Tideway

[Black Ibis]

We're thinking of taking our trip a bit further along the Thames. Originally we were going to leave it at Brentford and go onto the Grand Union, but we're thinking of pushing the boat out *cringes at use of phrase* and going all the way to Limehouse. This will be our first trip, but we'll have been cruising for 2/3 weeks by the time we get to Brentford so we'll have got the hang of it by then I hope!

 

Any advice? Is it a silly idea? Obv. lifejackets are essential etc. And does anyone want to join us (mid to late August) for a convoy? St Pancras CC haven't got anything on, alas.

[alan_fincher]

I'm no expert, but do you have the neccessary VHF radio qualifications and equipment ?

[NB Alnwick]

We're thinking of taking our trip a bit further along the Thames. Originally we were going to leave it at Brentford and go onto the Grand Union, but we're thinking of pushing the boat out *cringes at use of phrase* and going all the way to Limehouse. This will be our first trip, but we'll have been cruising for 2/3 weeks by the time we get to Brentford so we'll have got the hang of it by then I hope!

 

Any advice? Is it a silly idea? Obv. lifejackets are essential etc. And does anyone want to join us (mid to late August) for a convoy? St Pancras CC haven't got anything on, alas.

 

Go for it - but you will need to heed the new radio requirements.

 

There is an account of the exciting incident that occurred on our passage of the tidal Thames in 2006 here: http://www.grahamoliver.com/archive/20061005.htm

[Black Ibis]

I'm no expert, but do you have the neccessary VHF radio qualifications and equipment ?

 

 

We will do, if we decide to go ahead with it.

 

Go for it - but you will need to heed the new radio requirements.

 

There is an account of the exciting incident that occurred on our passage of the tidal Thames in 2006 here: http://www.grahamoliver.com/archive/20061005.htm

 

Exciting, if scary, stuff!

Edited July 17, 2008 by Black Ibis

[GUMPY]

Any advice? Is it a silly idea? Obv. lifejackets are essential etc. And does anyone want to join us (mid to late August) for a convoy? St Pancras CC haven't got anything on, alas.

 

I have used the tideway a lot and my advice is DONT do Teddington to Limehouse as your first trip.

It is much easier and safer to do Limehouse to Brentford as the first trip, best early morning before the trip boats start.

The tideway can be a very unforgiving place when the trip boats are about they can create some serious wash.

When going from Teddington to Limehouse you arrive at full ebb and as Limehouse is on the outside of the band the current there is particulary strong. The only safe way to enter is to turn below Limehouse and come back upstream you could find yourself pushing a 4 knot tide.

Once you get into the entrance there is a vary nasty back eddy which if you are not carful will take you straight into the upstream wall..................

 

these guides are very useful (1mb each)

Upstream http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/33

Down stream http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/35

Lock availability http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/20349

 

Do I understand that you will only have been boating for a few weeks at this time?

 

Julian

[Keeping Up]

The entrance to Limehouse is VERY difficult unless you are highly experienced at boating in fast-flowing water (and if you are that experienced it still only scales back to "quite difficult"), I wouldn't recommend it in this case. If you want to do the tideway trip, and can comply with the necessary VHF radio regulations (and your insurance company are happy too) then come in at Brentford, go by canal to Limehouse, and come back along the tideway to Brentford again.

 

Edited because cross-posted with Idleness. And I see that we agree!

Edited July 17, 2008 by Keeping Up

[Black Ibis]

Thanks!

 

Yeah, it seems sensible to go the other way round if we decide to do it!

[Ernie]

We did the trip down to Limehouse last year - great fun but I would NOT recommend it as a 'first trip'.

 

Story here: http://www.erniesplace.com/_BoatingDiaries...8_Limehouse.htm

 

I agree with the comments above, the entrance into Limehouse is a challenge !! If in doubt, abort and go around again.

[Tim Lewis]

We did the trip down to Limehouse last year - great fun but I would NOT recommend it as a 'first trip'.

