Hull Blacking!

[Mike w]

Hello everyone, I'm in the throws of buying a boat (gulp)! Both for reasons of cost and learning I want to do as much as possible myself. One thing that I assume I could do is reblack the hull and sides, the very small problem I've thought of however. Is I've NEVER done it before!

So I'd be greatfull if the more experienced out there could tell me the process. Example do you need to get all the old paint off back to bare metal, makes sence to me but would just cleaning debris etc suffice?

If I have a go myself, do boat yards hire all the equipment or do you have to provide it?

Sorry if I sound a bit thick, but you have to start somewhere! Thanks For reading. Mike

[alan_fincher]

Hi Mike,

 

You would probably be best using the "Search" facility using something like "Hull Blacking", as the subject has been done to death very many times already.

 

But briefly....

 

Unless you have a boat with appallingly badly applied blacking, or are going to pay the huge amount of money to have it grit blasted, there is no way you will ever get the whole hull back to bare metal. You can expect to go over what's there, (so the product you chose must be compatible with the existing coating).

 

A lot of people do little more preparation than high powered pressure wash. Many boatyards, slips etc will probably hire you a pressure washer that is "industrial strength" - a domestic type wouldn't get enough off.

 

Costs to have the boat blacked by someone else vary enormously across the country. If you are near somewhere quoting say £5 to £6 + VAT, it may cost little more to have it done, than to hire facilities and equipment yourself, (and your hair will not end up filled with black goo).

 

But if you are in an area where prices are nearer double that, you'll certainly save by doing your own.

 

Alan

Edited April 17, 2008 by alan_fincher

[Dylan]

Hi Mike,

 

You would probably be best using the "Search" facility using something like "Hull Blacking", as the subject has been done to death very many times already.

 

But briefly....

 

Unless you have a boat with appallingly badly applied blacking, or are going to pay the huge amount of money to have it grit blasted, there is no way you will ever get the whole hull back to bare metal. You can expect to go over what's there, (so the product you chose must be compatible with the existing coating).

 

A lot of people do little more preparation than high powered pressure wash. Many boatyards, slips etc will probably hire you a pressure washer that is "industrial strength" - a domestic type wouldn't get enough off.

 

Costs to have the boat blacked by someone else vary enormously across the country. If you are near somewhere quoting say £5 to £6 + VAT, it may cost little more to have it done, than to hire facilities and equipment yourself, (and your hair will not end up filled with black goo).

 

But if you are in an area where prices are nearer double that, you'll certainly save by doing your own.

 

Alan

I would echo everything Allan says, except the pressure washer I use a cheapo domestic one to good effect which blasts off any loose blacking and crud, but leaves sound blacking behind. The secret is to get the boat pressure washed immediately it comes out of the water. DO NOT let it dry, or you will indeed need a super high pressure washer. The small one has served me well during blacking my boat twice and a friends too. 25quid from Argos.

 

Having removed said crud and loose blacking, I coat any metal that is bare with a coat. I then go over the lot with two more coats.

 

I am probably strange, but I enjoy blacking the boat, and doing as much maintenance as possible myself. The more jobs you do yourself, the more you will know your boat, you will gain experience and confidence, and probably the more you will enjoy the boating experience.

[LEO]

Hi.

 

Blacking is important, but anodes even more so. Many have them fitted for and aft but protection zones around the anodes is small, try to fit intermediate ones as well. If this is done make sure that the overall width of the boat is not increased so as to render passage through some narrow locks difficult. One yard around Watford has stands to put the boat on to facilitate painting the bottom.

 

The water line is an area which needs particular attention.

 

I have mine blacked every 2 years, but on a previous boat left it longer with no ill effects.

 

I did notice that when I bought the boat from a fenland mooring the weed growth was much greater than normal (lush almost), this may have been due to all the fertilizers washed into the rivers in that area.

 

I am in a fairly chalky, clean water area now and water is probably more alkaline and growth is not so great.

 

ALBI

[Timleech]

Hi Mike,

 

 

Costs to have the boat blacked by someone else vary enormously across the country. If you are near somewhere quoting say £5 to £6 + VAT, it may cost little more to have it done, than to hire facilities and equipment yourself, (and your hair will not end up filled with black goo).

 

But if you are in an area where prices are nearer double that, you'll certainly save by doing your own.

 

Alan

 

Is there a nought or two missing there??

 

Tim

[Gibbo]

Is there a nought or two missing there??

 

Tim

 

Per foot?

 

Gibbo

[Timleech]

Per foot?

 

Gibbo

 

You're probably right, though I've never seen any logic in pricing blacking jobs per foot. Fixed costs make up a substantial proportion of the total, and blacking the straight sides is quick & easy compared with the bows and under the counter.

