Remote control of engine and steering

[Southdowner]

Any thoughts or feedback on remote boat control please?

 

On Saturday last saw what may have been a current or repeated showing of "Waterworld", amongst which was a brief feature on the patented invention by a man in the Midlands of a handheld remote controller he had developed to help him single-hand his cruiser stern narrowboat through locks, as his OH was no longer able to assist anymore due to incapacity.

 

The pocket-sized handset was able to operate the morse engine/direction controller and the tiller from the towpath/lockside whilst locking. I did not get the name of the inventor or the product, but he intended to build and sell it himself at approx £1,500. Could it be called Locksafe, Locksure?

 

Full marks to him for ingenuity and application in modifying his boat to suit his revised family circumstances.

 

Have seen an industrial application of something similar on French railways where locomotives on freight trains serving multiple sidings can be driven remotely to enable the driver to manage both the points and the loco.

 

Southdowner

[nbtafelberg]

Yes, I saw this as well.

 

I think its fine on Canals if you are the only boat in the Lock but some of the bigger Thames locks really require you to be skippering the boat.

 

I wonder if your insurance could be affected if the boat lost control from the control unit. I.e. it then damaged something and they claimed against you as you were not in control of your vessel.

 

However clever idea. Ofcourse it wouldn't work on our boat as we have the old push rod gearing system and accellerator.

[John Orentas]

Southdowner.

 

It has been done before, I think we had a thread going on here about a year ago.

 

I remember suggesting at the time that all that would be necessary is for control of forward and reverse of the gearbox to enable you to get in and out of locks I think doing any more would invite some sort of legislation to stop you doing it on safety grounds. For anyone even doing the minimum they would be advised to keep a low profile there are lot's of people out there who want to stop everyone doing anything.

 

Simple radio control as above would cost very little, a basic dual channel radio kit and a couple of 12 volt linear actuators. £500 maximum.

[Bullfrog]

"I remember suggesting at the time that all that would be necessary is for control of forward and reverse of the gearbox to enable you to get in and out of locks "

 

I recently shared a lock with a working boat who was running single handed. He was controlling his forward/reverse motion via lengths of blue string passed through the hatch into the engine 'ole!

 

Low tech solution that I guess cost about 20p.

[Sam]

Theres a fair old bit that can go wrong though, what if there was another boat which gets its self across the pound (which a hire boat has done to us before) so that you need to do some expert steering to get yourself around it and give them a hand if need be..

[meows]

A similar system is offered by 'Vetus' which includes a servo control to operate gears. It can be extended to 2 engines and gearboxes, if needed.

Looking at it I think it could probably cost a lot less than the figures mentioned.

 

While writing does anyone know when next programme of Waterways is on ?

[Southdowner]

A similar system is offered by 'Vetus' which includes a servo control to operate gears. It can be extended to 2 engines and gearboxes, if needed.

Looking at it I think it could probably  cost a lot less than the figures mentioned.

 

While writing does anyone know when next programme of Waterways is on ?

29163[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks Meows,

will look out for information on the Vetus system, and belated thanks to Jon Orentas for other reply received. Plan to incorporate some kind of remote to my eventual boat project to assist with locking when single handed.

 

Neil (Southdowner)

[Gary Peacock]

I have done remote steering on two broad beams, one via a remote joystick for control from the deck and the other via a hand held tiller control on a long cable to allow disabled users to steer the boat.

The results worked OK but it took a lot of getting used to. It would have cost peanuts to do the full system via R/C but not one wanted it.

 

To incorporate control of propulsion wouldn't have been too hard either but no one to ever wanted that either.

Edited August 31, 2005 by Gary Peacock

[Liam]

Some guy designed and actually built a system to enable him to this..

 

He's a kind of 'nutty professor'

 

He did actually get it working, but has had a load of problems with it all, and was stopped when he was desiging some mooring pins which are on hydraulic arms which come out and force the pins into the ground.

 

This was stopped on the grounds of H&S. It wouldn't be funny if it went through MY foot if I was walking past.