 

Story here: http://www.erniesplace.com/_BoatingDiaries...8_Limehouse.htm

 

I agree with the comments above, the entrance into Limehouse is a challenge !! If in doubt, abort and go around again.

 

I would also agree about the route, we have had a couple of scary moments getting into Limehouse whilst Limehouse to Brentford/Teddington is a doddle.

 

As others have said you will need VHF if you are over 45' and on your own, the PLA regs are at:

 

http://www.pla.co.uk/display_dynamic.cfm/i...site/navigation

 

Also worth checking your insurance, ours states that we must make the journey in company with another boat.

 

Also BW, IWA and SPCC have produced tideway guides which are recommended reading.

 

A few pictures of Fulbourne on the Tideway:

 

http://www.pbase.com/timlewis/excel_trip_january_2006

 

http://www.fulbourne.org.uk/th0506/index.html

 

http://www.pbase.com/timlewis/protest_crui...07&page=all

 

Enjoy yourself - its prob the most exciting trip you can make on a canal boat!

 

Tim

Edited July 17, 2008 by Tim Lewis

[bargiepat]

Hi, It can be great fun but keep out of the cratch area !!!!!!!!!

 

 

Regards, Patrick.

[tony collins]

Agree with all above, another reason for going upstream is that you don't have to cross the stream. You seem to have already contacted the St Pancras Cruising Club, but have you seen their excellent guides to the river on their website?

 

Last time I was down there, about twenty odd boats were all trying to get into Limehouse at the same time, and the ebb was getting very "impressive" by the time we were all locked through!

 

Tony.

Edited July 17, 2008 by tony collins

[moggyjo]

A friend of mine from Springfield, did the trip first time with SPCC, the next time he was heading into Limehouse in his Dutch Barge, he hit the wall and his friend went plop into the river. Scarey stuff

[WJM]

Agreed - the downward trip is much harder 1) because you will meet all the commercial traffic and 2) because getting into Limehouse is difficult.

 

My strategy, based on years of wild water canoeing, is to turn early, pick a point about a length upstream of the lock and drive at it on full power. The current will then pull you down into the entrance. Then as the bow ploughs into the slack while the stern is still in the flow, you will need to slam on right rudder to hold your line and kill the power to stop the boat rolling violently. It is a challenge. Whatever way you do it, you will be absolutely pumped with adrenalin when you arrive!

[Ernie]

Agreed - the downward trip is much harder 1) because you will meet all the commercial traffic and 2) because getting into Limehouse is difficult.

 

My strategy, based on years of wild water canoeing, is to turn early, pick a point about a length upstream of the lock and drive at it on full power. The current will then pull you down into the entrance.

 

That’s how we ended up entering Limehouse due to the lock keeper asking us to come straight in from the far side of the river as we were heading down stream so that we could turn across the river and approach the lock into the tidal flow.

 

A GPS track of our Limehouse lock entry can be seen here.

http://www.erniesplace.com/_BoatingDiaries...ehouse_Lock.pdf

 

What the track doesn’t show is the fact that the bow of the boat was actually pointing slightly up stream and it was the tidal flow causing the boat to drift down stream. The trick was to use engine power to balance out the pull of the tide such that the bow was level with the lock entry by the time we had crossed the river – great fun.

 

It all sounds a bit hairy but there is always the option to abort and go around again (well, there is until you pass the point of no return once the bow is near the lock entrance).

[blackrose]

That’s how we ended up entering Limehouse due to the lock keeper asking us to come straight in from the far side of the river as we were heading down stream so that we could turn across the river and approach the lock into the tidal flow.

 

A GPS track of our Limehouse lock entry can be seen here.

http://www.erniesplace.com/_BoatingDiaries...ehouse_Lock.pdf

 

What the track doesn’t show is the fact that the bow of the boat was actually pointing slightly up stream and it was the tidal flow causing the boat to drift down stream. The trick was to use engine power to balance out the pull of the tide such that the bow was level with the lock entry by the time we had crossed the river – great fun.

 

It all sounds a bit hairy but there is always the option to abort and go around again (well, there is until you pass the point of no return once the bow is near the lock entrance).

