Simply unspeakable

[DHutch]

If you want to avoid being a victim, stay inside, lock your doors, board up your windows and hide behind the sofa.

- Kids are everywhere, melodyman. Live in fear of them if you like, personally I prefer to communicate with them.

I have to admit, while i cant speak for every incident, my gut feeling that a large number of 'attacks' on boaters could be avoided if the attitude of the boaters was diffrent. Eather the actaul boaters involved, or boaters before them.

 

Clearly its not just the boaters that cause to problem, but at the same time i have been boating all my lift. And in the last five years more and frequently, and have never had any real problem.

- I once had a handfull of acorns thrown at me by a group of 10-12 year olds. And had a girl spit the boat from a bridge once.

- We have also moored the boat up all over the place, often in places perceaved as 'rough' or 'no-go', often for a week or more with or without anyone staying the boat, and have never had any problems again.

 

 

Daniel

[Amduck]

Today, we were boating in an urban area. At one lock there was a small group of local residents, middle aged, chatting and partaking of alcohol. It was just after 9am. The previous night we had noted broken bottles in the region of two locks in the vicinity.

 

My husband was working the lock, while I was on the boat. He acknowledge locals, and was acknowledged. They neither interfered, nor showed much interest.

 

Another boat was following us. At the next lock, my husband heard them warning an upgoing crew about a group of "winos/vagrants" at the next lock, telling them to be careful. In our opinion, this was unnecessary and possibly inflammatory, but then we both have lots of experience of talking to and dealing with people who may not be within the mainstream of society.

 

What happened to this girl was a tragedy, born of the fact that most teenagers take risks, fail to see risks, and generally believe themselves both to know everything and to be immortal.

 

I guess my point is that we should beware of being afraid/over wary/rapidly judgmental of people we don't know. Most people, regardless of age, gender, level of alcohol or home circumstance, are benign.

[MartinClark]

I have to admit, while i cant speak for every incident, my gut feeling that a large number of 'attacks' on boaters could be avoided if the attitude of the boaters was diffrent. Eather the actaul boaters involved, or boaters before them.

 

I guess my point is that we should beware of being afraid/over wary/rapidly judgmental of people we don't know. Most people, regardless of age, gender, level of alcohol or home circumstance, are benign.

 

Good points. I have a feeling that boaters are more likely to experience trouble if they approach a canal with the closed view that 'that stretch of the canal is ''bad'' FACT end of' and that any young people in the area are 'yobs'.

[stort_mark]

Sad that we are so ready to assume ("reckless kids", etc), prejudge (plenty of examples) and cast bile on all who may be different from us. As we are so utterly determined that we already know the causes of this tragedy perhaps the HSE, BW and police investigations can be replaced by a summation of this thread: why have any independent enquiry that might prevent some future tragedy when we can have a more satisfying outcome based on our prejudices.

 

I, for one, would instantly reintroduce the death penalty for anyone found throwing sausages. Drive-by sausaging was one of the crimes they profiled last night on Police! Camera! Salami!

[carlt]

Having owned, and lived on, boats that are are at the scruffier end of the boating spectrum (in some blinkered eyes) I have regularly experienced this latent prejudice, borne of paranoia.

 

Eyes front, face held in a fixed grimace. "Don't look, dear and they'll leave us alone."

 

"Morning! Lovely day!"

 

"My god! He's seen us!! Musn't look.....mustn't look!"

 

I've even walked the towpath trying to elicit a response, and still they won't acknowledge your existence.

 

I overheard a loudly spoken derogatory comment, whilst moored next to the golf course, in Rugby, once. So I drove up to Hillmorton and worked the locks for them.

When the boat was in the top chamber the hubby stood and chatted, thanking me for my help. I told him that I was from the "unlicensed pile of s**t" that he'd just boated past and I thought I'd better introduce myself, and walked back to the car park.

 

Next time I saw him I got an apology and we've always had a chat, when we see each other, now.

 

I know other people, on less conventional boats, whose attitude is "If they treat me like crap, I'll behave like crap!" which is the attitude the bored kids, having a fag and alcopop, in the bridge hole, often have, too.

 

I prefer not to treat people like crap.

[Troll]

Having owned, and lived on, boats that are are at the scruffier end of the boating spectrum (in some blinkered eyes) I have regularly experienced this latent prejudice, borne of paranoia.

 

Eyes front, face held in a fixed grimace. "Don't look, dear and they'll leave us alone."

 

"Morning! Lovely day!"

 

"My god! He's seen us!! Musn't look.....mustn't look!"

 

I've even walked the towpath trying to elicit a response, and still they won't acknowledge your existence.

 

I overheard a loudly spoken derogatory comment, whilst moored next to the golf course, in Rugby, once. So I drove up to Hillmorton and worked the locks for them.

When the boat was in the top chamber the hubby stood and chatted, thanking me for my help. I told him that I was from the "unlicensed pile of s**t" that he'd just boated past and I thought I'd better introduce myself, and walked back to the car park.

 

Next time I saw him I got an apology and we've always had a chat, when we see each other, now.

 

I know other people, on less conventional boats, whose attitude is "If they treat me like crap, I'll behave like crap!" which is the attitude the bored kids, having a fag and alcopop, in the bridge hole, often have, too.

 

I prefer not to treat people like crap.

 

Believe me I am Very Sorry to say this, but you dont come across that way, (in my eyes) when I read some of your replies.

