Those "Keep Off The Cills" Signs

[alan_fincher]

After some fairly widespread cruising, we have noted there are multiple styles to the signs intended to avoid "cilling".

 

Many locks are being equipped with just the pictorial sign, whereas others have the "Keep boat forward of cill marker" wording alongside. (There seems to be little consistency about placement of either type).

 

Spotted today in the Farmers Bridge and Aston flights were example where a cheap laminated paper version of the "Keep boat forward of cill marker" worded version had been attached with drawing pins over the top of a more permanent version of the sign showing just the pictorial. (Some of these more temporary signs were already hanging off, which is why we realised the other sign was below).

 

Has somebody now decided that the pictorial version only is not enough ? Can we look forward to the further expense, as they are all replaced by ones with words on.

 

Many of the BCN locks involved have less that 1 foot of cill showing.

 

Incidentally, some of the Aston locks already have one proper (round) strapping post alongside. These have been spared one of the three wooden blocks, and the locks now have one round posts, and two square wooden trip hazards bollards down the non-towpath side.

[Moley]

Many locks are being equipped with just the pictorial sign, whereas others have the "Keep boat forward of cill marker" wording alongside. (There seems to be little consistency about placement of either type).

 

Has somebody now decided that the pictorial version only is not enough ? Can we look forward to the further expense, as they are all replaced by ones with words on.

 

What? Only in English?

 

What about the foreign visitors to our canals? Ok, the Yanks, Aussies and Kiwis are covered but we've met many nationalities while out cruising, surely these signs ought to be worded in French, German (nah, let the buggers sink), Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian etc.

 

At least on the S&W we seem to have semi-decent black oval plywood bridge plaques, fixed with screws and rawlplugs, even if the white lettering is fairly crudely signwritten.

[purplehaze]

What? Only in English?

 

What about the foreign visitors to our canals? Ok, the Yanks, Aussies and Kiwis are covered but we've met many nationalities while out cruising, surely these signs ought to be worded in French, German (nah, let the buggers sink), Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian etc.

 

At least on the S&W we seem to have semi-decent black oval plywood bridge plaques, fixed with screws and rawlplugs, even if the white lettering is fairly crudely signwritten.

 

This is a newish thing, yes? We were out in May and saw no new notices on the four counties. It must be an health & safety issue surely with BW trying to cover all bases (mind you if the notices are only in english they have failed there!!).

 

The cill 'issue' is an important one and new/inexperienced boaters really haven't got a clue about how dangerous getting stuck on one may be more needs to be done as we have seen a couple of potentially life threatening situations ourselves. But how to make sure that this happens is a difficult one but it must be said that poor signs are not the way to do it

Julie

[mayalld]

After some fairly widespread cruising, we have noted there are multiple styles to the signs intended to avoid "cilling".

 

Many locks are being equipped with just the pictorial sign, whereas others have the "Keep boat forward of cill marker" wording alongside. (There seems to be little consistency about placement of either type).

 

As far as I can tell, the full version is being used at the top and bottom locks of flights, whilst the smaller version is being used in the middle of flights.

[NBMike]

What? Only in English?

 

What about the foreign visitors to our canals? Ok, the Yanks, Aussies and Kiwis are covered but we've met many nationalities while out cruising, surely these signs ought to be worded in French, German (nah, let the buggers sink), Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian etc.

 

At least on the S&W we seem to have semi-decent black oval plywood bridge plaques, fixed with screws and rawlplugs, even if the white lettering is fairly crudely signwritten.

And let us not forget our own ethnic minorities. Where are the signs in Urdu, Hindi, Gujariti, Sanskrit and all those other neglected folk who may know nothing about the dangers of 'Cills'.

[cotswoldsman]

And let us not forget our own ethnic minorities. Where are the signs in Urdu, Hindi, Gujariti, Sanskrit and all those other neglected folk who may know nothing about the dangers of 'Cills'.

 

What about us Afrikaners.

I had to pop my boat on the cill on Monday as I had a very bad prop foul and could not clear it via the weed hatch so cills do have another very usefull function.

[saltysplash]

What about us Afrikaners.

I had to pop my boat on the cill on Monday as I had a very bad prop foul and could not clear it via the weed hatch so cills do have another very usefull function.