[Wobbly Dick]

Hi, In need of some form of remote as I am disabled and will be alone. Is there anymore information about where, or how to get these systems?

Does anyone have the mechanical and electrical knowhow and would be willing to share in the development of such a system?

[Stephen Fulcher]

As John mentioned above, it would be relatively simple to modify a boat for remotely operated propulsion.

 

Steering may be a little more difficult though. I would imagine that a motor would be required to move the rudder.

 

I personally would question whether or not this is safe however, there is surely the chance of the boat getting stuck in gear with the tiller over and the remote controls fail. If this were to happen for one thing you would be stuck on the towpath with your boat sailing sown the canal on its own with no way of getting to it until it crashes into either the bank, another boat or a bridge.

[len]

Any thoughts or feedback on remote boat control please?

 

On Saturday last saw what may have been a current or repeated showing of "Waterworld", amongst which was a brief feature on the patented invention by a man in the Midlands of a handheld remote controller he had developed to help him single-hand his cruiser stern narrowboat through locks, as his OH was no longer able to assist anymore due to incapacity.

 

The pocket-sized handset was able to operate the morse engine/direction controller and the tiller from the towpath/lockside whilst locking. I did not get the name of the inventor or the product, but he intended to build and sell it himself at approx £1,500. Could it be called Locksafe, Locksure?

 

Full marks to him for ingenuity and application in modifying his boat to suit his revised family circumstances.

 

Have seen an industrial application of something similar on French railways where locomotives on freight trains serving multiple sidings can be driven remotely to enable the driver to manage both the points and the loco.

 

Southdowner

 

Hi there,

 

this guy may be worth contacting:

 

http://www.johnpowell.net/pages/fancy_free2005.htm

 

Len

[DHutch]

Also, as gary said above, he has fitted this equipent to his boats as well. (lifts, hydrolic stearing, etc)

 

 

Daniel

[Stephen Fulcher]

For just going in and out of locks, perhaps fitting just engine controls would be beneficial.

 

The boat can only really go one way anyway due to the width of the locks, so steering shouldnt be required too much anyway - would save pulling the boat in with a rope.

[Moley]

There's a guy who's taking the mooring next to ours who cruises solo, and has just had one of these systems fitted.

 

He should have been down last Saturday, and had been putting in 10 or 11 hour days to get here. However, he got to Stourton (half a day away) and it broke, so has had to leave it there for the week while some bracket is remade and fitted, and will be back this coming weekend, so I'll get some first-hand info when I see him.

 

Ade.

[Gary Peacock]

Before everyone goes running off to the local model shop in search of R/C gear, I would caution that BW & HSE apparently take a dim view to 60" R/C boats! Also the chances of your Insurance being valid if the boat was to be involved in a accident where any cause can be attributed to the R/C setup would be very slim indeed!

 

Seems a good idea at first but I suspect it will shortly be outlawed on safety grounds. Safety of the public pulls a lot of weight these days and after all the waterways are a very public environment.

 

[Wobbly Dick]

Hi Ade, Did you manage to get any info about the remote control system?

 

There's a guy who's taking the mooring next to ours who cruises solo, and has just had one of these systems fitted.

 

He should have been down last Saturday, and had been putting in 10 or 11 hour days to get here. However, he got to Stourton (half a day away) and it broke, so has had to leave it there for the week while some bracket is remade and fitted, and will be back this coming weekend, so I'll get some first-hand info when I see him.

 

Ade.

 

 

Hi Gary,

 

So you have done it and built a remote control system, so go on tell us how to do it?

 

Have you got diagrams, pictures and clear insturction please to help us poor folk along.

 

How much would it cost for information?

 

I have done remote steering on two broad beams, one via a remote joystick for control from the deck and the other via a hand held tiller control on a long cable to allow disabled users to steer the boat.

The results worked OK but it took a lot of getting used to. It would have cost peanuts to do the full system via R/C but not one wanted it.

 

To incorporate control of propulsion wouldn't have been too hard either but no one to ever wanted that either.