[carlt]

Believe me I am Very Sorry to say this, but you dont come across that way, (in my eyes) when I read some of your replies.

Care to elaborate?

 

If disagreeing with people in an open forum and debating with them is, in your eyes, treating them like crap, then I would suggest your eyes need testing.

Edited June 28, 2008 by carlt

[Troll]

Care to elaborate?

 

It may be how I read your posts, its an opinion I formed of you after reading some of your replies to posts, possibly unfairly, you could be a wondefull guy, its simply how you come across to me.

 

Hope I`m wrong, maybe we`ll meet one day and I will change my opinion, like I said I am sorry, its to me simply how you come across many times to me.

[carlt]

It may be how I read your posts, its an opinion I formed of you after reading some of your replies to posts, possibly unfairly, you could be a wondefull guy, its simply how you come across to me.

 

Hope I`m wrong, maybe we`ll meet one day and I will change my opinion, like I said I am sorry, its to me simply how you come across many times to me.

So you won't elaborate....who's at fault here?

 

If you're going to insult someone, the least you can do is have some sensible argument to back it up.

[Guest melodyman]

Oh I communicate with kids Carl and I would be the last person to hide behind anything.

I just dont walk around with a blinkered view.

Cheers.

[stort_mark]

If you're going to insult someone, the least you can do is have some sensible argument to back it up.

 

To be fair, s/he did insult you exceptionally politely. And it was done in a classicly English manner, prefaced with a humble apology.

[carlt]

Oh I communicate with kids Carl and I would be the last person to hide behind anything.

I just dont walk around with a blinkered view.

Cheers.

I'd hardly describe my view as blinkered.

 

 

To be fair, s/he did insult you exceptionally politely. And it was done in a classicly English manner, prefaced with a humble apology.

True....typical Troll!

[Guest melodyman]

I never said your view was blinkered Carl.

 

Melody Man, please get off your high horse.

 

I also grew up in this area, admittedly in the posher areas up the Peak Forest Canal. If you take personal knowledge as a sign that a length of canal is bad, then Middlewich is homophobic: I've been subject to anti gay abuse there even though I'm straight (wearing a Bath Rugby shirt was enough).

 

I have cruised the Ashton a few times, and cycled it many. It is better now than it ever was in the past.

 

This incident had two root causes: reckless teenage behaviour, and the fact that the endstop is the bridge hitting the concrete abutment. Comments on this forum suggest the girl might already have kids and that the teenagers are trouble to boaters. Both MAY be true but are very unlikley, even in "rough" areas only a small percentage have kids by 15 and very few boaters get trouble.

 

Here, from my personal experience, is where I've had trouble on a boat

 

Dudley no 2 canal: beer bottle bounced off roof (followed by apology: "throwing it away and didn't see you)

Rushall Canal: stones thown

Junction of slough branch: travellers kids didn't understand that my hire boat wasn't a public bench, but not trouble

"you ******* pufter" middlewich, based on Bath Rugby shirt

sausage thrown at me, Rochdale 9 in Manchester

bottle of Coke (full) thrown in Worksop

 

I've done all the BCN, most of the london waterways and the ashton/rochdale. It's not exactly a long list. I've felt uneasy many many times, but those are the only ones where I've had "trouble"

 

Being geographically correct, I don't.

 

Hertfordshire is a large county, Hertford the county town of that county.

 

There is a lot of Hertfordshire that is a good many miles from Hertford, and believe me it's not all million pound houses with a BMW and a 4x4 on the drive. Any area of the country can have it's problems - it's not a uniquely Northern thing.

 

I do fully support your argument that parents should play a greater part in the education and control of their kids, and to hopefully know that they are not being a public nuisance. However, political correctness, or not, in this country we have the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". You don't, I believe, have any evidence that says this particular girl's friends harass boaters, and in the circumstances, until you do, I stand by my original belief that you should not suggest it.

 

Alan.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Liam
Post edited by Liam.

[stort_mark]

Post removed.

 

Ah. More reason and rationale. I'm just drawing up a list of places I have lived. I'll be sending them to you to see if I am qualified to comment on this thread.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Liam
Post edited by Liam.

[saltysplash]

Ah. More reason and rationale. I'm just drawing up a list of places I have lived. I'll be sending them to you to see if I am qualified to comment on this thread.

 

 

If you get a reply mark, could you let me know if I qualify with Rochdale, Peckham, Woolwich and Belfast under my belt? I wouldve mentioned Croydon but thats a real slum

[Chris J W]

Gentlemen - could we stop the bickering? Not really appropiate on such a thread.

[alan_fincher]

Post removed

Thank goodness you spelt 'conservative' with a small 'c'.

 

If you had used a capital 'C' you might have upset me!

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

Edited June 30, 2008 by Liam
Post edited by Liam.

[Liam]

We're drifting... can we please get back on topic.

 

If there is no further constructive comments to be made then I shall lock the thread.

[carlt]

Post removed.

The sheer intellectual strength of your argument has left me reeling.

 

I cannot possibly hope to match your words of wisdom so I concede defeat.

 

Your depth of knowledge on the subject and immense debating skills lead me to believe that your talents are wasted on a mere internet forum and you'd be better served in the debating halls of Oxford or Cambridge.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Liam
Post edited by Liam.

[Liam]

Topic locked.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Liam