than the said semi-nomadic population are saying so, I hold my hands up!

 

I'd love to come down to BoA, but all my leave is spoken for :-(

[MoominPapa]

Borrowing your 'Pedant's' hat for a short time if I may? regarding the accuracy or otherwise of GPS compared to an on-board speedometer you need to understand Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. If the GPS can give an accurate fix for your location it's estimate of your speed will be dubious, if it can give an accurate speed then it's positonal fix will be dubious.

(Grabs pedant's hat and jams it firmly on head.)

 

Whilst it may well be true that a GPS receiver won't give both accurate position and accurate speed, that has nothing to do with Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, not unless you're traveling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, anyway.

 

MP.

[Chris Pink]

There is also the matter of the fact that the liveaboard CCers (who probably don't truly meet the definition of CCers) have apparently formed an association. That speaks of a semi-nomadic population who are trundling up and down the K&A.

 

If that impression is wide of the mark, and people other than the said semi-nomadic population are saying so, I hold my hands up!

 

You can put them down again now Dave. I've never known you admit being wrong before.

 

Where did you hear about an association of 'liveaboard CCers'? I have not heard of anything like that unless it's called British Waterways.

[mayalld]

You can put them down again now Dave. I've never known you admit being wrong before.

 

Where did you hear about an association of 'liveaboard CCers'? I have not heard of anything like that unless it's called British Waterways.

 

I'm not wrong very often :-)

 

I heard about such an association on this very forum.

 

Have I been led astray?

[alan_fincher]

Dave and Paul,

 

Your comments about the K & A generally seem to me to be inaccurate and somewhat unfair. Would you both like to come to BoA so that you can come to a more reasoned judgment?

 

You are welcome to stay with me.

 

Jill

I'll freely admit I don't know the K&A.

 

I was rather shocked when a close friend who has a share in a boat, (and a great long standing love of canals), told me she has never been more grateful of the boat being moved on to a new base than when it recently left the K&A. My friend is someone with a relaxed attitude to life that I could never aspire to, but it seems that even for her boating that canal has now become a chore, (some of that may be about condition in which it is maintained, rather than just "congestion", though.....).

 

To change tack slightly, one thing struck us very firmly on our recent trip up from "the South" on to more "Northerly" waterways like those on the Four Counties Ring.

 

The situation that so often gets described on here about large numbers of live-aboard and "CC-ing" boaters lining large amounts of the canal-side simple does not exist anything like the same way once you are away from the South East, and on waterways like the T&M and Shroppie is (by comparison) almost non-existent, (yes, I really do mean "almost non-existent"!)

 

This means, in terms of forum debate, anybody who's normal to exposure to canals doesn't take them to the places where these boats exist in such large numbers, (for example someone who never comes off the Four Counties), will actually have no idea of what is being talked about. The situation that has grown up around inner and outer London, and the Home Counties, where increasingly what used to be empty canal banks are now filled with boats will inevitably sound exaggerated to people who only see lived-on boats in very much smaller numbers.

 

I'm not making comment on whether it is a "bad thing" or not, only observing that what you see in one part of the country might give you no insight in what goes on elsewhere.

 

As I say, I only know the K&A by reputation, so would only seek to make my own judgement when I have finally got to cruise it.

 

It would be interesting if someone Like Lady Muck, who has cruised over many canals from South to North agrees with my observations or not. Are there just not so many more boats on some of the Southern waterways, that once you go elsewhere the situation is just totally different ?

[Lady Muck]

Alan:

 

This is wot I hav found.

 

Lee (my home river)

Very congested in Hackney, Very busy in Tottenham, but it's deep and theres still room to fill up as far as Picketts. Annoying if you want to moor in Hackney, in three years I've never found a space and I know the rowing clubs there complain to BW all the time. New 'communities' have sprung up -for instance there used to be no one moored at Filter beds, now there are over a dozen boats. No go areas aren't no go anymore (eg Tottenham), they have dozens of boats there. There are boats that don't move for over six months, but you can't judge because you don't know that individuals circumstances and what arrangement they might have with BW. It got this busy in just two years, thats the mad thing. There used to be no boats moored at all in the two pounds near me, now its more like 30? 40?

It's busy all the way to Hertford, but it's a wide river so you don't have to go eveywhere at tick-over, so it doesn't really affect visitors. Having seen cruising club complaints, they're not happy and Mr Stott said something along the lines of 'I want them gone. Now.' But, hey, thats Mr Stott.

Stort - pretty busy, you need a gangplank and longer boats might struggle to moor in some parts because it's windy. But again, never bothered me.

Paddington Arm. Pretty full, but there is a sh*t hot patrol officer so it's musical boats - boaters do move. I must be lucky, because I've always, always got a space at Camden. If you want to moor in busy spots then plan to arrive at lunchtime. Never seen any space at Islington.

Lower GU, It's busy. But not to the point it's annoying. Packed around Brauston turn but not with liveaboards.

Brum. Mostly quiet.

Calder and Hebble: pretty quiet.

Shroppie. Busy with holiday boaters, not many liveaboard, but must be genuine cc as we are passing them again on the Coventry!

Bridgewater. Not really any evidence of overstaying. Not overcrowded.

T & M. Very busy, mostly with retired ccers in smart semi trads, all visitor moorings full, have had a little trouble mooring most nights. This must be because of the breach on the Shroppie.

Coventry. I'm on this now, again it's very busy, same type of boaters as T & M visitor moorings full.

Leeds and Liverpool. Only a sprinkling of liveaboards. Not very busy.

Aire and Calder - a few liveaboards. This waterway is so wide and deep you could cc in a cruise liner and you wouldn't be anyones way. Some of the boats people were living on were absolutely vast! Annoying that all visitor moorings on this canal are 48 hours and there are barely any services. Which is rubbish if you want to visit your mother for two weeks.

Selby canal. Liveaboards only in basin at end.

Rochdale. Deathly quiet, especially after Todmorden, as the hire boats don't seem to go past there. But lots of moored boats in Hebden bridge, both legal and squatted moorings, they could hardly be claimed to be in anyones way, though, theres no traffic! On the Western side, I could have counted moored boats on my hands, so few!

Manchester, Ashton Canal. Again, very quiet. A few 'adventure boaters' (I.e. more canal enthusiast types than shiny boaters), a couple of hire boats. Can't even recall any moored boats on the Ashton.

Macclesfield. Very busy same as T & M

But busiest of all, was the Peak Forest - I didn't expect that! It's shallow all along and narrow in places so you can't moor just anywhere. CCer liveaboard boaters all along, spoke to some of them. Couldn't find mooring space at either Whaley Bridge or Bugsworth, both totally full, but with holiday boaters, not liveaboards. We did spend bank holiday weekend there though and there are alot of marinas in that area!

 

To conclude, I think the canals have just got very busy. You can't blame one type of user more than another in most areas. But we all have to share nicely.

 

Well, you did ask, Alan.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Lady Muck

[sueb]

Sharing is one thing but why should some pay for moorings and others decide that they will moor in one spot without paying. People are making the decision to buy a boat even though they they know they can't get a mooring where they want. If you substitute the word boat for caravan it is clear that people wouldn't make the same decision.

Sue

[carlt]

If you substitute the word boat for caravan it is clear that people wouldn't make the same decision.

There's quite a large number of caravan dwelling travellers that disprove this theory.

 

Many more than liveaboards.

Edited September 12, 2009 by carlt