Seaward of the Thames Barrier...

[blackrose]

I was thinking of doing a trip with another couple of boats downstream on the ebb tide from Brentford through London and past the Thames barrier until the tide turns and then turning around and coming back up on the flood tide - locking in again at Brentford..

 

Firstly if we time it right is this possible without having to punch the tide in either direction?

 

Also, although my insurance policy covers me for tidal passages to interconnecting inland waters, it does not cover me seaward of the Thames barrier, (making a passage to the Medway impossible). My insurer (Craftinsure) told me I would need to pay for additional cover and is going to come back to me with the premium.

 

Does your insurance policy cover you seaward of the Thames Barrier?

[magpie patrick]

My insurer is Towergate Mardon, and the short answer is NO:

 

They cover The tidal trent down to Keadby, the Ouse above Goole (but not via Trent Falls), The Ribble Link, and The Bristol Channel, the last one being subject to an extra premium and I must take a pilot, having scared everyone silly on the Ribble Link I won't be testing this last one.

 

It also covers the Thames to the Barrier, but I think only in convoy.

[alan_fincher]

No,

 

Exactly as yours - "Inland Waters and Tidal Links of the UK only".

 

Perhaps you could claim you were "linking" between the Grand Union and the Humber!

[GUMPY]

Does your insurance policy cover you seaward of the Thames Barrier?

 

Yes!

Mine covers me for Tidal access to navigable rivers so am covered down to the Medway and across to the Colne etc.

I do ask them to send me a letter confirming that I am covered for the period when I go and places that I am going to which they do for no charge.

I guess it helps that GJW also cover seagoing stuff.

It was the same when I had the narrowboat as well.

Having said that I am not allowed to single hand after dark......

 

Julian

Edited September 9, 2008 by idleness

[Dominic M]

No,

 

Exactly as yours - "Inland Waters and Tidal Links of the UK only".

 

Perhaps you could claim you were "linking" between the Grand Union and the Humber!

Can't you claim a tidal link to the Medway or the Chelmer and Blackwater? Or how about round to the River Deben? Seems a bit woolly to me.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Dominic M

[carlt]

In theory the Thames estuary stretches to the River Or/Alde. So you could argue that you are never actually at sea, merely following a tidal link.

 

Unless, like me moving from the Alde to the Roach, you choose to take a straight(ish) line out to sea and turn and take the second side of the triangle back.

[blackrose]

No,

 

Exactly as yours - "Inland Waters and Tidal Links of the UK only".

 

Perhaps you could claim you were "linking" between the Grand Union and the Humber!

 

But it's reasonable to assume one might want to use the tidal link from London to the Medway and if it's deemed unsuitable for flat bottomed unchined craft such as narrow boats and NB style widebeams by the insurance companies and they have an exclusion clause, I wonder how all those narrow boats got onto the Medway in the first place?

 

By the way, if I left Brentford at high tide and kept going, does anyone know roughly how far I would get before the next slack water, and would I make it back to Brentford without punching the tide, or would I have to lock in at Limehouse?

Edited September 9, 2008 by blackrose

[Lesd]

But it's reasonable to assume one might want to use the tidal link from London to the Medway and if it's deemed unsuitable for flat bottomed unchined craft such as narrow boats and NB style widebeams by the insurance companies and they have an exclusion clause, I wonder how all those narrow boats got onto the Medway in the first place?

 

By the way, if I left Brentford at high tide and kept going, does anyone know roughly how far I would get before the next slack water, and would I make it back to Brentford without punching the tide, or would I have to lock in at Limehouse?

 

Ive no idea Mike, but sounds like an exciting trip !!!!

[magpie patrick]

But it's reasonable to assume one might want to use the tidal link from London to the Medway and if it's deemed unsuitable for flat bottomed unchined craft such as narrow boats and NB style widebeams by the insurance companies and they have an exclusion clause, I wonder how all those narrow boats got onto the Medway in the first place?

 

By the way, if I left Brentford at high tide and kept going, does anyone know roughly how far I would get before the next slack water, and would I make it back to Brentford without punching the tide, or would I have to lock in at Limehouse?

 

Hi Blackrose:

 

can't help with your query on how far you'd get as I don't know the estuary well enough.

 

I think the point is though not that you can't get insurance, but that many standard policies don't provide it. If I was to try to get to the Medway I'd go in search of an insurance company that would cover me to do it.

[blackrose]

Ive no idea Mike, but sounds like an exciting trip !!!!

 

Well, you're welcome to join us Les.

 

Hi Blackrose:

 

can't help with your query on how far you'd get as I don't know the estuary well enough.

 

I think the point is though not that you can't get insurance, but that many standard policies don't provide it. If I was to try to get to the Medway I'd go in search of an insurance company that would cover me to do it.

 

Yes, my insurance company haven't called me back with the price of the extended cover yet.

 

Lots of narrow boats go through the Thames barrier en route to places like the Royal Docks, but I wonder how many of them have checked if they're covered to do it?

