Moorings Tendering breaches Sex Discrimination Act

[psi]

I believe that the Moorings Tendering Trial breaches the Sex Discrimination Act because women are less able to make the highest bids for moorings because of their lower incomes.

 

Competitive tendering favours people on higher incomes, who are more likely to be men, and reduces access to those on lower incomes, who are more likely to be women. Although the tendering process applies to everyone, it disadvantages women, whose lower incomes make them less likely to be the highest bidder in a competitive tendering process. On average, women’s earnings are 71% of men’s and there is an even bigger income gap between retired men and women.

 

Since 2006 all public authorities have had a duty to consider to the need to promote equality of opportunity between women and men and eliminate unlawful discrimination. BW obviously did not take account of this when introducing the tendering trial.

 

I have complained to Sally Ash at BW about this and have informed the Equality and Human Rights Commission (3 More London, Riverside Tooley Street, London SE1 2RG). I hope other boaters will do so too!

 

Psi

[blackrose]

In that case surely the whole market system disadvantages women, not just mooring tendering? Why not write letters of complaint to Tescos and your boat builder too? I mean according to your reasoning, women are discriminated against because as lower earners they are less likely to own Rolls Royces....

 

I keep hearing that women's earnings are less than men's but I have to say I've never seen it myself. In my own experience the women I've worked with were all paid more than me, sometimes even though we were doing the same job (ok they had a higher job description, but we were doing the same job.)

 

I really think that the average 71% figure you quote is meaningless without a breakdown of how it is made up in terms of earnings brackets. For example, could it be due to a greater proportion of male high rollers at the top? Which then makes me wonder if the easy targets of male jobs and wages at the bottom end of the economic ladder are being sacrificed in an effort to compensate for the shortfall of women at the top?

 

What about discrimination against the poor in every aspect of life? It seems to me that everyone gets up in arms about discrimination against different minorities or sections of society, but when it comes to economic discrimination against the poor even liberal-minded people behave as if it's acceptable.

 

Anyway, if your letter results in BW scrapping the moorings tendering scheme then I'm a militant feminist too!

Edited May 4, 2008 by blackrose

[Windjammer]

Don't forget that boaters are discriminated against anyway - they pay more than any other canal user.

[Timleech]

I believe that the Moorings Tendering Trial breaches the Sex Discrimination Act because women are less able to make the highest bids for moorings because of their lower incomes.

 

 

Psi

 

In the immortal words of John McEnroe

 

"You cannot be seerius"

 

Tim

[Shamu1]

I have to disagree with the topic being a woman I put a bid in which was sucessful I do disagree with the tendering for a mooring based on price but if we want to have canals then someone is going to have to pay to maintain them, otherwise all the people in the past who fought to re-open them will have wasted their time and effort. I travel on a very special boat which is adapted for a wheelchair user and I can tell you he faces discrimination every day, we bought tickets for him to watch a show in a theatre where he paid the highest price for a space for his chair where was it at the back of the theatre it was the Blues Brothers band and of course everyone in front got up to dance around leaving John watching their backs, when I asked could I move him into the aisle I was told no because of health and safety. I would like BW to have more disabled access points for us more disabled showers and moorings but working with their coordinator we found one that is suitable for wheel chair access. They can only try their best to please us and of course some of the time they will get it wrong but if everyone stopped moaning at them and we all work together then like the people who fought so hard in the past and are still fighting to re-open canals we will all get waht we want

[sueb]

With moorings going to the highest bidder it makes a mockery of Social Inclusion, which should be one of BW's aims.

Sue

[blackrose]

With moorings going to the highest bidder it makes a mockery of Social Inclusion, which should be one of BW's aims.

Sue

 

Exactly! These days every large organisation is more or less obliged to harp on about its social inclusion and anti-discrimination practices, yet most of it is bollox.

 

As an aside, a friend of mine recently picked up a leaflet on the tube published by Transport for London which talked about how they were making efforts to make travelling across London a more pleasant experience if you were gay. He went into a rant as he waved the offending leaflet in my face.. "They can't run my bloody train on time so I can get to work, but they've got resources to spend on gays!" It did make me laugh. Probably one of Ken's schemes.

[psi]

With moorings going to the highest bidder it makes a mockery of Social Inclusion, which should be one of BW's aims.

Sue

 

It is - have a look at BW's 2006/2007 annual report, page 5!

 

Psi

[Maverick]

Boatings a mans game. Shouldn't you be in the kitchen?