[Maffi]

Before everyone goes running off to the local model shop in search of R/C gear, I would caution that BW & HSE apparently take a dim view to 60" R/C boats! Also the chances of your Insurance being valid if the boat was to be involved in a accident where any cause can be attributed to the R/C setup would be very slim indeed!

 

Seems a good idea at first but I suspect it will shortly be outlawed on safety grounds. Safety of the public pulls a lot of weight these days and after all the waterways are a very public environment.

 

 

Given that there are hundreds of thousands of tons of aluminium tubes flying around our skys at any given time, with fly by wire systems, I would doubt that BW the HSE or Insurance companies could put up a good enough argument against it.

 

There is no reason why a system of bowden cables couldn't be used to allow the boat to be steered and engine controlled from the well deck. Difficult though that may seem, it is doable.

 

A quality R/C equipment fit should present no problem.

 

The bowden cable system is just one of the many ideas I didn't land you with Gary. Unless you fancy a challenge.

[DHutch]

The bowden cable system is just one of the many ideas I didn't land you with Gary. Unless you fancy a challenge.

Or wheel stearing with just bits of blue high tensile plastic sheathed stainless steel string, the odd pulley, and the chain and rear sprocket off an old pedel and pop....

[Maffi]

The bowden cable system is just one of the many ideas I didn't land you with Gary. Unless you fancy a challenge.

 

I'll take that as a no then, shall I?

Edited May 3, 2006 by Maffi

[John Orentas]

Bicycle chain and sprockets, bowden cable, home made Heath Robinson steering contraptions, they were doing all this fifty years ago and gave up thirty years ago. If you must go down the route of wheel steering which is a backward step in itself. You can buy a hydraulic kit to do the job.

 

A bit like the steering mechanisms on cars and the landing gear on aircraft this is type of application requires 'total engineering', you won't get that by messing about bits of wire and bits of old bikes.

Edited May 4, 2006 by John Orentas

[David Schweizer]

Bicycle chain and sprockets, bowden cable, home made Heath Robinson steering contraptions, they were doing all this fifty years ago and gave up thirty years ago. If you must go down the route of wheel steering which is a backward step in itself. You can buy a hydraulic kit to do the job.

 

Sounds a bit like the trolley I made when I was about ten, two sets of pram wheels, a plank and a fifth pram wheel mounted on a rod at 45degrees with some thin rope attached to the front swivel axle for steering. We used to have races in them down the middle of our road, Crashes and grazed knees were a common experience. Life for kids was simpler in those days.

Edited May 4, 2006 by David Schweizer

[DHutch]

Bicycle chain and sprockets, bowden cable, home made Heath Robinson steering contraptions, they were doing all this fifty years ago and gave up thirty years ago. If you must go down the route of wheel steering which is a backward step in itself. You can buy a hydraulic kit to do the job.

 

A bit like the steering mechanisms on cars and the landing gear on aircraft this is type of application requires 'total engineering', you won't get that by messing about bits of wire and bits of old bikes.

Well i guess its all upto you, however i quite like our wheel! (with its bike chain, sproket, steelcable and pulleys)

- Yes it makes our faily non-resposive lump of a boat ever harder to helm, and yes its has failed 2/3 times over the last 15years. But adds to the fun and the chanllenge

 

 

Daniel

[Wobbly Dick]

Well i guess its all upto you, however i quite like our wheel! (with its bike chain, sproket, steelcable and pulleys)

- Yes it makes our faily non-resposive lump of a boat ever harder to helm, and yes its has failed 2/3 times over the last 15years. But adds to the fun and the chanllenge

Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

 

Have you got any pictures you would like to share showing your Heath Robinson device, please?

[dor]

As no doubt sooner or later someone will experiment with radio control, please make sure you use a system specifically designed for (model) boats.

 

Boats, cars & aircraft are allocated different frequency ranges. Fatal accidents have occured where someone has innocently fitted an aircraft Tx/Rx into a boat and then interfered with a nearby modle aircraft which lost control.

 

Model aircraft transmitters can have a range of several kilometers.