 

Tim

[PaulG]

Hello everyone, I'm in the throws of buying a boat (gulp)! Both for reasons of cost and learning I want to do as much as possible myself. One thing that I assume I could do is reblack the hull and sides, the very small problem I've thought of however. Is I've NEVER done it before!

So I'd be greatfull if the more experienced out there could tell me the process. Example do you need to get all the old paint off back to bare metal, makes sence to me but would just cleaning debris etc suffice?

If I have a go myself, do boat yards hire all the equipment or do you have to provide it?

Sorry if I sound a bit thick, but you have to start somewhere! Thanks For reading. Mike

 

I'm getting a boatyard to do mine next week.

 

It's costing £150.00 for the use of the dry dock for the week, and pressure wash and blacking comes out at about £3.50 per foot, plus VAT on the lot. That's for two coats of old fashioned bitumen. I guess that there new-fangled epoxy stuff would be more expensive, but I didn't get a cost on it.

[thenightowl]

I'm getting a boatyard to do mine next week.

 

It's costing £150.00 for the use of the dry dock for the week, and pressure wash and blacking comes out at about £3.50 per foot, plus VAT on the lot. That's for two coats of old fashioned bitumen. I guess that there new-fangled epoxy stuff would be more expensive, but I didn't get a cost on it.

 

Paul

 

Where are you having it done?

 

Regards.

 

Peter

[Machpoint005]

Mine was just over 300 squid in total (Potteries area), for a haul-out, pressure wash and two coats on a 48-footer. I was able to check the anodes (they were fine for another two years!) and I'll happily go there again in Autumn 2009. It's a no-brainer. PM me if you want a phone number.

 

Ian

[PaulG]

Paul

 

Where are you having it done?

 

Regards.

 

Peter

 

A&D Marine on the Glos & Sharpness.

[blackrose]

I would echo everything Allan says, except the pressure washer I use a cheapo domestic one to good effect which blasts off any loose blacking and crud, but leaves sound blacking behind. The secret is to get the boat pressure washed immediately it comes out of the water. DO NOT let it dry, or you will indeed need a super high pressure washer. The small one has served me well during blacking my boat twice and a friends too. 25quid from Argos.

 

That's a good tip - something I hadn't thought of before.

Edited April 18, 2008 by blackrose

[Dylan]

That's a good tip - something I hadn't thought of before.

A surveyor told me

[kingfisher]

hi mike

we have a dry dock facility (under cover) and we are blacking boats all the time .as said before power washing straight away really helps. i have just invested in the latest power washer technology wait for it a ......ceramic tipped rotary head absolutely brilliant ,it removes all loose blacking rust and and algea in one pass.leave to dry over night then next day start blacking, the waterline gets the most pitted so coat to that first

then apply a full coat same next day then leave to dry, the longer the better .bitumen paint is not really advised but better to use use the ones which are thixotropic (thicker)sealex b, rytex or intertuff.

£6.50 FT OR DIY £220 for the weekend but we will do the power wash for you on friday,being under cover you can paint all day no matter what the weather is.

wide beams and dutch barges can fit in and you may live aboard as well wait it gets better..........cwf members of 3 months or more can claim there 10% discount

[Timleech]

hi mike

we have a dry dock facility (under cover) and we are blacking boats all the time .as said before power washing straight away really helps. i have just invested in the latest power washer technology wait for it a ......ceramic tipped rotary head absolutely brilliant ,

 

Yes they're brilliant, but I've been using one for well over 10 years.

 

 

Tim

[Mike w]

Hello again all, I'm very greatfull to everyone who has responded the info is very welcome. I can now state I'm the proud owner of a 50ft narrowboat! God help us all!! I will no doubt be on regulally in the coming years to pick more brains. Thanks again.

[blackrose]

hi mike

we have a dry dock facility (under cover) and we are blacking boats all the time .as said before power washing straight away really helps. i have just invested in the latest power washer technology wait for it a ......ceramic tipped rotary head absolutely brilliant ,it removes all loose blacking rust and and algea in one pass.leave to dry over night then next day start blacking, the waterline gets the most pitted so coat to that first

then apply a full coat same next day then leave to dry, the longer the better .bitumen paint is not really advised but better to use use the ones which are thixotropic (thicker)sealex b, rytex or intertuff.

£6.50 FT OR DIY £220 for the weekend but we will do the power wash for you on friday,being under cover you can paint all day no matter what the weather is.

wide beams and dutch barges can fit in and you may live aboard as well wait it gets better..........cwf members of 3 months or more can claim there 10% discount

 

A few questions:

 

If you don't recommend bitumen based blacking then what do you recommend?

 

How does anyone manage to get their boat blacked in a weekend? Rylard Premium blacking (the diesel resistant stuff) as well as many others, require 24 hours between coats and 48 hours before going back in the water.