[WJM]

I think the tide goes out for five hours and comes in for seven, something very roughly along those lines. I can get to Limehouse in about 2 1/2 hours, Thames Barrier in 3 - so you have another 2 hours after that - that is going to see you down near Tilbury - interesting idea - stop overnight at Tilbury Docks? Looking at a map that still looks to me like a tidal river and not the sea and since you have not reached the Medway yet you should be insured, I think!

 

Whatever you do, it would be a very hard trip single handed, there is so little opportunity to leave the tiller!

[Dominic M]

By the way, if I left Brentford at high tide and kept going, does anyone know roughly how far I would get before the next slack water, and would I make it back to Brentford without punching the tide, or would I have to lock in at Limehouse?

I went from Teddington down through the barrier to Silvertown (in the good old days when you didn't have to have VHF - 1992) where we tied up to a tug and had lunch whilst we waited for the remaining tide to run out and turn, then we came back and went up through Bow Creek rather than Limehouse. I got the impression that the lock there had not been used for some time - and we had to ring BW who sent someone out to let us through there. I don't know whether we could have made it back to Brentford - but at this time of year I doubt you'll be able to do it all in daylight. And it depends on what sort of tide you're going on. A full blown spring might do it, but watch out for Hammersmith Bridge!

[magpie patrick]

I think the tide goes out for five hours and comes in for seven, something very roughly along those lines. I can get to Limehouse in about 2 1/2 hours, Thames Barrier in 3 - so you have another 2 hours after that - that is going to see you down near Tilbury - interesting idea - stop overnight at Tilbury Docks? Looking at a map that still looks to me like a tidal river and not the sea and since you have not reached the Medway yet you should be insured, I think!

 

Whatever you do, it would be a very hard trip single handed, there is so little opportunity to leave the tiller!

 

It is a river there but my insurance specifically states "The Tidal Thames as far downstream as the Thames Barrier" which would seem to suggest no further!

 

St Pancras Boat club probably know: they do it a lot. Ripple is based so far from London that the lack of insurance isn't a worry for me, but I am looking to check out insurance to reach the Lydney Canal.

 

The idea of coming back in at Bow had crossed my mind, but you need to book bow locks in advance.

[Tim Lewis]

My insurer is Towergate Mardon, and the short answer is NO:

 

They cover The tidal trent down to Keadby, the Ouse above Goole (but not via Trent Falls), The Ribble Link, and The Bristol Channel, the last one being subject to an extra premium and I must take a pilot, having scared everyone silly on the Ribble Link I won't be testing this last one.

 

It also covers the Thames to the Barrier, but I think only in convoy.

 

We also insure with Towergate Mardon, we gat charged £30 extra when we go to the Boat show in the Royal docks with conditions such as we cannot go if the wind is more than force 3 (not that you would want to!)

 

Tim

[GUMPY]

By the way, if I left Brentford at high tide and kept going, does anyone know roughly how far I would get before the next slack water, and would I make it back to Brentford without punching the tide, or would I have to lock in at Limehouse?

I would think that you should be able to make the QE2 bridge with ease if you leave Brentford at or just before High Tide.

Brentford to Limehouse 2.5 to 3hrs Limehouse to QE2 about the same.

Working on distance, 35miles and 6mph, which is easily doable with the tide, it will take just under 6hrs each way.

Having said that 12hrs is a long time to be stood at the tiller..........

 

Julian

[blackrose]

I would think that you should be able to make the QE2 bridge with ease if you leave Brentford at or just before High Tide.

Brentford to Limehouse 2.5 to 3hrs Limehouse to QE2 about the same.

Working on distance, 35miles and 6mph, which is easily doable with the tide, it will take just under 6hrs each way.

Having said that 12hrs is a long time to be stood at the tiller..........

 

Julian

 

Not when you're a hero!

 

I once stayed out on deck on a friend's boat for 18 hours on a crossing to France, much of that at the tiller, because everytime I went below deck I felt sick.

 

Seriously though, I would only do the trip with at least one other crew member and perhaps locking in & staying overnight at Limehouse on the return leg is the thing to do. I wonder what an upstream entrance to Limehouse is like going with the tide? Would you pass the entrance midstream and then turn back towards it?

Edited September 9, 2008 by blackrose

[NB Willawaw]

If you are going to ride the ebb tide until slack and then turn upstream and ride the flood, you could time your arrival at Limehouse for just before HW by throttling back.

The stream will have lessened by then. I would approach upstream on the northern side, leaving enough room to pass the lock entrance, turn to starboard to punch what tide is left and

then enter (the tidal flow is usually lessened closer to the bank).

 

P.S Beware the Woolwich Ferry..

 

I wonder what an upstream entrance to Limehouse is like going with the tide? Would you pass the entrance midstream and then turn back towards it?

Edited September 9, 2008 by NB Willawaw

[NB Willawaw]

Incidently, I entered Tilbury about a month ago (not with Willawaw) and there is a Dutch barge in there.

I don't know what they would charge for a couple of nights, but it would be worth finding out.