Simply unspeakable

[StoneHenge]

The sad thing about this (other than the fact that a 15 yr old girl will now be without legs) is that her parents will most likely sue for damages, when in reality, it could have been as simple as a group of girls messing about by the canal and a tragic accident happened.

 

There are plenty of dangers, and if they made everyone aware of them, kids will still most likely ignore them. I am not saying they are to blame. I just think they were in the wrong place, wrong time, are were not aware of the dangers.

 

It would be sad to have something like this closed because of someone else's recklessness, and the chances are due to the 'where there is blame, there's a claim' society, someone, somewhere will end up shelling out a wad of money, which in turn will have to be clawed back somewhere and someone, somewhere (most likely boaters) will end up footing the bill.

 

I feel desperately sorry for the girl, and we don't know the full facts yet, however I'd bet it was a simple case of messing about by the river, so to speak.

[Phil Speight]

That really is truly awful, poor girl.

 

It isn't hard to get hold of BW keys, or any keys come to that, so messing about with the bridge isn't hard to imagine happening.

 

As to the parents? Young people of this girl's age deserve and have to have a good amount of freedom. Without a very good reason for grounding them, could or would you stop a fifteen year-old going out with their friends? You have to rely on their developing commonsense, combined with your guidance, to keep them out of most dangers . . .

When our wharf looses it`s water it can often be because a boater could`nt be bothered closing the nearby lock gate because a) they think it unnecessary specially when you are as expert as they are or because they can`t be bothered. Same could well apply to a swing bridge . You don`t need a key to play with a bridge that hasn`t been properly closed. You never know.

Whatever - the poor girl didn`t deserve such a ruinous injury whoever`s fault it was.

Phil

[magpie patrick]

Very very sad indeed. She has paid a very high price for teenage recklesness, and not necessarily her own recklessness.

 

However, age and curfews isn't the answer, they will be broken and unless there are houses with a good view and "natural supervision" no one is going to enforce anything. The girl is fifteen, looking at her photo if I had to give her the benefit of the doubt for being sixteen I would.

 

We went through this bridge a few weeks ago. There are several issues with it. The bolt that locks it is quite difficult to secure: it doesn't naturaly lock back like some designs do. Also, you can get this bridge really moving: I opened it with a clang without trying. Two simple measures that may have prevented this would be a locking bolt that snaps back when the bridge closes, and a damping mechansism to slow it down.

 

A third way that might help is to make the bridge windlass operated like the lift bridges on the Peak Forest (even replace it with a lift bridge to achieve this). Such bridges are very difficult to move at all without a windlass and only move slowly with.

[NB Alnwick]

This is all very well but there are more kids killed, maimed or injured every year, on the roads, than have been killed, maimed or injured, on the canals, in anyone here's lifetime.

 

Knee-jerk reactions to a tragic accident will lead to canal closures, because this sort of tragedy is possible.

 

Kids take risks. Some of them get hurt. Most of them don't.

 

A very sound and common sense comment from Carl - this is life and the canals are safer to play on than the roads and railways but there are still risks and, sadly, it needs an occasional accident like this to teach children (and I include teenagers in this category) just how dangerous those risks can be. Any knee jerk reaction, by BWB and the HSE, could cause permanent harm to our heritage infrastructure that has been regarded as basically safe (by those endowed with common sense) for over 200 years.

[GSer]

It is certainly a tragic accident, i'm sure most children would not appreciate the danger when out with a few friends messing about on the canal.

 

At Hungerford the kids play on the swingbridge behind the church throughout the summer, again it's an accident waiting to happen, if the bridge is padlocked the lock gets superglue treatment, if its locked with a windlass 'bolt' the kids have an amazing persistance banging away at it till the bridge can be swung.

 

Education is the answer, I think, show children the dangers that lurk around our waterways. As an apprentice we were shown many instances and examples of how vulnerable the human body is when mingled with metalwork, that certainly made me careful around workshops and machinery.

 

Paul

 

PS Lengthsmen may help but I feel it would need a substantial investment to be effective

[NB Phoenix]

As far as I can see this poor girl was sitting on the swing bridge with her legs over the end. In this location SHE could not move the bridge.

 

SO. Somebody at the other end of the bridge has swung it closed.