 

Why would a lockkeeper tell you how to make your entrance? Are you sure there wasn't a misunderstanding? You are the master of your vessel on the river, not the lockkeeper - they can offer advice but they should never tell you how to handle your boat. When I asked the lockkeeper at Brentford about this he told me all the options but was very careful not to tell me which one I should choose. Once you're in the cut/lock they can tell you what to do, but it's not up to them to tell you what to do on the river.

 

The entrance to Limehouse can be done in the way you describe, but I wouldn't recommend anyone try this unless they're very experienced. The problem is that you're running with the tide and you have less water passing over your rudder so less control over your steering. You'll be travelling very fast and if you get it wrong you've got much less opportunity to rectify it before you hit one of the walls. Much better to go past the entrance (on the opposite side of the river), make a turn across the river and back up towards the entrance. Then you can make the final turn turn into the entrance keeping away from any eddies next to the downstream wall. Using this 'indirect approach' if you get it wrong you can always back out, let the current take you downstream for a few yards and try again - you may not have that option with the 'direct approach'.

 

 

As others have said, it's much easier to leave from Limehouse and go up to Brentford or Teddington.

Edited July 18, 2008 by blackrose

[nbtafelberg]

I would advise first time on the thames go in at Brentford.

 

The tidal is a different beast to the Non-Tidal thames by a long way.

 

Then come out at limehouse and go up early in the morning when the trip boats are not out and neither is a lot of other traffic.

 

Also make sure you have enough deisel and your weed hatch is clear

Edited July 18, 2008 by nbtafelberg

[WJM]

I would say with a very long boat you are better to go with my 'kamikaze' approach rather than the drop down and come back up approach. The problem dropping down is that as you start to turn in, the bow will be in the slack while the stern will be out in the flow, thus working totally against you. More chance of bashing into the lower wall as you fail to turn quickly enough.

[Ernie]

Why would a lockkeeper tell you how to make your entrance? Are you sure there wasn't a misunderstanding?

I don’t believe there was any misunderstanding.

 

Quote from my web page:

As we were getting close to the entrance while still heading downstream, the lock keeper called us up on the radio and suggested that we should just cross the river and head straight into the lock as there was no other traffic about.

 

To be very fair to the lock keeper, he was certainly not giving us a ‘command’, just the suggestion that the lock was ready for us and nothing was coming so we could cross now and enter the lock.

 

Our ‘Plan A’ was to enter as you suggest in your post.

 

Personally, next time I am down Limehouse way, regardless of what the lock keeper ‘suggests’, I will follow the ‘Plan A’ and approach from down stream just to see how it goes that way.

 

I guess the lock keeper saw no problem entering the lock by the direct method otherwise he would not have suggested we do it ???

Edited July 18, 2008 by Ernie

[GUMPY]

One tip that I havent mentioned is as follows:

When facing upstream just downstream of the pier head cut your speed right back so you are just keeping station against the tide or creeping forward very slowly, then ferryglide across towards the pier head until the end of the pier head is about one third back from the bow then keep going sideways until you are touching the pier head. Dont worry its wood and its sprung not solid. Then just roll the boat round the pier head into the entrance keeping as close to the pier head as possible and taking care to miss the pontoon. This stops you being taken by the back eddy and means a clean entrance and no chance of ending up in the upstream wall.

 

If anyone wants a real challenge try stopping on the outer pontoon if its still there.

 

 

Julian

 

Any advice given is as is and if you ake a mess of it its not my fault.

 

I would say with a very long boat you are better to go with my 'kamikaze' approach rather than the drop down and come back up approach. The problem dropping down is that as you start to turn in, the bow will be in the slack while the stern will be out in the flow, thus working totally against you. More chance of bashing into the lower wall as you fail to turn quickly enough.

 

Have you actually done the approach to Limehouse?

Its almost impossible to hit the downstream wall but very easy to hit the upstram one.

 

I quite often when I am down that way stand on the bridge and watch boats arriving it can be an eyeopener............