 

Give em the vote and the Worlds gone bloody mad

[psi]

In that case surely the whole market system disadvantages women, not just mooring tendering? Why not write letters of complaint to Tescos and your boat builder too? I mean according to your reasoning, women are discriminated against because as lower earners they are less likely to own Rolls Royces....

 

I keep hearing that women's earnings are less than men's but I have to say I've never seen it myself. In my own experience the women I've worked with were all paid more than me, sometimes even though we were doing the same job (ok they had a higher job description, but we were doing the same job.)

 

I really think that the average 71% figure you quote is meaningless without a breakdown of how it is made up in terms of earnings brackets. For example, could it be due to a greater proportion of male high rollers at the top? Which then makes me wonder if the easy targets of male jobs and wages at the bottom end of the economic ladder are being sacrificed in an effort to compensate for the shortfall of women at the top?

 

What about discrimination against the poor in every aspect of life? It seems to me that everyone gets up in arms about discrimination against different minorities or sections of society, but when it comes to economic discrimination against the poor even liberal-minded people behave as if it's acceptable.

 

Anyway, if your letter results in BW scrapping the moorings tendering scheme then I'm a militant feminist too!

 

I completely agree with what you say about economic discrimination against the poor, and obviously the moorings tender trial discriminates against all poor people, more of whom are women - even in the UK - especially in retirement.

 

You don't have to bid the maximum you can afford and not know if it's the highest bid in order to buy a loaf of bread at Tesco's. The prices are transparent. If BW hadn't brought in the competitive tendering trial, by now I would have been on a waiting list and probably near to getting a lower priced mooring I knew I could afford because the price was fixed and transparent. With competitive tendering, I know I won't be the highest bidder.

 

The figure of 71% for women's earnings compared to men's is from the latest Department of Trade and Industry figures at the time I wrote to BW.

 

Psi

[Tusses]

Boatings a mans game. Shouldn't you be in the kitchen?

 

Give em the vote and the Worlds gone bloody mad

 

[blackrose]

I completely agree with what you say about economic discrimination against the poor, and obviously the moorings tender trial discriminates against all poor people, more of whom are women - even in the UK - especially in retirement.

 

You don't have to bid the maximum you can afford and not know if it's the highest bid in order to buy a loaf of bread at Tesco's. The prices are transparent. If BW hadn't brought in the competitive tendering trial, by now I would have been on a waiting list and probably near to getting a lower priced mooring I knew I could afford because the price was fixed and transparent. With competitive tendering, I know I won't be the highest bidder.

 

The figure of 71% for women's earnings compared to men's is from the latest Department of Trade and Industry figures at the time I wrote to BW.

 

Psi

 

Standard BW moorings rates may be transparent but they are certainly not fixed. My mooring has gone up by more than 12% in the last 2 years.

 

I agree that the new tendering scheme is completely ridiculous, but my point was that if you say that a certain section of society is being discriminated against because it earns less on average than another section of society, then it's not the bidding process itself that is discriminatory - it's the fact that some people earn more than others and those who are poorer have restricted access to purchase or rent goods or services. Therefore, irrespective of whether secret bidding is involved, if as you state more women are poorer than men, then women are being discriminated against by BW and by Tescos.

 

As I said previously, the DTI figure doesn't really tell us very much because it over-simplifies things in terms of men's earnings vs. women's without giving us any breakdown as to where exactly the inequalities lay. I daresay there are more low income muslims, blacks, working class whites, short people, ugly people, old people and handicapped people, etc, per capita than the rest of the population including middle class white women, so where does that leave us?

 

Without wishing to be complacent, unfortunately life is unfair and it's also much more complex than such average figures may suggest.

Edited May 5, 2008 by blackrose

[psi]

Standard BW moorings rates may be transparent but they are certainly not fixed. My mooring has gone up by more than 12% in the last 2 years.

 

I agree that the new tendering scheme is completely ridiculous, but my point was that if you say that a certain section of society is being discriminated against because it earns less on average than another section of society, then it's not the bidding process itself that is discriminatory - it's the fact that some people earn more than others and those who are poorer have restricted access to purchase or rent goods or services. Therefore, irrespective of whether secret bidding is involved, if as you state more women are poorer than men, then women are being discriminated against by BW and by Tescos.

 

As I said previously, the DTI figure doesn't really tell us very much because it over-simplifies things in terms of men's earnings vs. women's without giving us any breakdown as to where exactly the inequalities lay. I daresay there are more low income muslims, blacks, working class whites, short people, ugly people, old people and handicapped people, etc, per capita than the rest of the population including middle class white women, so where does that leave us?