[Neildudman]

swing bridges have been around for hundreds of years. There is now one high profile incident and we now need to adapt the use / running / opperation of them? Give over. Accidents happen irrespective of how. That's life - shame for the girl but she should not have been on it or near it. Leave the canals as they are, dangerous? Possibly depending on behavior and use. How many accidents in 300 years? Not to many I would guess.

[Yoda]

There were more accidents when trains became common.

 

As I wrote, above, a bit more street savvey and she would have been OK. I see this as a lack of parental common sence ie dont play down by the canal unless you take your big brother. Alas big brother is now out of his tree on crack cocaine.

[Mrs Strads]

It is very sad that this has happened and will change this girls and her families lives forever. As other have said these things have happend many times during the life of the canals. This was not the first time this has happend nor will it be the last. Due to media coverage and the internet these days we all know about these types of incidents where as in the early days of the canals the "towpath" telegraph and local village gossip and local news paper would have been all the coverage this was given.

 

Education would help and I am sure most schools and youth groups cover water related issues like drowning. It is a shame that they do not seem to cover common sense and the science of moving objects as well.

 

Gser pointed out that she could have not swung the bridge so the person(s) that did will have to live with what they have done and that is another life(s) blighted by this inccedent.

I am sure it will affect us all as users of the waterways I just hope it does not get blown out proportion as has happend with some of the cases on the railway lines.

[CanalWalker]

we crushed someones bike with a lift bridge once. silly place to leave your bike, leaning against an open liftbridge.

[magpie patrick]

swing bridges have been around for hundreds of years. There is now one high profile incident and we now need to adapt the use / running / opperation of them? Give over. Accidents happen irrespective of how. That's life - shame for the girl but she should not have been on it or near it. Leave the canals as they are, dangerous? Possibly depending on behavior and use. How many accidents in 300 years? Not to many I would guess.

 

In principle I'd agree with Carl T that canals are not dangerous relative to other places used as playgrounds like roads and building sites. However Swing and lift bridges have claimed their share (more than their share) of victims which is why they are always lockable and also why no rope operated lift bridges remain. The point I was making was that this bridge (which I have first hand experience of) had obvious shortcomings compared to others I've used: it is easy to accidentally leave it unlocked and you can really clatter it round, and was actually a bit disconcerting even for the experienced user. I can't say this accident should have been foreseen because despite my reservations I never thought of it as dangerous IN THAT WAY. However simple precautions, not closing down the canal system, would make such an horrific experience much less likely.

 

At a guess, the bridge was left unlocked on a semi regular basis (I found it unlocked when we went through, or rather, the bolt was locked but not engaged so it was innefective) and these kids thought it was a great laugh to crash the bridge open and closed and probably did it on a regular basis. One day a girl saw the obviuos ledge and sat on it, and the kids either didn't see her or didn't realise the risk in swinging it at full pelt with her there... that fifteen year old girl has had her life aspirations amputated as well as her legs.

[WJM]

"swing bridges have been around for hundreds of years"

 

Until relatively recent times the canals were closed off to the public, much like rail lines are now. Additionally, until recently they were in regular use by commercial operators who would have chased away a group of kids. Imagine a group of kids sitting near a rail track. How long till a driver radioed in and the Police are called to get them out? Now that canals have become linear public parks the whole situation is changed. Equipment that is safe in the hands of knowledgeable people is now open to people with much less wisdom. Latches or dampers seem the logical answer to the danger presented by this bridge.

 

 

 

"that fifteen year old girl has had her life aspirations amputated as well as her legs"

 

She could turn out to be a world renowned writer, politician, business person etc etc. Stephen Hawking has done ok for himself!

Edited June 24, 2008 by WJM

[carlt]

Making the bridge safer, by slowing its action or making it easier to lock, is fine and I'm all in favour of that.

 

The problem is that, the usual reaction is to declare "This bridge will now be fixed open (or closed, or removed)" and access is reduced and the kids go off and find something else dangerous, to play with.

 

 

 

Until relatively recent times the canals were closed off to the public, much like rail lines are now. Additionally, until recently they were in regular use by commercial operators who would have chased away a group of kids. Imagine a group of kids sitting near a rail track. How long till a driver radioed in and the Police are called to get them out? Now that canals have become linear public parks the whole situation is changed. Equipment that is safe in the hands of knowledgeable people is now open to people with much less wisdom. Latches or dampers seem the logical answer to the danger presented by this bridge.