Edited July 18, 2008 by idleness

[WJM]

"Have you actually done the approach to Limehouse?"

 

Yes - I always go in torpedo fashion. I was relating it to wild water canoeing. You always attack into an eddy so that you have the momentum to push through the slack water and keep control. Dropping into an eddy sideway causes the boat to stop dead pointing upstream in the slack water immediately beside the flow.

[John Orentas]

Hi Ibi'

 

Don't talk yourself into thinking you are inexperienced or that the trip is 'Dangerous'. If you took notice of every doom monger on this forum you would never get out of your marina..

 

My advice for what it is worth; of course research the trip as best you can there are lots of publications, leaflets and informed people to talk too.. And then 'Go for it' , that does not reflect some silly macho attitude, when you are on the river communicate with the lock-keepers and follow their advice, they will not tell you to head into Limehouse "like a torpedo" but approach calmly upstream as we should on any river.

 

It is not 'scary' but I hope you will find it a little exhilarating, when you are safely in Limehouse basin you will wonder what all the fuss has been about.

Edited July 18, 2008 by John Orentas

[Black Ibis]

Hi Ibi'

 

Don't talk yourself into thinking you are inexperienced or that the trip is 'Dangerous'. If you took notice of every doom monger on this forum you would never get out of your marina..

 

My advice for what it is worth, of course research the trip as best you can there are lots of publications, leaflets and informed people to talk too.. And 'Go for it' and that does not reflect some silly macho attitude, when you are on the river communicate with the lock-keepers and follow their advice, they will not tell you to head into Limehouse "like a torpedo" but approach calmly upstream as we should on any river.

 

It is not 'scary' but I hope you will find it a little exhilarating, when you are safely in Limehouse basin you will wonder what all the fuss has been about.

 

 

Thanks for the encouragement! We're working on it. I mean we're not that experienced narrowboaters but the other half has had much experience coxing on the Tideway in a far flimsier boat!

[Denis R]

Don't talk yourself into thinking you are inexperienced or that the trip is 'Dangerous'. If you took notice of every doom monger on this forum you would never get out of your marina..

I've not done this trip myself yet and don't consider the advice given by those that have in this thread 'doom mongering'. I consider it wise counsel from those that know more than me and a firm basis for approaching a possible trip with the right level of respect and preparation.

[Tim Lewis]

Hi Ibi'

 

Don't talk yourself into thinking you are inexperienced or that the trip is 'Dangerous'. If you took notice of every doom monger on this forum you would never get out of your marina..

 

My advice for what it is worth; of course research the trip as best you can there are lots of publications, leaflets and informed people to talk too.. And then 'Go for it' , that does not reflect some silly macho attitude, when you are on the river communicate with the lock-keepers and follow their advice, they will not tell you to head into Limehouse "like a torpedo" but approach calmly upstream as we should on any river.

 

It is not 'scary' but I hope you will find it a little exhilarating, when you are safely in Limehouse basin you will wonder what all the fuss has been about.

 

I don't know how many times you've enterted limehouse lock from the Thames but I have a few times and it has never been easy. The one time have been on when an inexperienced steerer attempted the 'torpedo' method was probably the scariest moment of my boating life, it was only an experienced steerer grabbing the tiller and taking over that saved us from a very serious accident.

 

I have also known experienced steerers cock up the entrance when approaching from downstream (one of the dents in the upstream wall is ours! ) Just judging the point at which you trurn into the tide is not easy - I have seen boats swept down towards Canary Wharf before they have managed to turn.

 

By all means talk to the lock keepers but remember that they do not have a good view of what is happening upstream.

 

If you are inexperienced on tidal waters take the advise given and do the trip out of Limehouse, it will be one of the highlights of your boating career, don't make it one of your scariest.

 

Tim

[Black Ibis]

I don't think anything that's been said was doom and gloom, but it was nice to get some encouragement too. We will probably take the advice given here and attempt it from Limehouse. It won't affect our intinerary, so we may as well make things a bit easier!

Edited July 18, 2008 by Black Ibis