 

Without wishing to be complacent, unfortunately life is unfair and it's also much more complex than such average figures may suggest.

 

This report gives a detailed breakdown of the pay and income gap between men and women regarding different industries, qualification levels, childcare responsibilities, working and retired, etc:-

 

http://83.137.212.42/sitearchive/eoc/PDF/w....pdf?page=15810

 

psi

[roger]

This report gives a detailed breakdown of the pay and income gap between men and women regarding different industries, qualification levels, childcare responsibilities, working and retired, etc:-

 

http://83.137.212.42/sitearchive/eoc/PDF/w....pdf?page=15810

 

psi

 

The moorings tendering scheme also breaches the DDA 1995

 

Unless there are enough of us thumping the table with regards to these issues, BW wont have to worry

[stort_mark]

I believe that the Moorings Tendering Trial breaches the Sex Discrimination Act because women are less able to make the highest bids for moorings because of their lower incomes.

 

Exactly which part of SDA 1975 does it contravene?

[blackrose]

This report gives a detailed breakdown of the pay and income gap between men and women regarding different industries, qualification levels, childcare responsibilities, working and retired, etc:-

 

http://83.137.212.42/sitearchive/eoc/PDF/w....pdf?page=15810

 

psi

 

In that case it's better to quote the document to back up your argument, rather than an average figure.

 

The Key Facts also make a couple of references to men earning more money because they worked longer hours. Call me pedantic but I can't help thinking that seems fairly reasonable...

[carlt]

The fact remains that, if mooring tenders, are discriminatory, then everything offered for sale, not offering a discount to women, is discriminatory.

 

You'd also have to offer a discount on race and age grounds, too.

[larkshall]

Well I think this whole idea is sexist.

 

Its not only women who are poorly paid, and having just been hit by the 10p tax fiasco, I@M not t all sympathetic.

 

What can I do about it?, put up with it or go get my hangmans noose.

 

In actuality, I@m told most of the wealth in the UK is directly, or indirectly owned by women

[grunders]

Surely the real discrimination happens at the employment stage. If the figures are to be believed, I suppose they show that a woman is likely to be discriminated against by an employer and be paid 29% less than her male conuterpart.

 

The tendering process isn't discriminatory as everyone uses the same system - women and men. Although this may discriminate against women in fact, this is justified as it is not the intention of BW to discriminate and allocating resources by price is a recognised method of ensuring the most efficient allocation of resources in a market economy.

[Machpoint005]

Well I think this whole idea is sexist.

 

It's not only women who are poorly paid, and having just been hit by the 10p tax fiasco, I'm not at all sympathetic.

 

What can I do about it?, put up with it or go get my hangmans noose.

 

In actuality, I'm told most of the wealth in the UK is directly, or indirectly owned by women

 

Woman

That would be Betty Windsor, then.

[Brin Morris]

Boatings a mans game. Shouldn't you be in the kitchen?

 

Give em the vote and the Worlds gone bloody mad

Why are woman being allowed to put in a tender anyway would they not need mans permission. If woman stayed at home to look after the men and children then the country would not be in such a mess. Tie them to the kitchen sink I say. (got to go the wifes just come in)

[Sir Nibble]

Can I claim discrimination 'cos professional motherhood is a career option denied to me on grounds of gender?

[blackrose]

The fact remains that, if mooring tenders, are discriminatory, then everything offered for sale, not offering a discount to women, is discriminatory.

 

You'd also have to offer a discount on race and age grounds, too.

 

Yes, that's basically what I was trying to say, although you put it more succinctly.

 

The tendering process isn't discriminatory as everyone uses the same system - women and men. Although this may discriminate against women in fact, this is justified as it is not the intention of BW to discriminate and allocating resources by price is a recognised method of ensuring the most efficient allocation of resources in a market economy.

 

Only that 'allocation' doesn't seem so efficient if you happen to be one of the people who hasn't got much money...

Edited May 7, 2008 by blackrose

[Capey]

I am guessing that the origional purpose of this message was simply to provide another way of showing how unworkable the mooring tender systme was. no self respecting woman (well someone has to respect me.....even if it is only me) would play the gender card to that extent with any seriousness.....'scuse me a moment I think Paul is burning the dinner.....oh no its OK, if this was the case we could, as stated earlier, cry discrimination on so many different grounds - but I'm not going into that now, the silly bugger cant find the iron****sigh, do I have do do everything around here??

[stort_mark]

no self respecting woman (well someone has to respect me.....even if it is only me) would play the gender card to that extent with any seriousness.....

Errrr...the original poster clearly was.