Could you tell me at which point, in history, the canals were inaccessible to the public?

 

They were never fenced off, like railways, except in certain urban areas.

[magpie patrick]

"swing bridges have been around for hundreds of years"

 

"that fifteen year old girl has had her life aspirations amputated as well as her legs"

 

She could turn out to be a world renowned writer, politician, business person etc etc. Stephen Hawking has done ok for himself!

 

She could, and I hope she does. I thought twice about making that comment before I posted it but I wanted to spike the "accidents happen" thinking. It's more likely though that her aspirations were fairly routine (get a job, find a man, have kids) and this will be a lot more difficult for her. Not impossible, but not at all easy. Before anyone leaps on my assessment of her aspirations, mine could loosely be described as get a job, find a woman, have kids. I've done the first two. I broke my leg so badly when I was 24 that amputation was a faint possibility and believe me the future looked bleak at that moment: thoughts like "what woman would want a bloke with one leg" were very much to the fore.

[JohnEW2912]

We came down this length yesterday moring, just before hearing of the incident. There seemed to be nothing wrong with either of the two swing bridges (don't know which one it was). Certainly the locking mechanisms did not seem to have been vandalised on either, so I would think the most likely outcome was that a boater left it not properly locked, which would allow the kids to play on it. Both bridges are hevily used as footpaths by the locals - I let people across on both yesterday before opening them, before 9.00 a.m.

[larkshall]

Someone said education is the answer for kids (including teenagers). I think that could be extended to boaters (yes I include myself). have only used the one swingbridge in the UK.(nr selby boat centre). But if I encounter any, I shall make sure the damn thing is locked... I WOULD dread the feeling if I knew I had left it unlocked.

 

Assuming it was a boater would it be a hol-hirer or grockle, or would it be an owner?. I have heard many of you bemoan hirers here and on the esteemed narrrowboat world site. Are they taught about swing bridges?..

 

Law suits?, and who can sue whom eh?. I@M presuming it WAS a boat user who left it unlocked, that should be the starting point, and not BW on this occassion. Though I mIGHT re-design the lock mechanism to keep the key until bridge is re-locked> Oh each key should be traceable.

Still a damned shame for the child though.

[alan_fincher]

Swing and lift bridges have claimed their share (more than their share) of victims which is why they are always lockable...............

They are not.

 

The non electrically operated examples of swing bridges remaining on the southern Grand Union, are not lockable, and such an accident is theoretically possible, (at least at the two I know well).

 

But the crushing of children who insist on swimming around the very deep gates at the foot of Iron Bridge lock is probably far more likely.

 

Just how much do you try and mitigate against stupid behaviors ? In many cases you simply can't put measures in place, (swimming in and around locks being one).

 

There is a chilling Marine Accident Investigation Board report available on the web that tells of the tragic death of 4 disabled people when a boat was sunk in a lock, with them trapped inside.

 

A major issue that came in to play there was that it was not possible to wind paddles fast enough to try and avert the tragedy, because they were locked with anti-vandal keys, and the person near them didn't have a handcuff key.

 

Had those anti-vandal measures not had to be put in place, it's quite possible 4 innocent victims would have lived.

 

Certainly the locks around where I live that have had locks added can pose a very serious threat if boats get hung on anything.

 

And it's all pretty pointless, because several of the locks have been 'cold chiseled', and are inoperative.

[magpie patrick]

They are not.

 

The non electrically operated examples of swing bridges remaining on the southern Grand Union, are not lockable, and such an accident is theoretically possible, (at least at the two I know well).

 

But the crushing of children who insist on swimming around the very deep gates at the foot of Iron Bridge lock is probably far more likely.

 

There is a chilling Marine Accident Investigation Board report available on the web that tells of the tragic death of 4 disabled people when a boat was sunk in a lock, with them trapped inside.

 

A major issue that came in to play there was that it was not possible to wind paddles fast enough to try and avert the tragedy, because they were locked with anti-vandal keys, and the person near them didn't have a handcuff key.

 

Had those anti-vandal measures not had to be put in place, it's quite possible 4 innocent victims would have lived.

 

Certainly the locks around where I live that have had locks added can pose a very serious threat if boats get hung on anything.

 

And it's all pretty pointless, because several of the locks have been 'cold chiseled', and are inoperative.