 

Does the ceramic tipped rotary head of the washer actually touch the hull? Is there any physical contact or is it just that the head needs to be ceramic to cope with a higher water pressure?

[magnetman]

Does anyone know how long it'd take 6mm steel to rust through if its just put in the water with a bit of black on it and never taken out til it starts leaking? I note that some mass produced boats have 6mm uxter plates while proudly advertising a '10mm bottom'. (Assume fresh water average chemical makeup. is this blacking thing a con to keep boatyards in business?)

[LEO]

MM,

 

Interesting question with lots of answers. Depends on quality of anodes, type of bank you are against - Armco etc, who, moored around you has electricity connected, whether you have a Galvanic isolator and whether you are moored in flowing water (ie river mooring) as there are indications that flowing water increases corrosion.

 

It's quite interesting to connect a Multimeter between the steel of the boat and the Armco and see if you get a reading, albeit a miniscule one.

 

Albi

[kingfisher]

A few questions:

 

If you don't recommend bitumen based blacking then what do you recommend?

 

How does anyone manage to get their boat blacked in a weekend? Rylard Premium blacking (the diesel resistant stuff) as well as many others, require 24 hours between coats and 48 hours before going back in the water.

 

Does the ceramic tipped rotary head of the washer actually touch the hull? Is there any physical contact or is it just that the head needs to be ceramic to cope with a higher water pressure?

 

 

bitumen paint or thinner blackings dont put enough microns of paint in one pass such as the other brands mentioned

premium protection is a cheaper brand but is reccommended for narrow boats

 

longer the better two coat left to dry for a week is better than 6 coats and one day drying

 

it doesnt touch the hull only the water, it forms a hollow circle of water thats cuts on the front and back edge in one pass

[Timleech]

hi mike

we have a dry dock facility (under cover) and we are blacking boats all the time .as said before power washing straight away really helps. i have just invested in the latest power washer technology wait for it a ......ceramic tipped rotary head absolutely brilliant ,it removes all loose blacking rust and and algea in one pass.leave to dry over night then next day start blacking, the waterline gets the most pitted so coat to that first

then apply a full coat same next day then leave to dry, the longer the better .bitumen paint is not really advised but better to use use the ones which are thixotropic (thicker)sealex b, rytex or intertuff.

£6.50 FT OR DIY £220 for the weekend but we will do the power wash for you on friday,being under cover you can paint all day no matter what the weather is.

wide beams and dutch barges can fit in and you may live aboard as well wait it gets better..........cwf members of 3 months or more can claim there 10% discount

 

Since others seem to be able to advertise here with impunity , something I've avoided up to now,

I'm adding a link to my price list (in Word .doc format), hope it doesn't cause offence

 

Tim

 

Dutton dock prices

[blackrose]

I note that some mass produced boats have 6mm uxter plates while proudly advertising a '10mm bottom'.

 

Boats advertised as having 10mm baseplates generally do. The baseplate is normally the thickest sheet steel on a boat because it's often unpainted and may have to take to ground. The uxter plate should never take to ground. Anyway, I've never understood why a 6mm uxter plate would be any worse than 6mm sides? Of course, ideally one would like to have a 20mm bottom and 10mm sides, but that would come to big money and you gets what you pays for...

[Chris Pink]

Does anyone know how long it'd take 6mm steel to rust through if its just put in the water with a bit of black on it and never taken out til it starts leaking? I note that some mass produced boats have 6mm uxter plates while proudly advertising a '10mm bottom'. (Assume fresh water average chemical makeup. is this blacking thing a con to keep boatyards in business?)

 

The uxter plate is the part of the older steel boats that goes first, from the mix of water and air, wet and dry that is such a wonderful fuel for rust. So really it should be at least as thick as the bottoms.

 

I don't see why it can't be made from the bit cut out of the bottom to make the swim.

[blackrose]

The uxter plate is the part of the older steel boats that goes first, from the mix of water and air, wet and dry that is such a wonderful fuel for rust. So really it should be at least as thick as the bottoms.

 

I don't see why it can't be made from the bit cut out of the bottom to make the swim.

 

Yes, I agree, the thicker the better, but my point was that the 6mm sides of the boat at the waterline are also in and out of the water the same as the uxter plate, yet nobody expects the sides to be 10mm.

[Timleech]

Yes, I agree, the thicker the better, but my point was that the 6mm sides of the boat at the waterline are also in and out of the water the same as the uxter plate, yet nobody expects the sides to be 10mm.

 

The problem with uxter plates is usually internal corrosion because of condensation or leakage lying on the top. Worst with 'cruiser' sterns.

'proper' boats have a shaped uxter, lower at the sides than the centre, which makes matters worse because water can't drain away from the edges. Same applies with 'improper' boats where the rear of the counter is lower than the front.

 

Tim