 

 

 

cilly boy

[alan_fincher]

As far as I can tell, the full version is being used at the top and bottom locks of flights, whilst the smaller version is being used in the middle of flights.

Certainly not what we are seeing.

 

Seems to be fairly random, but for example, our local "home" flight, has full worded versions of the signs throughout.

 

Not consistent where they are positioned though.

 

What would be the logic in putting fuller info at the bottom of the flight, than on intermediate locks ? If you have made it that far, the additional reminder as you at the bottom one would seem strange ?

 

Alan

[magnetman]

Its a bit like the baffles fitted one SOME centre paddles (also known as top gate paddles) on the Grand Union. If you fit baffles on all of them then they are safer but if you fit baffles on some they are more dangerous because someone will assume there will be a baffle because there was on the last lock and they will whack the paddle right up. Similarly, if signage is inconsistent it may make people assume that a lock which doesn't have a warning sign doesn't have a cill/sill and is safe "its okay if it wass dangerous someone would have put a notice up". Its counterproductive in my opinion.

[mayalld]

Certainly not what we are seeing.

 

Seems to be fairly random, but for example, our local "home" flight, has full worded versions of the signs throughout.

 

Not consistent where they are positioned though.

 

What would be the logic in putting fuller info at the bottom of the flight, than on intermediate locks ? If you have made it that far, the additional reminder as you at the bottom one would seem strange ?

 

Alan

 

I think that the logic is that when you come to your first lock after setting off, the sign is accompanied by words to explain what it means, but that the additional explanation is not needed in cases where you will already have passed a full sign, and that the pictogram alone will be enough.

[blackrose]

And let us not forget our own ethnic minorities. Where are the signs in Urdu, Hindi, Gujariti, Sanskrit and all those other neglected folk who may know nothing about the dangers of 'Cills'.

 

Yes, BW are obviously in need of some "Diversity Awareness Training"

[Malarky]

Pictogram's are fun, and can provide intregue, especially if they were designed by BW!

[sueb]

When going up the instructions are facing you and can be dodgy if the lock leaks badly.

Sue

[Smelly]

After fastening the "keep forward of the cill marker" signs to Farmer's Bridge, on my way in to work this morning I noticed a crew in the lock scrubbing the cill markers off the top lock!

 

I intend to report in later, but if there's no markers there'll be some very sarcastic comments going in!

[Chris Lingwood]

After fastening the "keep forward of the cill marker" signs to Farmer's Bridge, on my way in to work this morning I noticed a crew in the lock scrubbing the cill markers off the top lock!

 

I intend to report in later, but if there's no markers there'll be some very sarcastic comments going in!

 

but...but...those cill markers.....mark the cill..........

[magpie patrick]

Many of the BCN locks involved have less that 1 foot of cill showing.

 

Ripple has the front deck drains about two inches above the waterline: possibly a failing, but a fact and she was a hire boat.

 

Any cill that will lift her stern by around 8 inches (not even enough for thr skeg to clear the water) could potentially sink her. So cill 16 inches under water is is a hazard.

 

When we go at speed on rivers (or meet breaking waves on the Ribble Link!) we get some ingress but because the bow drains are generally out of the water this isn't a problem, but to hold them under water would spell disaster.

[alan_fincher]

Our latest nomination goes to the lock nearest Fradley Junction on the T&M.

 

The paper laminated warning sign is fitted t the hand rails with zip ties, and pointing at the sky.

 

There are cill markers on each side of the lock, where one is at least 4 feet further from the gate than the other, (and no, it doesn't have a diagonal cill).

 

Alan

 

(Current cruise location Alrewas, Trent & Mersey)

[Norman Bond]

Hi Alan,

 

Was interested to read your comments on the Aston and Farmer's Bridge locks as a friend of mine is responsible for looking after them.

 

He went out yesterday and checked them all again and reports that there are two laminated paper notices on the Farmer's Bridge flight. That is because they are listed structures and BW have not yet received planning permission to attach permanent notices to them. As soon as this arrives they will be replaced.

 

The funny part about the planning permission is that they are not allowed to use the "one-way" thief-proof screws. The only type approved are Posidrive. Very traditional! So don't expect the new notices to be there for long. The local kids will have removed them in no time at all.

 

As an aside - I wonder how much all this is costing. Would the cost of putting up these notices and putting in the extra bollards have paid for a well known canal restoration that BW backed out of pleading poverty?