 

I didn't know the southern GU bridges were not locked. Every swing bridge I've encountered (L&L, Ashton, Peak Forest, Macc, Huddersfield, Bridgwater and Taunton) has been. Change to "generally locked". However, one of the GU ones was the scene of an accident thirty or more years ago that was nothing to with locking. From descriptions Winkwell was operated with a big handle that spun madly when someone hit the bridge with a boat and either killed or seriosuly injured the operator. At least one holiday maker has been killed on the KandA and another on the Llangollen. These structures are potentially dangerous and BW have generally tried to reduce that danger.

 

As for the L&L this was another tragic accident but the description above over simplifies it. For one, it should be standard practice to unlock all paddles regardless of direction of travel: Ripple would have sunk on the HNC had we not done this because I needed to refill a lock quickly when she hung up, and the error was compouned by opening the gate paddles first and flooding the boat, which is why they have now have baffles fitted to them.

[Purple Fairie]

I'm afraid education and/or supervision isn't going to stop accidents happening. Coming through Leeds in the height of summer, nearly every lock had families camped out on the grass, parents 3 sheets to the wind watching their kids, some as old as 8, 'cooling off' by jumping into the locks, some were diving in while we had the paddles open!!! Then asking if they could use the shower!!! You can teach people til you're blue in the face but there are some that just aren't going to listen. I'm not saying this girl was anything like this example but just pointing out the mentality of some folk.

[RLWP]

sit on swing bridges with their legs hanging over the sides.

 

According to the video on the BBC website, she was sitting on the concrete wall that the swing bridge opens against and was struck by the bridge.

 

Does anyone know if this bridge naturally stands open or closed - if left on its own what position would it take?

 

Richard

[magpie patrick]

That makes more sense. I can't say the bridge naturally stays anywhere, it's just very free running and yet very heavy. And yes thinking about it there are no endstops as I noticed the concrete was cracked from acting as a buffer.

 

I'm surprised there was anything left to amputate if she was hit with the bridge while sitting there.

[GSer]

I'm afraid education and/or supervision isn't going to stop accidents happening.

 

Education would not prevent all accidents, that would be impossible, but had the unfortunate girl been taught the power of inertia in real life situations perhaps she may been more alert to the dangers.

 

As for people swimming in locks, telling them not to just seems to encourage them but I've found a more subtle approach works well with kids. I just enquire as to weather they have seen the posters warning of the outbreak of Leptospirosis on the canal, they deny any knowledge but are really curious when you look around the edge of the water with interest, from then on, any gently guided conversation ends up talking about the kids in the next village who caught the disease, a young lad, who, after swimming in the canal, grew breasts and his hair fell out. Normally the kids come out of the water like penguins in a wildlife film, always worked for me!

 

Paul

[Hairy-Neil]

They are not.

 

The non electrically operated examples of swing bridges remaining on the southern Grand Union, are not lockable, and such an accident is theoretically possible, (at least at the two I know well).

 

Ditto the Oxford Canal lift bridges...and an odd one on the Llangollen (Prees Branch?)

 

Though I notice the 'new' one in Banbury town centre has hydraulic operation, probably to deter the unauthorised use more than out of necessity.

[RLWP]

More - this is on the Daily Mail website:

 

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said: 'We were called at about 8.20pm on Friday following reports a 15-year-old girl was trapped in a swing bridge.

 

'She was there with a number of other children and they were swinging on the bridge, and some how she got her legs trapped in it.'

 

Daily Mail

 

Richard

[fender]

So many questions, and yet because of one thing it means a loss of virtually the lower half of one's body. Its really heartbreaking. I dont know what the outcome will be but I am sure that there will be results meaning that it will be harder still to operate things such as swing bridges. The canals were meant to be operated as simply as possible if you think about it, yet its getting more complicated and time-comsuming and is it really helping to make them safer???? The various ways of locking, unlocking, operation etc. Surely if there was a standard way of doing things it would be easier to implement safety?

 

Somehow I feel that this accident was sort of deliberate but the question is what was the bridge doing open in the first place? What sort of mechanisms were in place to stop it swinging close uneccesarily or deliberately - just imagine a swing bridge or lift bridge open and someone on a boat decides its ok to sail through it, up pop some yobbos and they let all hell loose...

 

For exmple many lift bridges on the South Oxford just need a push in order to crash down on unsuspecting boaters

Edited June 24, 2008 by fender